GOOD REVIEWS discussion

Kirkus has nothing to gain from giving a "less than" what we think we should get from a review....food for thought perhaps?

I beg to differ ...

Well, apart from the fee they charge to undertake the review.

Rhian wrote: "Well, apart from the fee they charge to undertake the review."

That part is sort of a "given" no?

Jaime, did you not find your critique constructive? Or did you think it was of poor quality? I've found Readers Favorite reviews, while often quite detailed, can also be cringe-worthy in their style/grammar/etc. I assumed that Kirkus, with its WAY higher price point would be higher in quality too - I've flirted with the idea, but was never quite ready to pull that expensive trigger. So I'd be interested to hear more about your experience!

J.P. wrote: "Rhian wrote: "Well, apart from the fee they charge to undertake the review."

That part is sort of a "given" no?"

I suppose low reviews may have value in that the companies can use them as a demonstration to applicants that the process is rigorous.

My point was the only thing Kirkus is gaining is their fee, whether good or bad review they still make the same amount. That's the "given." I do not believe anyone would go into a Kirkus review or any other paid review expecting to get a bad review. That would undermine the entire point of paying the exorbitant price.
Having said that, I'm not sure I understand your differing meaning between producing a bad review and giving a bad review, as I do not believe anyone would intentionally pay to have another produce a bad review.
Except of course for the purpose you have stated above. Yet this will have no benefit to the writer that is paying for the review in the first place...

JP - of course no one would intentionally pay for a poor-quality review (unless, cynically, it was to secure a good - as in positive - review). In this case, I'm not sure Jaime got either a good quality review or a good review.

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-re....

Some of Jaime's points are, I think, coloured by his emotions - but his response isn't entirely unwarranted. Even if Sonora Pass isn't a particularly good piece of work (and I have no way of telling as I haven't read it), about 60% of the Kirkus review is clunky 'and then, and then'. This, I think, is more problematic than pointing out the flaws.

People tend to respond better to criticism from a source they trust.

I am aware, by the way, of the weirdness of critiquing a critique.

Well I have to say, if I had paid that kind of money for a review, I would not have been pleased, not at all. Although in my mind I did picture the review being much worse from Jaime's initial post. Something along the lines of horrifying comes to mind. It really isn't a bad review at all, but definitely not what you expect for that kind of coin. Clunky is a very good description.

The Kirkus website makes it clear that authors who buy a review are taking a gamble. That's why they give you the choice of either publishing the review or not. I went into it with eyes open, fearing the worst, and came out with a tepid but positive review and a usable quote. https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-re... So I feel my gamble paid off. If my book had been panned of course I would have been upset, but that's the chance I took.

That said, I agree that the quality of the reviews -- mine and Jaime's -- is less than professional. And that surprised me. My reviewer didn't even notice that my protagonist is a lunatic!

I've encountered a lot of reviewers that don't get my books and stories. The nice thing about Kirkus is, even with tepid reviews, you can usually pull out a nice quote. I like the fact you can't just buy good reviews, though--otherwise it would strain their credibility.

Jill,
I looked at your review too !
Thanks for your feedback !
Speaking up is OK in America. This is not Putin country ..

Jaime wrote: "I keep getting very interesting Goodreads reviews as retribution for my KIRKUS feedback ...."

In what respect? Interesting and retribution in the same sentence, I fail to see the connection...I don't see how your KIrkus review could possibly have any correlation to future reviews....how are they related?

I had reasonably positive reviews for both my books, Tales of the Troupe and You Can Leave Anytime. Some I know were understandably disappointed when they paid for a negative review. But what good is a good review coming from a source that is paid to only publish good reviews? It undermines their credibility. And the feedback is important (although I usually get feedback earlier on from friends and my writers' group).

Hi all, Jaime has joined the group that I created so we can help each other out.

I created a group where indie authors can review each other's' ebooks.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

The approach is described on that page. I've seen some other groups for review of indie books, but I like the idea here is for us to review each other's' ebooks. I'm thinking this will have special appeal for KU authors but it can work for others too.

As I understand it, we have to be careful of review exchanges. The system that I propose can be explained as:

Author A reviews Author B's book
Author B reviews Author C's book
Author C reviews Author A's book

Reviews can be short & sweet. We each choose the book we want. If we want a free ebook, that's what we choose. If we're willing to pay something, we choose a book that has a price.

We each announce which book we're reading. Then authors pick other books. I'm willing to keep track of the reviews in terms of numbers given for each book. The more books you review, the more times that book becomes available for others to review = that's the incentive.

This process may need tweaking as we go along. That's great. I just want to get something started where we're not doing exchanges per se.

Also for those of us on Kindle Unlimited, this makes money for the author. And other authors get good reviews on Goodreads.

Good luck Diane , the reviews are a helpful tool, and the rotation works to keep things fair. I may join in soon, but right now my writing has taken over. Working my way into another story.

Best Regards,
Robert J
http://robertjbooks.com