Support for Indie Authors discussion

CreateSpace offers 60% royalties for its soft cover books, not sure what IngramSpark will offer, but their distribution is wider. I know I will get a hardcover with IngramSpark it's just the softcover I'm wondering about. What are your thoughts. Thanks. (Sorry in advance if this topic has already been covered in another thread. I didn't see it.)

Why would you do the hardcover with Ingram consider going elsewhere for the soft? It's easier to manage on one platform, I think.

Dylan wrote: "Why would you do the hardcover with Ingram consider going elsewhere for the soft? It's easier to manage on one platform, I think."

Hum. Good idea. Maybe I should just go with Ingram for everything. It's a children's picture book and needs to be in hard cover. I'm not even sure soft cover is a good idea because as a teacher I prefer hard cover. You've given me pause to think. Thanks.

I have all my books on Createspace and Ingram. Ingram has soft cover and hardcover for all titles. Createspace has the soft cover for all titles. I have the expanded distribution turned off on Createspace, and let Ingram do all the expanded distribution for both titles.

Once you set them all up, they take care of themselves, not much of a hassle to have multiple platforms.

Createspace distribution is limited even selecting the extended distribution channel (EDC). The book will only be sold on Amazon websites. The EDC distribution is restricted to book retailers in the US.

To reach the international market for book retailers and wholesalers, you need to use IngramSpark.

If I were to switch from CreateSpace to Ingram, what would the process be? Would I have to "unpublished" my novels from CreateSpace?

Is the formatting the same for the interior? If I want hardback, would the cover I had designed for a softback book work?

My main concerns is in the legal sense.

I know how CreateSpace works, but I don't know how Ingram works. Is it moderately the same?

I know, I'm very needy lol

Did you buy your ISBN or did you use the free one from Createspace? Also, did you use Createspace's Cover Template to design your cover? The answer to those two questions will make difference on your options.

Paperback: You can use the same interior, but the cover would have to be redesigned. IngramSpark has a different formula for calculating spine width for a paperback.

Hardback: you can use the same interior but the cover would have to be redesigned. The dimensions for a hardback cover are different than for a paperback cover. IngramSpark has two options: laminated or dust cover.

I used Createspace because it's an Amazon company. But I decided to forego all of their (very expensive) author services in favour of hiring freelancers (editing, cover design, interior formatting, etc).

How much does it cost to upload a paperback book to Ingram Spark?

Thanks, John!

Anita wrote: "Did you buy your ISBN or did you use the free one from Createspace? Also, did you use Createspace's Cover Template to design your cover? The answer to those two questions will make difference on yo..."

Ah, that's an answer I was looking for. Thanks! I might look into Ingram for my next book. I hired a cover artist for my covers, and I can't afford to re-do them right now.

I used the free ISBNs, so. So... I'd be looking an a new edition to the book, basically?

Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in the beginning.

B.B. wrote: "Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in the beginning."
Unlike Createspace, Ingram has setup fees and additional fees every time you make changes. There are other advantages to Ingram, however: hardcover editions and making books returnable being a couple of them.

Ben wrote: "I have all my books on Createspace and Ingram. Ingram has soft cover and hardcover for all titles. Createspace has the soft cover for all titles. I have the expanded distribution turned off on Crea..."

I didn't know you could have your book in both places. I have one on IngramSpark and two on CreateSpace. Since I purchase my own ISBN's, CreateSpace doesn't allow for Expanded Distribution so I'm trying to migrate all my books to IngramSpark. But, if I can have them on both that would be the best of both worlds!!

I think 🤔 Ingram can handle everything. Your books will be on Amazon in whatever form you like. At least I hope so because I’m just going with Ingram.

The past few days though I’ve been a bit disappointed as ingram has not gotten back to me in a timely fashion.

I was Columbus Day but still if they’re not there they should send a message saying they are on a holiday and will get back. I see today some messages from them but it’s Thursday! 🙃

Overall I’ve been happy with them until now and I will tell them about my disappointment.

B.B. wrote: "Anita wrote: "Did you buy your ISBN or did you use the free one from Createspace? Also, did you use Createspace's Cover Template to design your cover? The answer to those two questions will make di..."

1st option--Per Createspace, you can unpublish the book, in essence retire the ID # that is linked to the free ISBN. Republish, using the same files, interior PDF and cover PDF with a new ISBN. Your choice then becomes whether to purchase the $99 ISBN from Createspace which gives you all the distribution rights that a purchase direct from Bowker provides, or purchase a block of 10 from Bowker. This is usually $295, but they do run sales at $250. This would allow you to distribute the book through Amazon.

