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Where Did Christendom's Trinity Come From?
Jehovah is as pagan and false as anyone else's concept of what "God" may be.If the Jewish deity Jehovah was "God" there would have always been a genocidal single male deity.
But "God" took many genders and forms for thousands - perhaps hundreds of thousands - of years before Jewish people imagined their imaginary Jehovah.
The earliest possible reference to Jehovah is from about 1,400 years before Jesus burst out through the hymen of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
"God" was around long, long before the Jehovah-come-lately.
Apart from that, I agree with much of what you said concerning the absence of the idea of a Jewish Trinity in the cult literature.
Christian Jews syncretised/stole the ideas of existing religions.
The writers of the Jesus cult propaganda said nothing about celebrating Jesus' birthday either.
Or about Jesus visiting this planet with the specific purpose of making himself a human sacrifice to mollify the regularly wrathful, planet-flooding Jehovah.
Or about Jesus being full of love for humanity.
Good luck getting straight and honest answers here ....
This is hilarious- like watching Zeitgeist The Movie.Most of this is so funny it's not worth commenting on. But we will. Cause it's fun.
Remember that bit in the Bible where Jesus gets baptized and the Holy Spirit comes down like a dove - and God the father says "this is my Son..."
Trinity. No other religion has this. Sorry Zeitgeist.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are throughout the Old Testament.
Yawn! This is first year College crap. Fun to mock though. Usually 15 year old internet atheists throw this stuff at me.
Well said, Rod. Now let the haters go back and see what Dawkins, Dennett, or Harris have to say. Their lack of originality is shocking.
The Holy Spirit (Spirit of God is mentioned on the O.T.) so even is some lazy scholar can't find Jesus (simply read Joshua, Isaiah, Daniel) you should at least have 2 thirds of the Trinity- no matter how clueless you are. I partially mean that in a Sherlock Holmes sort of way.
Funnily enough: Dawkins believes in Aliens, Harris wants to be Buddha, and Dennett probably thinkers Hitler was a fun guy just following his DNA.
Just curious:How the Hell does a Moon and Sun God compare to the Biblical Trinity??????
Allah of Islam is said to be a moonish deity. But nothing in the Bible says Jesus is a Moon.
As for the O.P.: have you even spent 5 minutes studying Horus and Osiris and their ilk? In no way are they ever in agreement on anything. Or acting as one. Or even touching our reality. Are you going to compare Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman to the Trinity next??????
This is where the intellectually dishonest smokescreen comes in, Rod. All of the "ancient gods" nonsense, including the fabrication of Mithrais, et.al., influencing Christianity has no basis in scholarly evidence. That's zero-point-zero evidence.
Rookies who merely parrot rubbish from intellectual wannabes.
Rod wrote: "This is hilarious- like watching Zeitgeist The Movie.Most of this is so funny it's not worth commenting on. But we will. Cause it's fun.
Remember that bit in the Bible where Jesus gets baptized and the Holy Spirit comes down like a dove - and God the father says "this is my Son..."
Rod:
You are referring to Luke 3:22, which says the following about Jesus' baptism:
"and the Holy Spirit descended on Him [Jesus] in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22 -- Berean Study Bible)
Now, suppose you explain how the mere mentioning of three entities in the same sentence equates to: "All three are the same god, and all three are co-equal and co-eternal." That would amount to you telling me that you and your father and your grandfather are the exact same individual simply because you were present together, near one another.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Rod wrote: "Trinity. No other religion has this. Sorry Zeitgeist.Jesus and the Holy Spirit are throughout the Old Testament."
Rod:
I provided three examples of pagan trinities in my OP, and you are arguing that "No other religion has" Trinity. Your denials will not change reality. Even the Hindus have their own trinity:
"The Hindu trinity is of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. They are respectively the creator, preserver and destroyer of the universe."
http://www.hindunet.org/god/trinity/
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Rod wrote: "Trinity. No other religion has this. Sorry Zeitgeist.Jesus and the Holy Spirit are throughout the Old Testament."
Rod:
Nobody is denying the existence of Jehovah (the Father), Jesus Christ (the Son), and Jehovah's holy spirit as being mentioned throughout the scriptures. The point you seem to not be getting is that the three are not combined into a single Godhead aka they are not all three the same God. And all three are not co-equal and co-eternal, as the Trinity formula claims. Scripture contradicts such claims.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Alter2Ego wrote: "Rod wrote: "Trinity. No other religion has this. Sorry Zeitgeist.Jesus and the Holy Spirit are throughout the Old Testament."
