You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

September's themed read is "Historical Fiction of a real person". See What I Have Done is based on the life of Lizzie Borden. If anyone is interested in reading and discussing, we can use it as an alternate themed read. It's not intended to replace the selected themed reads, just an option. I will also be counting it towards my 2017 new release challenge.

I already have the book and would be able to start the beginning of September. Does anyone have any preferences?

I'm happy to start at the beginning of September too Janice.

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it's one of the off topic chats. I was looking forward to seeing some pictures of home-made quilts :))

LOL Kirila, I thought exactly the same! I expected posts about clumsy/silly things that happen to all of us, like locking yourself out of the house or making a remark to someone that immediately makes you wish the earth would swallow you up.

The book sounds interesting! I've added it to my wishlist but won't be reading it in September. I've never heard of Lizzie Borden before. I'm super curious now and want to google but I also don't want to know.

I saw the movie of Lizzie Borden. I like to start too. The beginning of September is fine.

I'm away on holiday for the first few days of September, but I could start once I'm back. I get back on the 4th.

Let's start Sep 4th then. That's a Monday.

Sounds good to me. Looking forward to it!

That sounds good to me too. I think this is shaping up to be a really enjoyable buddy read.

Sounds good to me too. I've reservated a copy of the book in the library.

Is it possible to do both: the September theme thread and this one? Because I'm making my reading schedule.

Saar wrote: "Is it possible to do both: the September theme thread and this one? Because I'm making my reading schedule."

Of course it is! Read as many books for the buddy reads, theme reads and challenges as you would like.

Okay, thank you.

Saar, we can discuss it here and then when we report that we've read a book in the theme, we need to reference that we discussed it here in the buddy read.

Is everyone ready to start the book tomorrow? I may start it today if I finish the short story on my TBR.

It will be tomorrow or the day after that. I've got my copy since yesterday.

I started reading last night and I think I'm going to enjoy it. I've been pulled into the story so far.

I'm in Part 1 - Lizzy: (view spoiler)[ she sounds quite demented. Either that, or she's in extreme shock. When others were loath to look at the body, she was quite dispassionate about it, possibly even fascinated by it. So far, they've only discovered her father's body, and there's talk of finding her stepmother to inform her of the murder. (hide spoiler)]

I only got back from Scotland last night so I haven't started yet. I will probably pick it up later today.

Part 1 - Emma: (view spoiler)[This chapter sets up the resentment (and yet the love) that Emma feels towards Lizzy. (hide spoiler)]

Part 1 - Bridget - (view spoiler)[This is a spunky girl, to leave Ireland and come to America on her own. It's interesting to hear her perspective on the family. Lizzy is certainly being portrayed as a spoiled brat by both Emma and Bridget. (hide spoiler)]

I'm in Part 2, Chapter 11 - Bridget

(view spoiler)[ The author is really making a case for an outside party being the killer. Could the brother-in-law have hired someone to teach Andrew a lesson? But he blanks out and doesn't recall the murders. That doesn't mean that he didn't do them. (hide spoiler)]

I'm not really enjoying the narrators of the audiobook. I can bear with it though.

I have started and have just completed the first chapter.

Janice, (view spoiler)[I had the exact same thoughts as you about Lizzie. Her reaction to her father's murder is decidedly odd. Is it shock? Or is it guilt? I also found it quite chilling how her stomach grumbled whenever she looked at her father's body. You would think she would feel sick, not hungry. It's all very strange. (hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed the first chapter, although I think the writing style may take a bit of getting used to. I also think I am going to have to google the real life case as I am quite unfamiliar with it. I have heard of it, but I don't really know much in the way of details.

Lisa, re your spoiler - (view spoiler)[it certainly is a strange reaction. It was midday, so it's possible that she was hungry, but you would think the gore and shock would dissipate any hunger feelings. Or, perhaps she was misinterpreting her body's reaction. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 12 Benjamin - (view spoiler)[ It's clear that he and John had plans to confront Andrew, possibly even kill him. John clearly thinks that Benjamin killed them both, but he claims otherwise. Yet, he's walking around with the axe head.

Very creepy man, sneaking around the house while everyone sleeps. Creepy too that John was sleeping in Andrew's bed. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 13 Lizzie - (view spoiler)[ How did she get a piece of bone in her hair? I keep wavering between Lizzie and Benjamin being the killer. (hide spoiler)]

I'm up to Chapter 4, Part 1 (Benjamin).

(view spoiler)[Emma and Lizzie have a bit of an odd relationship. There seems to be love between them, but also a fair amount of jealousy and resentment. Emma seems to think that Lizzie is the favoured one, who always manages to get what she wants and do what she wants. And if she doesn't, she seems to know how to manipulate people to get her way.

Bridget is probably my favourite character so far. She certainly seems the most normal anyway. I feel for her being trapped in a situation that she doesn't really want to be in. I'm not surprised she wants to leave, Lizzie, Mr. Borden and Mrs. Borden are all very strange. Lizzie comes across as very childlike, I often forget that she is a grown woman and not a child. Mr. Borden appears to have a cruel streak in him and as for Mrs. Borden, what to make of her? Why was she punching herself in the stomach? Is she pregnant and trying to get rid of it because she doesn't want it? Why is she so desperate to make Bridget stay? (hide spoiler)]

I don't know what to make of the book so far. I am finding it interesting enough to want to keep reading on but at the same time, I'm finding it difficult to become emotionally invested in it. It doesn't help that so many of the characters are unlikeable. We are probably not meant to like them, but I would like to feel a bit more connected to them than I currently am.

Lisa wrote: "I'm up to Chapter 4, Part 1 (Benjamin)...."

