The Sword and Laser discussion

For tv and movies I think the worst character is without a doubt Neelix from Star Trek Voyager, he makes Jar Jar Binks look like Han Solo. He broke a spaceship by cooking cheese and he convinced the captain to fix a machine that gives people PTSD and ruins their lives because he thinks thats what the creators of the machine wanted WTF! I hate him so much

For novels I think the worst character is Zack from the Strain. He is a 11 year old kid that gets kidnapped by a master vampire (who has caused the apocalypse and has killed literally billions of people). While the world is going to hell he plays video games (no new ones because every game developer is dead) and kills animals in the zoo. In the tv show he activates a nuclear bomb making the apocalypse even worse, I know he's meant to be a horrible character but wow what little POS.

Zach and JarJar are definitely up there, hell JarJar is the number one offender. I really disliked Dr. Lauren on Lost Girl. Really disliked. Then there was Carl on TWD. Oooh, really hated that kid.

Christos wrote: "For tv and movies I think the worst character is without a doubt Neelix from Star Trek Voyager, he makes Jar Jar Binks look like Han Solo. He broke a spaceship by cooking cheese and he convinced th..."

I'm not a big fan of Neelix, but Jar Jar is way worse. Wasn't it he who convinced the senete to give Palpatine emergency power or something?

Viola wrote: "I'm not a big fan of Neelix, but Jar Jar is way worse. Wasn't it he who convinced the senete to give Palpatine emergency power or something? "

Say what you will about Jar Jar Binks but at least when George Lucas found out everyone hated him he made him a smaller part of the trilogy until the end. Lucas didn't say"oh everyone hates Jar Jar, well screw you I am going to shove him your face every chance I get so you hate him even more now he's the main character in every movie". That's exactly what the geniuses who wrote Voyager did they put him in every episode to annoy people even more. In one episode he had one job which is not to scare the children while the ship is being attacked by a monster and the whole episode was him scaring the children with a monster story,

Anakin in Episode II and III was pretty awful.

I think and know a lot would say Thomas Covenant just from what he did in the beginning.

Pretty much every character in Game of Thrones besides Tyrion and Jon Snow, tbh.

Nick wrote: "Anakin in Episode II and III was pretty awful."

Prequel-Anakin pretty much ruins the OT. After seeing him slaughter a bunch of four year olds, why are we supposed to give a crap whether Luke "redeems" him? He went from a brutal warlord who stood aside while the Emperor and Tarkin did truly evil things, but personally never did anything worse than kill people in battle, choke his own incompetent subordinates, and freeze-dry an occasional smuggler, to a complete raging psychopath. But he gets a smiling Force ghost at the end Jedi? What about the Younglings, George? What about the Sandpeople? What do they get?

And that's not even getting into how the "romance" with Padme is only believable if you assume Anakin was using the Force whammy to control her.

Nick wrote: "Anakin in Episode II and III was pretty awful."

Donaldson upped his horrible character game with Angus Thermopylae

Captain Pavel Young from the Honor Harrington series is about as foul as they come.

Sean wrote: "Nick wrote: "Anakin in Episode II and III was pretty awful."

Prequel-Anakin pretty much ruins the OT. After seeing him slaughter a bunch of four year olds, why are we supposed to give a crap wheth..."

Spot on! Those inconsistencies ruined the storyline. The sad thing is those movies made a lot of money

Another character that annoys me is Alfrid from the horrible Hobbit movies. He made me miss the subtle acting of Jar Jar Binks too.

Lena wrote: "Zach and JarJar are definitely up there, hell JarJar is the number one offender. I really disliked Dr. Lauren on Lost Girl. Really disliked. Then there was Carl on TWD. Oooh, really hated that kid."

I hate comic book Carl. I like TV Carl.

Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

The Dragonlance books are largely why I love fantasy. They were the first series I got into after the obligatory LoTR so many of us got hooked on. But even as a teen back in the 80's I found Tasslehoff grating.

Then I didn't read any Dragonlance for at least 20 years. This week I decided to start again to see if it held up. Uggh, Tasslehoff was Jar Jar Binks before Jar Jar existed.

Rik wrote: "Tasslehoff Burrfoot."

Disagree. Wholeheartedly. Tasslehoff Burrfoot is actually one of my favorite characters, he's so irrepressible and indisputably who he is, no apologies, and optimistic even when scared.

I may have a sweet spot for the Dragonlance books though as they were my introduction to fantasy rather than LoTR.