Rod:
Nobody is denying the existence of Jehovah (the Father), Jesus ..."
I agree that you are correct
For a comprehensive study of Trinities:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_...
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools...
https://www.islamreligion.com/article...
But one of the many difficulties of being brainwashed and trapped into a belief system is that no matter how little evidence you have, or how much evidence other people DO have, you are obliged to never be wrong.
And the Sunday schoolers here amply demonstrate the depths they sink to rather than admit they are wrong.
Pagan beliefs having 3 gods (who are not really united) is not the same as the Christian Trinity that is fully united and always in total agreement. Pagan deities generally fight for control and desires. Trinity is one in function.
A Hindu creator and destroyer is foolish. Mentioning Horus in agreement with any other 2 is hilarious.
Christian Trinity is very much co-equal and co-eternal. Do you own a Bible?
Jesus is not only near the Father, He is one with the Father. And the spirit comes from the father. What crap books have you been reading?
Rod wrote: "Pagan beliefs having 3 gods (who are not really united) is not the same as the Christian Trinity that is fully united and always in total agreement. Pagan deities generally fight for control and ..."
The Jehovah/Jesus/Holy Ghost combo-deal is every bit as pagan and mythological as the other "God" concepts you decry.
And you don't have a shred of anything outside the human-written cult propaganda to back up your claims.
Jehovah's Witnesses have got it right when reading what the propagandists have written.
The Jesus character is in secondary status to the mythological Jewish deity, Yahweh/Jehovah.
The arrogant dishonest hubris of certain Christians granted the Jesus character a promotion.
Awesome - whatever Stewie says: do the opposite. Every J.W. should be horrified right now.
Rod wrote: "Pagan beliefs having 3 gods (who are not really united) is not the same as the Christian Trinity that is fully united and always in total agreement. Pagan deities generally fight for control and desires. Trinity is one in function.
A Hindu creator and destroyer is foolish. Mentioning Horus in agreement with any other 2 is hilarious.
Rod:
So? What has that to do with the fact that the idea of trinity gods existed centuries before Christendom picked up the idea?
You seem ignorant of the fact that Christendom's Trinity did not become official "Christian" teaching until two pagan Roman Emperors intervened and settled the dispute among the Roman Bishops in the 4th Century AD, some 300 years AFTER Jesus Christ left the earthly scene and 300 years AFTER the last book of the Bible was written.
You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that there are no scriptures in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, that supports the idea of three gods combined into one in which all three are co-equal and co-eternal.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Rod wrote: "Christian Trinity is very much co-equal and co-eternal. Do you own a Bible?"Rod:
I am quoting a very important verse of scripture in my signature, and you ask me a foolish question like that? For that matter, I have quoted various scriptures in a couple of the other threads.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Rod wrote: "Christian Trinity is very much co-equal and co-eternal. Do you own a Bible?"Rod:
I am waiting for you to quote one single verse of scripture where the context indicates the Son (Jesus Christ) is co-equal with the Father (Jehovah/Yahweh).
While you are at it, be sure and quote at least one verse of scripture where the context indicates Jesus Christ (the Son) is co-eternal with Jehovah (the Father).
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Fun. I was hoping some of our other resident know-it-all theologians would jump in on this?????? Wimps.I will indeed comment when I get a chance to sit down with my bible and computer. (Usually at work on my phone).
You really DON'T want Jesus to be your God and Saviour now do you? Why?
The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. However, the concept of the Trinity is. It is used to refer to the Godhead (Colossians 2:9). 1 John 5:7 reads "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one".In Genesis, God said "let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26; therefore, God was not alone and man was made in the image of both).
In John 1:1 reads "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Jesus was there when God created this masterpiece called Earth all all of creation.
John 1:1-3 reads "The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him ...". This makes him co-equal with God.
Colossians 1:6 reads "For by him all things were created" (speaking of Christ who created it all with God).
How's that?
Awesome Tyrone. I was hoping you'd mention those verses. There are more... but that should irritate our O.P.
Tyrone wrote: "The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. However, the concept of the Trinity is. "Tyrone:
There is no "concept" of Trinity in the Bible. You presented verses in which the context actually contradict Trinity. I will address the verses in separate posts, starting in this post.
Tyrone wrote: "It is used to refer to the Godhead (Colossians 2:9). 1 John 5:7 reads "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one".
You clearly ignored the context to Colossians 2:9 (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters). It is the context that enables us to get the correct understanding of what we are reading. Take, for example, one quotation of Colossians 2:9 -- "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."