I agree with your comments about Lizzie and Emma - (view spoiler)[ Emma does sound very resentful of Lizzie. She was kind of forced to be a parent to Lizzie after their mother died, and her father did seem to favour Lizzie and give in to her whims. Lizzie was 32 at the time of the murders, but she does sound childlike. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book yesterday. I found the events to be presented in such a way that the whole thing felt disjointed to me. I listened to the audiobook and there were 3 narrators, none of which did a bang up job in my estimation.

Don't read spoilers until you're done the book.

Lizzie - (view spoiler)[I wanted the author to give more evidence as to why she thought Lizzie was the murderer. I didn't like the way she presented her conclusion. I've read The Cases That Haunt Us, written by a prominent serial killer profiler. He believes that she likely did kill her parents. There's another book, Lizzie Didn't Do It!, written by a college professor using modern forensic techniques that I want to read. He maintains that she didn't (hence the title). It will be interesting to get different perspectives. (hide spoiler)]

Emma - (view spoiler)[ I didn't get much of a feel for her other than the resentment she felt for Lizzie. (hide spoiler)]

Bridget - (view spoiler)[ She seemed to be the most relatable character. She had motive too, and some believe that she may have been the murderer, or at least an accomplice. There is an account of a deathbed confession saying that she lied to protect Lizzie. (hide spoiler)]

Benjamin - (view spoiler)[ This is the first account I've read in which this character appeared. I think it's a construct of the author and not verifiable with the historical account.

ETA - I just read the preview to "Lizzie Didn't Do It", and apparently, one of the newspapers reported that a nearby farmer heard "Poor Mrs Borden" coming from the trees. When he investigated, there was a hobo-like looking man wearing bloodied clothing and holding a hatchet. He brandished the hatchet at the farmer, then jumped over the wall. No evidence of this man was found. Perhaps the author included this account as part of the story. (hide spoiler)]

Uncle John - (view spoiler)[ I wonder about him and why he wasn't more of a suspect. Abby died in the guest room where he was staying. Why does he appear after years away, and they are dead the next morning? This book made him appear to be a slimy character.

ETA - Apparently, he had an alibi. He was visiting a niece that lived a mile away at the time of the murders. The book said that he was acting strange. He'd been invited to join Andrew for lunch, yet ate 2 pears just prior to arriving back at the Bordens just before this lunch date. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I was disappointed in the book. I felt like the author approached the crime as a murder mystery rather than the novelization of the events.

Janice, I agree about it feeling disjointed. It just doesn't flow and it's hard to keep track of the time jumps, particularly when they occur in the middle of a paragraph. I'm reading a physical copy and am finding it confusing, so I'm guessing it must have been even harder listening to the audiobook?

There were a couple of times that I was confused. It probably wasn't any more disconcerting than in print format.

I read the preview to Lizzie Didn't Do It!, and had to make some adjustments to my speculations in message 27. The preview outlined the events of Aug 4th based on factual records of the case.

Janice wrote: "There were a couple of times that I was confused. It probably wasn't any more disconcerting than in print format."

Glad it wasn't too confusing, Janice.

I've started reading this evening and I have a weird feeling about the book. I can't connect with the book at this moment, but maybe it's because I'm just starting to read it and I'm comparing with the movie.

There's one thing about Lizzie:
(view spoiler)[It looks like she's in shock, the way she act or in some PTSS - shock. But at the other hand, you already know that she (might) done it. (hide spoiler)]

Saar wrote: "I've started reading this evening and I have a weird feeling about the book. I can't connect with the book at this moment, but maybe it's because I'm just starting to read it and I'm comparing with..."

I'm struggling to connect with it too, Saar.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Saar wrote: "I've started reading this evening and I have a weird feeling about the book. I can't connect with the book at this moment, but maybe it's because I'm just starting to read it and I'm comparing with..."

There definitely is a disconnect, Saar.

Re: Lizzie (view spoiler)[ She sounded either demented or in shock. Legend is that she killed her parents, so it's easy to lean towards demented. But, it was never proven that she did which makes you wonder if it was shock. I think the author did a good job of putting that doubt in our minds. (hide spoiler)]

Thank you, Janice. I saw the movie too, but (view spoiler)[I think with demented, you mean psychotic? I can follow you in that idea. (hide spoiler)]

Saar wrote: "Thank you, Janice. I saw the movie too, but [spoilers removed]"

Yes, they are synonyms of each other.

Ow, okay, because the word you used, has another meaning around here, so I had to look it up. But I keep learning!

I've finished part 1, but I found:

(view spoiler)[Lizzie: childish in her thoughts. I have the feeling, when I'm reading her part, her thoughts are all over the places and sometimes you can read between the lines that she admit to having commit the murders, I think. I asked myself what the reason was that the relationship between Mrs. Borden and the girls changed.

Bridget: she needed to left when she had the chance. I think that Mrs. Borden became to depended on her.

Benjamin: I can't remember him in the movie? (hide spoiler)]

Saar wrote: "I've finished part 1, but I found:..."

re: Benjamin - (view spoiler)[I'm not sure if there is a historical background to this character, but I had never heard of him before. (hide spoiler)]

Sorry folks, I am going to have to abandon ship. I am not enjoying this book at all, it's not working for me on any level. I have been trying to force myself through it but I have now decided enough is enough. On to the DNF pile it goes.

There's no point in forcing yourself to read something you aren't enjoying.

I was almost halfway the book and then I stopped. I couldn't connect with the story. It was interesting, but not interesting enough.

I'm reading The Borden Murders: Lizzie Borden and the Trial of the Century which is non-fiction and it's easy to see how biased Schmidt was in her novel.

OK, so I got about 50 pages in and wasn't gelling with this book. I'm not sure if it is the writing style or the actual story. Perhaps I am just not in the mood for it. Ah well, I will never say never but just not today!

It didn't seem to be a hit with any of us.