Nevada wrote: "Disagree. Wholeheartedly. Tasslehoff Burrfoot is actually one of my favorite characters, he's so irrepressible and indisputably who he is, no apologies, and optimistic even when scared.
I may have a sweet spot for the Dragonlance books though as they were my introduction to fantasy rather than LoTR. "

Absolutely. I had read dozens of Dragonlance novels before I read any Tolkien and Tas is still my favorite character in the series (the gnomes were fun too, but rarely so central).

I have to say Thomas Covenant. The man raped a woman, and I'm supposed to empathize and root for him as a protagonist?! I didn't finish The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant after that, nor read anything further by Stephen R. Donaldson.

Rik wrote: "Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

The Dragonlance books are largely why I love fantasy. They were the first series I got into after the obligatory LoTR so many of us got hooked on. But even as a teen back in t..."

NOooooo....

Terez wrote: "I have to say Thomas Covenant. The man raped a woman, and I'm supposed to empathize and root for him as a protagonist?! I didn't finish The Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant after that, nor read anyth..."

Its a tough sell for sure. I haven't read the books in a long time but as I recall the rest of the series is Covenant coming to accept the evil he'd done and trying to atone.

But it doesn't even come close to what Donaldson wrote in his Gap series. The first book is basically one long torture / rape fantasy where the female protagonist is repeatedly raped and brutalized. Then in the second book she falls victim to yet another rapist. Its all meant to toughen her up and make her the hero she needs to be. And by the end of the series the rapist from the first book is repurposed into some sort of anti hero. Yet as disgusting as all that is, there is otherwise some fantastic storytelling and sci fi writing in the series. Its just so hard to stomach Donaldson's apparent rape fantasies.

I would recommend his Mirror series (I know thats not the correct name but its how I remember it). The first book is called Mirror of her Dreams. No rape, rapists, or other creepy protagonists. Just great fantasy and fairly unique magic system (all based on mirrors) and some great writing .

Nevada wrote: "Tasslehoff Burrfoot is actually one of my favorite characters, he's so irrepressible and indisputably who he is, no apologies..."

Same. Tas was great.

Bad characters... Hmmm: Haven't read much fantasty in the past few years. SF? Lynn Minmei in Robotech.

IIrc she was slightly better written in the novelilzations, but it still wasn't great. But she is sort of central to a couple of the main themes of the series, love and beauty can overcome all, being the main one.

Seems I'm in the minority on Jar Jar Tasslehoff.

I just finished the first Dragonlance book (it doesn't hold up well some 20 years later so I'm struggling through it whereas I can remember reading them in a single day as a teen I was so engrossed). He's too much of a Deus Ex Machina plot device who happens to stumble upon some fantastical contraption that just conveniently provides the party a way to win the battle.

I've started the second book but I'm less than motivated to continue. Largely because I know he survives through the main series. I was so disappointed some 15 years or so ago when I read the followup trilogy and so many of the characters I did like died but Tasslehoff didn't.

I'll probably continue simply because Raistlin was always my favorite character and I want to get through the Twins trilogy.

David - Prometheus/Alien: Covenant
Cersei Lannister - GoT
Aelin Galathynius - Throne of Glass

I'm sure there are more, I just can't think of them right now.

I absolutely loathe Joffrey Baratheon from the Song of Ice and Fire. He's arrogant, sadistic, and hedonistic - without any redeeming characteristics. In a series of books that contain many repulsive characters, he rising to the top.

When it comes to movies, I hate Denethor from the adaptation of The Lord of the Rings. Oddly, I empathized with him quite a bit in the books, but the films strip away his honor and sense of duty, leaving cowardice masquerading as sneering righteousness.

I also cannot help but mention Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter series. She made me so angry that I had to set the books aside a couple of times to collect myself.

Oh come on, no votes for Howard from Howard the Duck??

Lol, I loved that movie as a kid. I wanted Lea Thompson's hair so bad.

Rick wrote: "Oh come on, no votes for Howard from Howard the Duck??"

He's not bad, he's just trapped in a world he never made.

Better be nice, or he will use his Quack Fu on YOU!

Phil wrote: "Rick wrote: "Oh come on, no votes for Howard from Howard the Duck??"

He's not bad, he's just trapped in a world he never made."

OH.MY.GOD.... ITS ALL COMING BACK. MAKE IT STOP.

I blame this on Willow. *goat voice* Wiiillllloooowwwww youuuuu idioooooooottt......