That verse is merely informing the reader that Jesus Christ had Jehovah's full backing while on earth as a human. The word "Deity" was thrown in by Trinitarian translators to give the impression that Jesus Christ is also Almighty God. Some of the Trinitarian translators use the word "Godhead" in their Bibles instead of "Deity," within the same verse of scripture.
The context to Colossians 2:9 is that Jesus Christ (the Son) is a created being, as follows:
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the first BORN over all creation." (Colossians 1:15 -- New International Version)
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
So you DON'T worship Jesus???Even though everything AND the Father point to Jesus?
It's all about Jesus. Why do you keep demoting him?
The whole Bible is the concept of the Trinity. Slowly, so that Most of us can understand it. Jesus is the very Word of God. The promise: Eternal King of Kings. Perfect lamb slain for the sins of the world- very god of god.
Alter2Ego wrote: "Tyrone wrote: "The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. However, the concept of the Trinity is. "Tyrone:
There is no "concept" of Trinity in the Bible. You presented verses in which the context a..."
While I respect the opinions of those with whom I respond, I generally try to avoid conflict by staying away from inflammatory rhetoric. To say I clearly ignored something is simply not true, nor do you have any way of knowing it to be true. You may ask if I considered or not considered an adjoining verse or verses, but don't accuse me of something which you clearly do not know to be true or not true. It is easier to say your disagree with my interpretation, or subscribe to a different intent of the author. I take no offensive in such situations. I look to learn more as well.
To launch into an accusation is the kind of approach that I would expect of the world, and not of someone who is studying the Bible. We should respond in brotherly love, not antagonistically. There is way too much of that on this and other discussion boards.
Heaven is very much about Jesus divine Kingdom. Most of the Bible points to this Kingdom and it's King: Jesus.Only occasionally does Jesus speak of the Father. He mostly talks about himself. Nobody else in the Bible does this...
Tyrone wrote: "While I respect the opinions of those with whom I respond, I generally try to avoid conflict by staying away from inflammatory rhetoric. To say I clearly ignored something is simply not true, nor do you have any way of knowing it to be true. You may ask if I considered or not considered an adjoining verse or verses, but don't accuse me of something which you clearly do not know to be true or not true. It is easier to say your disagree with my interpretation, or subscribe to a different intent of the author. I take no offensive in such situations. I look to learn more as well.To launch into an accusation is the kind of approach that I would expect of the world, and not of someone who is studying the Bible. We should respond in brotherly love, not antagonistically. There is way too much of that on this and other discussion boards."
Tyrone:
Are you as thin skinned as you are making out to be? Or is the above tirade meant to divert attention away from the fact that you did indeed ignore context when you cherry-picked several supposed Trinity verses?
Those are the exact same verses that I get at every single website where Trinity is debated. Those who present the verses routinely ignore the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters) because the context contradicts what they claim the cherry-picked verses are saying. It is the context that enables a reader to get the correct understanding of what is being read.
I have already addressed the first of your supposed Trinity verses, namely, Colossians 2:9, which is merely informing the reader that Jesus Christ had Jehovah's full backing while on earth as a human, as follows:
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)
That verse of scripture could hardly be telling the reader that Jesus Christ is in a Trinity with Jehovah, because part of its context informs us that Jesus is a created being, as follows:
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the first BORN over all creation." (Colossians 1:15 -- New International Version)
Another part of the context informs the reader that the Son died and had to be resurrected back to life by his Heavenly Father, Almighty God Jehovah, as follows:
"For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God , who raised Christ from the dead ." (Colossians 2:12 -- New Living Translation)
Not only does the context at Colossians 1:15 inform us that Jesus is a created being ("the first BORN over all creation"), but the context at Colossians 2:12 informs us that Jesus Christ literally died ("God, who raised Christ from the dead").
According to Christendom's formula of the Trinity, the Son is co-eternal with the Father. I just presented two verses that say otherwise, and both verses are part of the context that you ignored when you presented Colossians 2:9.
Now, if you feel like bowing out of this discussion because you choose to get upset over being truthfully told that you "clearly ignored context," suit yourself.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Alter...You're assuming Jesus physical body is all there is to him.
You're ignoring everything we said. (And the other 99% of the Bible).
Why are you so heretically desperate?
The
TRINITY
... Simple to SEE in the Bible... Impossible to UNDERSTAND...____________________________________
There is ONLY ONE God
Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"
____________________________________
The Father IS this ONE God
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father ..."
____________________________________
The Son [Jesus] IS this ONE God
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
____________________________________
The Holy Spirit IS this ONE God
Acts 5:3-4 - "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost ... (4)... thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God .