2nd option--Unpublish with Createspace, but don't reload with them. Buy a block of numbers from Bowker. Use IngramSpark
who will distribute the book to Amazon.

Ingram charges $85 per ISBN BUT you're better off in bulk. :-)

Ken wrote: "B.B. wrote: "Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in the beginning...."

The fee is $49 for each title setup. Ingram is running a free title setup until November 31st. Use the promo code INDIEFRINGE17 (all upper case). If you place an order for 50 books within 60 days, the title fee will be applied to your order.

Once the book has been published, they do charge for a reload. Its $25 per title for a reload. However, if the book has not been published and you spot something in your proof file, there is not a charge for the reload.

Anita wrote: "Ken wrote: "B.B. wrote: "Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in th..."

B.B. wrote: "Anita wrote: "Did you buy your ISBN or did you use the free one from Createspace? Also, did you use Createspace's Cover Template to design your cover? The answer to those two questions will make di..."

Buy your own ISBNs from Bowker. Createspace ISBNs show Createspace as the publisher and few bookstores want to order from their arch-nemesis, the big "A". Spark often offers discount codes and they will also get you into the primary catalog used by bookstores, so despite the slight additional cost, it's worth it. Nothing prevents you from uploading the same book directly to Createspace, just use your own ISBN. Good Luck!

Ingram sounds more professional. Since I self-published, I get the feeling that people stay away from books on Amazon because of the self-published flood. Free is nice, but... also not nice. It's a double-edged sword.

So... another question. For soft covers, could I use the same 9x6 cover that I'm using on CreateSpace? If both books were the same size and dimensions, I could use the same cover, correct?

I don't want to unpublish from CreateSpace and then screw myself over trying to upload into Ingram, which is why I'm asking so many questions! (You're all being very helpful!)

B.B. wrote: "Ingram sounds more professional. Since I self-published, I get the feeling that people stay away from books on Amazon because of the self-published flood. Free is nice, but... also not nice. It's a..."

No, you cannot use the same cover. Ingramspark (IS) has a different formula for calculating spine width. As an example, the spine width for a 300 page book on white paper from CS is 0.676.

300 pages on white paper from IS puts the spine width at 0.629. The width of the cover will have to be redesigned for IS.

And I know from practical experience that if the cover size is not correct, they will reject it. Their instructions are not the best. My first hardback cover was rejected because I failed to add another .125 to all sides to compensate for the wraparound on the edges.

I'm publishing a book with a full-cover interior. What is your experience with the quality of CreateSpace full-color books?

Christine,
CS delivers with lightning speed in Europe.
I feel that in the days of "click and buy" people want their books quickly. Naturally, I appreciate every paperback book sale and indeed sell quite a few paperback book in the UK.
Hence my choice is clear - it's CS.

I did an illustrated, full cover interior children's book for another author. The book is loaded through both Createspace and IngramSpark (IS). With IS, you need to select the #70 paper weight option. Their #50 pound paperweight is a bit too thin for colored illustrations. Price for the book is a bit cheaper with IS, but the color print in my opinion is better with CS.

I can't stress enough, how many headaches I have with Ingram. There slow to respond to any emails, if not downright rude. They just hiked up all their print costs, while dropping the royalty amount. They distribute the books across different platforms, but the books either go out slow, fast or appear with missing details, covers etc.

Sure, CreateSpace isn't perfect, but at least they respond fast and try to help solve problems. I just waited 9 days for a reply email from Ingram.

If you want to change anything about your books, you'll either need to pay per change or wait for a promotion on Ingram.

They posted me 100 books which never showed up, even though I had selected the second most expensive post option, they couldn't track it. They tried to charge me full price to order all the books again, including postage. It took me 2 weeks to get them down to just paying the postage.

So CS for ebook and soft cover, IS for the hard cover? It’s a children’s picture book.

Ben Have you tried to call IS? I have abd though it’s s long wait they do respond.

Ben wrote: "They posted me 100 books which never showed up, even though I had selected the second most expensive post option, they couldn't track it. They tried to charge me full price to order all the books a..."
I'm sorry you had so much trouble with IS. I've noticed that if they can't answer they don't send an email. They seem to ignore the questions that are challenging to research. I just call them and bug them. Ha! I have the time though to wait on the phone for them to respond. I thank you for sharing as you have compelled me to go with CS for the paperback. I've learned so much from everyone here! This is such a great forum!

Hi:
A few things I noticed about Createspace. They are helpful on the phone, even though you may have to call twice.
They do not charge for multiple downloads of your mss.
You can get a larger royalty if you use their eStore.
Pauline

We seem to have drifted away from the original question, which has brought out several helpful connected experiences. But to go back to the question 'IngramSpark or Createspace' ......

