Our Shared Shelf discussion

Q (from Christina): Akin to the dark themes in Bluebeard, women in contemporary modern society still face "imprisoning" phenomena like the proverbial glass ceiling and social typecasting. Globally, in less developed parts of the world, the picture grows even dimmer. Other than the more "momentous" events like marches and protests, what are some everyday tools, means, acts with which women can unite in a modern, effective way to break through the myth-holding meta-narratives? 

A: Dear Christina; I can say what I teach and what I do here where I am domiciled: create small groups of support and help, push for, protect, teach, act LOCALLY. The world is made like a giant clock. We can tune the gears to be in better balance in the smaller cultures we all live in. The world clock can ever be better attuned thusly. Educate people so they can know with certainty how to think clearly, how to use their wild instinctual natures to look behind things, underneath things to see what the motives truly are, to test assumptions, to find the ways through, leap like a wolf over walls set against goodness, do an end run, and throw a Hail Mary Pass, meaning, take chances. Your soul, your ever-inquiring child spirit, your goodness of mind, your sanctity of heart will ever guide you. And I know you know not to go off with someone with a beard that looks oddly blue, that will take you from your gifts and gut you. Instead, with wisdom and determination, you go toward what gives light in order to light what is not yet fully lit. Be the first, or the only, or the last one, or one of the many of great good. All shine so others can also see the ways through.


Q (from Kathy): Which female character or characters (from traditional folktales) do you believe would be the best guide for women today? Why? 

A: Dear Kathy, suddenly my fingernails grow long and my hair all white and askew [well the long white hair part is already true, lol] and I step into my mortar and pestle and row through the night seeing just what and whom needs my touch and my prayers. Baba Yaga! She would be but one. I purposely wrote Women Who Run with The Wolves in a certain pattern, with certain poems, family stories, vignettes, autobiographies and commentaries meant to flow into each other in a certain order, with stopping, resting and contemplative places in the text placed just so. I wrote each chapter and often enough each page to stand alone, so one could stop and start easily, if one wished. Thereby each heroine including those who made errors, those who willed out at the end, are all part of our individual psyches. We are the naive sister in Bluebeard until wised up, we are Vasalisa, we are the Handless Maiden, we are the Yaga, we are the Match Girl. We are made of many selves in a sense. Some become background as we learn and grow, some take the lead at different times of our lives. It is not by rote, but again, a customised endeavour. You know yourself best, and by using your wildish impulses and instincts, you know the best way/model for you.


Q (from Alisa): This is brought up as an element in the Vasalisa tale - the jealous/envious stepmother/stepsisters. Vasalisa combats this by casting off her meek nature, reclaiming her intuition and strength, and coming back with the skeleton fire. What are your suggestions for practical application? What is the best way to work with jealous, envious, verbally abusive women? Hypocritical women? How do we reach out to women that are out of touch with their inner feminine and are commandeered by the patriarchy and align with patriarchal values? In a nutshell, women that are "anti-feminist" and don't value intuition, feminine connection, and sisterhood (no matter what they identify as)? Do you think this is making reclaiming the inner feminine more difficult?

A: Dear Alisa; in my family there are many tales in which there is a jealous antagonist. Folklore is filled with them as are mythos and classical works [King Lear, McBeth, La Taviata, Carmen, just to name a few oldest works]. I would like readers to recall that we can learn much by laying aspects of our lives alongside the storyline/ leitmotifs and asking, where is this in my life, subjectively [within] and objectively [outside ourselves]. 
 
Often one will find correspondence subjectively and objectively. The subjective sense of jealousy/envy we can repair in ourselves as we see fit using not ego, but spirit and soul’s eyes to see what is best value for the wholeness of true self. The outer world may be changed also by our display of having mastered what in curanderismo we call invidia, which means a sickness of 'a twisted heart.’ Meaning our heart of understanding can often assert itself over the ego who keeps a scorecard. 
 
The heart of understanding has a larger view, what I call ‘the aerial view’, meaning seeing from all sides and from above, knowing another person has a troth with Greater [or ‘lesser values’] in ways we may never comprehend, and that sometimes ‘love and limits’ is the best we can do to preserve ourselves with some of the harmful, limiting, aspects/cultural norms/persons outside ourselves. [As you likely see in my works and in my life’s works, there can also be a time to fling oneself forward in wise plan, in full battle dress with all flags burning…Knowing the difference between love and limits and full metal jacket, is the ultimate wild consciousness]
 
Most often people’s hearts and minds are filled with love, some dammed up, and often that dam is broken open by loving ways from others. I think it is useful to remember that everyone is suffering about something, and to let each soul know, as you are called, that you want peace and health and happiness for them regarding their concerns. It can be giving a tiny gift. A little card hand written, a hand on the arm, soft eyes. A smile. We never know how we might influence others to good and better. 
 
And while saying that, too, in full awareness that some hearts twisted will not at our care, be untwisted, for any number of reasons. And to strive to plant good seed: go toward those who may be able with your ministrations over time, to soften and speak to you about their travails. For what twists the heart often and seeks to limit others, is trauma and travail. Some of us decide never to become cruel because we were treated cruelly. But some few take bitterness as their shield against further hurt. We hope to show ways to be better, not bitter. But also, there is an element of destiny in how we all react to pain/exclusion/hammering. 
 