____________________________________
Anyone who teaches against the Trinity... DENIES the Word of God.
This is the teaching of this system church but no they are not one, but one in agreement. Please reference one scripture when Jesus says that He is God. Jesus only and continuely talked about His Father who sent Him. Best evendence of this is the book of John. Please read all of this book! The three that testify from Heaven in agreement! Again, One in Agreement!
The Pharisees knew what Jesus was saying, "You, being a man, make yourself God." That's why they killed him because they believed he was blasphemous. Just because a term is not illicitly stated in the Bible or by Jesus does not make it invalid. For example, Jesus never used the word Grace. But elsewhere it's stated plenty of time. The word "Trinity" was created but certainly not the dogma of it. It's pretty clear in the Bible.
Thanks Ben. That's as clear as it can be said.
Tyrone wrote: "The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. However, the concept of the Trinity is. It is used to refer to the Godhead (Colossians 2:9). 1 John 5:7 reads "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"."Tyrone:
If you are relying on 1 John 5:7 also known as the Johannine Comma or Comma Johanneum , I have news for you. That verse is a fabrication. It did not show up in the Bible until the Middle Ages, around the 16th century AD. We are talking about 1,500 years after the last book of the Bible was written.
Sources confirm that some of the words within 1 John 5:7 were dreamed up by Erasmus and "eventually incorporated into the text of most of the later Vulgate manuscripts." Notice the quotation below directly from one source:
"Johannine Comma
The Johannine comma, as it is called, is a sequence of extra words in 1 John 5:7-8 which appear in some early printed Greek texts (notably those of Erasmus), later versions of the Latin Vulgate, and in the King James Version of the Bible. See these words below in italics in the KJV and the same verse from the newer ESV.
"For there are three that bear record (witness) in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." -1 John 5:7-8, KJV
"For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree." -1 John 5:7-8, ESV
Pre-16th century Greek manuscripts and translations
"These extra words are generally absent from the Greek manuscripts. In fact, they only appear in the text of four late medieval manuscripts. They seem to have originated as a marginal note added to certain Latin manuscripts during the middle ages, which was eventually incorporated into the text of most of the later Vulgate manuscripts."
http://www.theopedia.com/Johannine_Comma
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Rod wrote: "Alter...You're assuming Jesus physical body is all there is to him.
You're ignoring everything we said. (And the other 99% of the Bible).
Why are you so heretically desperate?"
Rod:
You could not be more wrong. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between Jehovah and humans.
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus," (1 Timothy 2:5 -- New International Version)
Scripture also makes it clear that the resurrected Jesus Christ--who is now in heaven in a spirit body--is the only means provided by Jehovah by which humans can gain salvation.
"{11} This Jesus is the stone rejected by you builders, which has become the cornerstone. {12} There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people, and we must be saved by it." (Acts 4:11-12 -- Holman Christian Standard Bible)
So clearly, I do not regard Jesus' "physical body as all there is to him." Rather, I recognize that Jesus Christ is a very important spirit creature. And that's creature as in: a created being who had a beginning and therefore is not co-eternal with Jehovah the Father.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Robert wrote: " There is ONLY ONE GodDeuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"
____________________________________
The Father IS this ONE God
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father ..."
____________________________________
Robert:
You've got it right with Deuteronomy 6:4 where it clearly states that there is only ONE God. You also got it right when you stated "The Father IS this ONE God," and then you referenced Jude 1:1 which confirms that to be the case.
So where did Christendom's 3-in-1 god come from?
ANSWER: Paganism.
I will address your other scriptures in a separate posts.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Robert wrote: "The Son [Jesus] IS this ONE God
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
____________________________________"
Robert:
Your cherry-picked verse at John 20:28 indicates you are relying on a single verse of scripture where Thomas used the TITLES Lord and God with reference to the RESURRECTED Jesus Christ--while you make a point of ignoring the context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters).
Thomas obviously knew that Jesus Christ is not Almighty God based on the fact that Thomas saw Jesus Christ dead on the torture stake. In fact, the entire context to John 20:28 informs the reader that Thomas was simply acknowledging that Jesus Christ is in a godlike position over himself and other humans.
Remember, according to Christendom's Trinity, the Son (Jesus) is supposedly CO-ETERNAL with Jehovah the Father. The context at John 20:1-9 informs the reader that Jesus had only recently been resurrected from the DEAD .
An eternal person cannot die.
DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "Eternal means not having a beginning or an end."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Alter2Ego wrote: "Robert wrote: " There is ONLY ONE GodDeuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"
____________________________________
The Father IS this ONE God
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the serv..."