When we published my wife Ingrid's (nonfiction, biography/memoir) book, I researched this question in a little depth and ended up publishing with both IngramSpark and Createspace, which seemed to be the accepted wisdom from the sources I researched. This was more complicated, but probably worthwhile, because:
- Bookstores are less likely to accept a Createspace book, especially with an ISBN provided by Amazon. Bookstore sales have been small in number and we recognised that Createspace would probably always produce more sales, but we wanted to have the option to promote to bookstores.
- In the other direction, Amazon seem to have a negative attitude to books published at Ingram and I think some of the promotional options are only available for Createspace (and now Kindle paperback) books.
- Publishing at Ingram gets you into the book industry's information system (managed by Nielsen in the UK), so the book is notified to all bookstores. This doesn't mean they will stock it (probably not, in fact, unless you are a well known author or celebrity), but if someone goes into a bookstore and asks for it, it's in the system and can be ordered. There are still plenty of people out there who don't like the idea of Amazon taking over the world.
- Ingram's $49 upload fee is refunded if you buy 50+ copies and frequently waived for a month or so several times a year in connection with book fairs (notified through the Alliance of Independent Authors).
- Ingram seems a better option for buying books in quantity. We ordered 100 copies for personal sale, as that was where a reasonable discount kicked in, and the upload fee was waived. When they had sold, we ordered a further 250 copies (5 years supply?! :-) ) which was the cut-off for a very worthwhile discount.
- Although we didn't create a hardback version, the option to do so is a bonus at Ingram.

Other comments:
- We bought ten ISBNs from Nielsen (the UK supplier) and used the same ISBN for the paperback book on IS and Amazon.
- The upload system at Ingram is less user-friendly than at Createspace, but not really hard to master.
- Ingrid's cover designer had no difficulty making the minor modifications to the cover file to cater for the slightly different requirements of Ingram and Createspace. From memory, I think he may even have said that he built the cover for Ingram according to their requirement using InDesign and then uploaded the same file to Createspace without difficulty. But I'm not sure about that.
- Customer support is not as responsive at Ingram as at Createspace, but seems to be improving.
- Although Amazon print POD in UK and elsewhere, the proofs are printed in the USA, so getting a Createspace proof to Britain was slow and cost a bomb by courier. It would have been easier and less expensive to hit the 'publish' button at Createspace and order a copy. using Amazon Prime, which is what we did with a second (corrected) proof. It arrived on Sunday morning after we had hit 'publish' on Saturday afternoon.
- We enjoyed attending one of the occasional open days at the Ingram/Lightning Source printing works at Milton Keynes - watching different book covers coming off the same colour printer on a continuous roll of paper in quantities from one to a hundred or more, being united with the printed interior, glued and cut to size in a guillotine into which you would not want to put your hand.

This was our experience, and of course some of these points have been covered in earlier posts. I would certainly use both Ingram and Createspace in parallel again.

Hope it helps!

Peter Dixon

Peter wrote: "We seem to have drifted away from the original question, which has brought out several helpful connected experiences. But to go back to the question 'IngramSpark or Createspace' ......

When we pub..." I'm confused, can you create a soft cover with both? If so, is it the same ISBN? Thanks Christine

Yes, you can create a soft cover for both. If you own the ISBN, the same number that was used for Createspace is used for IngramSpark. Many authors use a combination of both companies to provide a wider distribution.

I wrote an article that deals with print distribution titled Around the World: Print Distribution. It was published in my column in the October issue of Indie Authors Monthly magazine and is also available on my website under the heading ON THE HUNT. This will help answer some of your questions.

Anita wrote: "Yes, you can create a soft cover for both. If you own the ISBN, the same number that was used for Createspace is used for IngramSpark. Many authors use a combination of both companies to provide a ..."
Anita Could you message me the link?? I’m not sure we’re allowed links here, are we Christina? And what about the ebook, can we do both IS and Createspace? Thanks so much!!!

I do softcover on both CreateSpace and Ingram Spark. Hardcover on Ingram, and ebooks on Kindle. Seems to be working okay, Ingram costs more to print and charges more for printing costs, which equal less royalties.

It depends where you wish to distribute.

I used CS for my first paperback. It was user friendly, and charged reasonably for printing costs. They have helpful templates.
HOWEVER, I'm in the UK and soon learned that bookstores aren't able to stock my books as there's no UK distributor.

So, I've now gone with IngramSpark for my latest. I really want to get into Waterstones, and this at least gives me a chance.
Their costs seem higher, but this is due to their wholesaler discount allowance. This is a big clue - big chains will at least have the opportunity to stock you this way.
My CS template for the content was happily compatible, as they don't offer one btw.