The wild balance is in assessing each event, condition where in anyone of any gender is abusive from a base of envy and woundedness. We have to take into account our resources of patience, time, wisdom, and either go near the wounded a little, or only from time to time, or not at all for now. These assessments can change from day to day; first is to preserve one’s own spirit and not become tangled as Match Girl does in lighting matches to dream on a fantasy of ‘what could be’ 'if only'…['if only' being a wonderful phrase that tells us our hopes and dreams about many things, but also can cause us to persevere on fantasies that are not able to be made into reality, and must be left to rest until perhaps someday, somehow, there is more evidence that a transformation hoped for can take place. 
 
I could write a library about the twisted heart, for so many wounded, carry one sometimes, and it is like cutting off their heart’s circulation in a way that is terrible for them and often deleterious for others. Please allow me to just say this then before this does turn into the equivalent of a long epistle. At the end of the Vasalisa story, she is given a skull that emits fire. With this fire she can see in the dark, every and anything. This is the insightful and instinctual intuitive nature that has been restored to her as before she was a dummling believing in good where there was none, bowing to cruelty out of a sense of duty. 
 
But as she goes toward the forest toward her home, the skull grows so heavy, she thinks to throw it away. In other words, what we see when we are fully in the wild nature, can sometimes be hard to bear… such as deep wounds in some that are not yet ready to be healed and yet the person spews and spews because of the wound. That is so very hard to see, so very hard to bear…for most of us came as healers to this earth, and it is so heart aching to see wounds we cannot touch. For now. 
 
Compassion for those who still live unlit, is a requirement of all who hope to heal our world. And also strong boundaries and resistance against what seeks to harm our worlds. Knowing the difference again, differentiation, is the critical aspect the wild is expert in.
 
The balance of compassion in action and boundaries well built, is carried in each soul’s mind and heart, spirit and body, and when carrying the fiery skull of Vasalisa via the mother of all mothers, the Baba Yaga creators, we can see behind, into, underneath and beyond…the conditions each person is in…and in some cases, give the heart of compassion wrapped in a soft blanket, and in other cases, as in the Vasalisa story, burn in ourselves what does not have a heart of compassion, to ash, to a mere cinder, to be returned to the earth, to fall down into humus and start over again. 
 
The great Feminine to my knowing is a dynamic force in the universe and seeks to inhabit, as does Eros, a place in every heart. It is important to remember that much space is taken up in a heart when the heart is filled with unhealed wound. Then there is not domicile for the Feminine. But as the heart is helped and healed—not to trust others—but to trust oneself—so too, often, bit by bit, the heart can fill with the values and presence of the Wild Mother. 
 

Q (from Jacinta):  How did you get the idea or inspiration for the phrase "Dogs are the magicians of the universe"? It makes me think of all of the different interpretations people could make of it. 

A: Dear Jacinta: Farm dogs, rural dogs, but also most city dogs too, often melt the hearts even of the most closed persons. I believe canine and their magical ways come from being fierce protectors, absolute forgivers of others' trespasses, joyful greeters no matter the weathers surrounding. Dogs and wolves, as you know are family. I know Wild Woman at her best also shares in the beatific traits of the canine. 

Wowsa! No wonder she took a while to reply - this interview itself is as epic as her book!
I love it. It's so thoughtful, personal and insightful.

Big thanks to Dr. Estes!

Jo wrote: "Wowsa! No wonder she took a while to reply - this interview itself is as epic as her book!
I love it. It's so thoughtful, personal and insightful.

Big thanks to Dr. Estes!"

I totally agree, so honoured that she answered my question, and of course it took her a while, her answers are massively long.

It is very thoughtful of Dr. Estés to take the time to answer the questions and in a very deep way. Thank you so much Dr! It means a lot! Thank you Emma for post it too!

Emma wrote: "Q (from Christina): Akin to the dark themes in Bluebeard, women in contemporary modern society still face "imprisoning" phenomena like the proverbial glass ceiling and social typecasting. Globally,..."

Thank you for your effort.

Hey Emma Watson I'm your fan since childhood and I searched you in London ... when I came to visit my brother this July. And I'm sending you messages from long time on insta and goodreads I hope you will reply - Luv :D

Thank you very much dear Emma for your work ;-)

Excellent 👍🏼

There's so much depth and inner strength and wisdom and experience, Dr. Estes, that I feel like my mind's not fully comprehending your meaning. Of course, it probably doesn't help that I'm not completely awake and I have ongoing concentration issues. That being said, this is, by no means, a criticism; merely an observation, and I thank you again for your time and energy. You answered many great questions, and you seem to take immense joy and honor in doing so. The questions AND answers were insightful, penetrating, and ultimately fascinating.

The following truly resonates:

"The outer world may be changed also by our display of having mastered what in curanderismo we call invidia, which means a sickness of 'a twisted heart.’ "

I'd never heard the word "invidia" before, and I'm taken by it, which goes back to my obsession with words. Etymology. The written word, transcribed from millennia ago; written down on paper or a Word document.

Emma wrote: "Dustin wrote: "There's so much depth and inner strength and wisdom and experience, Dr. Estes, that I feel like my mind's not fully comprehending your meaning. Of course, it probably doesn't help th..."

I saved it so I'd remember it.:))