________________________________________________________
My response: I got it right with ALL THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTED !
You got it WRONG by REJECTING the ones you don't like.
The
TRINITY
... Simple to SEE in the Bible... Impossible to UNDERSTAND...____________________________________
There is ONLY ONE God
Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"
____________________________________
The Father IS this ONE God
Jude 1:1 - "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father ..."
____________________________________
The Son [Jesus] IS this ONE God
John 20:28 - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
____________________________________
The Holy Spirit IS this ONE God
Acts 5:3-4 - "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost ... (4)... thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God .
____________________________________
Anyone who teaches against the Trinity... DENIES the Word of God.
Robert wrote: "My response: I got it right with ALL THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTED !You got it WRONG by REJECTING the ones you don't like. "
Robert:
Oh, how you wish it were that simple.
It so happens that NONE of the scriptures you are relying on support Christendom's Trinity. You relied on Thomas' use of the TITLES "my Lord and my God " found at John 20:28, get this-- AFTER --Jesus was resurrected from the DEAD .
Christendom's trinity, written in Article I of The Catholic Faith, is defined as follows:
"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY ; the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Ghost."
http://www.sevenwholedays.org/2011/03...
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/thirty...
According to the official definition of Christendom's Trinity, which I quoted above, there are supposedly three persons and all three of the persons have "one eternity."
According to the context to John 20:28 (found at John 20:1-9), Jesus Christ died.
An eternal person cannot die.
DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": "Eternal means not having a beginning or an end."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Robert wrote: " The Holy Spirit IS this ONE GodActs 5:3-4 - "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost ... (4)... thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."
Robert:
The holy spirit is not God. Instead, the holy spirit BELONGS to God. For that reason, the holy spirit is frequently referred to as: the spirit OF God--indicating that it is a possession, something that Jehovah owns. Notice a couple examples below:
"The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit OF God was hovering over the face of the waters." (Genesis 1:2 -- English Standard Version)
"The Spirit OF the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;" (Isaiah 61:1 -- American Standard Version)
Notice the definition of the word "OF" below. It will be Definition #6 when you click the weblink:
"—used as a function word to indicate belonging or a possessive relationship ... king of England" (Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...
So when Ananias and his wife Sapphira offended Jehovah's holy spirit, and since the holy spirit belongs to or is a owned by Jehovah, it amounted to them offending Jehovah himself.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
So Is Jesus really Michael the archangel in a Jesus suit? Is that what you think? Be honest.
Alter2Ego wrote: "The holy spirit is not God. Instead, the holy spirit BELONGS to God. ..."My response: Thank you for you OPINION... however, God says you are WRONG.
Quote one verse that says the Holy Spirit IS NOT GOD.
I will begin by QUOTING a passage that says He is God.
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The Holy Spirit IS this ONE God
Acts 5:3-4 - "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost ... (4)... thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God .
The central doctrine within the majority of the 41,000 denominations within Christendom is the teaching that the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible is split up into three different persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit), that these three persons are combined into a single "Godhead," and all three are co-equal and co-eternal.
Strangely, while Trinity is the most important (or central) teaching in Christendom, the word "trinity" does not appear anywhere in Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. In fact, the word "Godhead" is nowhere to be found in the oldest existing manuscripts from which modern Bibles were translated.
Even more strange is the claim within the official Trinity formula, which says the three persons of the Trinity are co-equal (one power) and co-eternal (one eternity), when scripture says otherwise.
Considering its similarity to pagan trinities, it should not surprise anyone that Christendom's Trinity is contradicted by the Bible. For instance, among pagan nations that did not worship the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible, there were trinity gods in existence centuries before Jesus Christ appeared on earth in the 1st Century AD, and there were pagan trinities in existence during the 1st Century while Jesus was on earth. Below are three such examples, followed by the questions for discussion.
1. In the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.
2. In the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.
3. In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.
DISCUSSION POINTS:
1. If you have scriptures that you believe are talking trinity, do not quote more than four (4) scriptural examples at a time. Quote the verses and BRIEFLY explain to the forum why you believe they support Trinity.
2. If the Trinity is a Bible teaching, why is it that Jesus and his apostles who followed him around never taught anyone about the Trinity?
3. How is it that the Trinity teaching did not become "Christian" teaching until the Christianized Romans (who later called themselves Roman Catholics) copied the philosophy from pagan/false religions and made it "official" Christian teaching more than 300 years AFTER the resurrected Jesus Christ returned to heaven?
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18