Also, I bought my own ISBNs, so I control who can print what.

Hope this helps.

I printed soft covers with both CS and IS and the only difference I see is that IS prints darker ink. I order from CS because they respond w/in 24 hours and want to please their clients.

Can you do the ebook on both CS and IS?

Ken wrote: "B.B. wrote: "Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in the beginning...."

I planned to use Ingramspark for extended distribution but I've recently heard a number of horror stories about their returns policy - authors having to pay thousands when bookstores return their books. Has anyone on here had this problem?
Anyone choose not to offer returns via Ingram (I believe we can choose whether to allow this service or not but turning it off will mean a lot of bookstores won't order the book).

Hayley wrote: "Ken wrote: "B.B. wrote: "Does Ingram operate the same way as CreateSpace? As in, would I be able to do it all for free at the start and share the royalties? That's what drew me to CreateSpace in th..."

I chose return and destroy. As I understand it, you don't pay for anything when you choose that option.

T.L. wrote: "It depends where you wish to distribute.

I used CS for my first paperback. It was user friendly, and charged reasonably for printing costs. They have helpful templates.
HOWEVER, I'm in the UK an..."

An article on Waterstones and Nielsen Title Editor is in the November issue of Indie Authors Monthly magazine. It has useful information on UK distribution. There is also one in the October issue that compares the print distribution for IngramSpark and Createspace. If someone is interested, please pm me and I will provide the links to the websites where the articles appear.

I've used Ingram's LightningSource since I began publishing, about 4 years ago. At the time I was trying to keep production and printing separate, and as I recall the resources I used said there was a slight advantage to LS at the time.

Also, I created my own publisher label.

I have published a book through Politics and Prose Bookstore but selling it on Amazon is cost prohibitive. CreateSpace seems reasonable. What is the benefit to Ingram. Can you still sell on Amazon if you use Ingram to print?

Suzanne, I'm sure you could, but I don't think Amazon will allow you to have free give aways if you are publishing with other publishers. Write to Ingram about it. They'll give the low down. Amazon will as well.

Clyde

Clyde wrote: "Suzanne, I'm sure you could, but I don't think Amazon will allow you to have free give aways if you are publishing with other publishers. Write to Ingram about it. They'll give the low down. Amazon..."

Physical books have nothing to do with ebook exclusions for Select.

Suzanne Diffine, wrote: "I have published a book through Politics and Prose Bookstore but selling it on Amazon is cost prohibitive. CreateSpace seems reasonable. What is the benefit to Ingram. Can you still sell on Amazon ..."

I don't think Amazon will buy whole sale from Ingram. I think I saw that somewhere. But if you get the printed books yourself and sell through Amazon Advantage, it's possible. The downside is the shipping charge, as they won't take more than a few books at the time until you get a good sales record.

I went through Ingram Spark because I didn't want limited or shared royalties. I paid the expenses up front - about $3000 for editing, cover design, formatting, illustrations, and printing about 250 books for initial sales and promotional giveaways. Now I have a high quality product that I can offer to clubs and church groups to sell for fundraising purposes, making them up to $5.00 per book. There is no way I could do something like that with CS. Still, the book is available on both Amazon and B&N and has sold copies there. Book stores and on-line sales aren't my real market; if they were, I might have considered a different route. I think your choice would probably depend on your target market and how much you need out of it.

Christine wrote: "CreateSpace offers 60% royalties for its soft cover books, not sure what IngramSpark will offer, but their distribution is wider. I know I will get a hardcover with IngramSpark it's just the softco..."

I would recommend offering both. I know there are some authors that have both platforms to expand their reach. I for one am starting with Createspace and Lulu for indie distribution as well as Amazon. Ultimately, it's up to you and what you feel are your needs for your books.
I like Createspace because it's easy to use, offer ISBN options and yes they do share royalties but so do the publishing companies.
I'm using Amazon author central as well once the book goes up on the site. Linda has a good idea as well. Try thinking of your target market. Where are they buying? What are their ages?
Going out to book events and conventions is also a good idea because you're meeting potential readers and publishing houses tend to prowl and scout at them as well.

Linda wrote: "I went through Ingram Spark because I didn't want limited or shared royalties. I paid the expenses up front - about $3000 for editing, cover design, formatting, illustrations, and printing about 25..."

I like your mention of target market. I think sometimes it's something that gets overlooked when choosing certain PODs and hosting sites. Thank you for bringing that up.

Well thought out and excellent advise. In addition I would ad that I have had moderate success with Amazon ads (much work and follow up), but none with FB.