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Giovanni’s Room
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Giovanni's Room Discussion: Part Two - Chp 1-3
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I never found David annoying as such, although I can definitely understand why people would. I didn't necesarily like him though and I definitely just wanted to scream at him at times. I think that he was so well written as a character that I could understand what he was doing even if it enraged/annoyed me. And when I get like that with characters I never get annoyed with them personally for some reason haha. And I wish I had my book with me (view spoiler)
I think what I liked about David is that he seemed really human and slightly flawed, so while he annoyed me at times, I liked it.I also wished I had my book with me right now...
Elli (The Bibliophile) wrote: "I think what I liked about David is that he seemed really human and slightly flawed, so while he annoyed me at times, I liked it.I also wished I had my book with me right now..."
Ah I definitely love me a flawed character as well!
I'm starting to hate David with a passion. Not only he doesn't deal with his problems but he also misuses and hurts others in the process. I found that scene with Sue very interesting for the same reasons stated above, too:) It was quite sad to read it, though. Another scene that I thought was very powerful is the time Giovanni got fired. Imo, it was very moving, I felt so sorry for him:/
The tragedy of this whole fated love affair between David and Giovanni, I believe is summed up for me, when David says:"The beast which Giovanni has awakened in me would never go to sleep again; but one day I would be with Giovanni anymore. And would I then, like all the others, find myself turning and following all kinds of boys down God knows what dark avenues, into what dark places?
With this fearful intimation there once opened in me a hatred for Giovanni which was as powerful as my love and which was nourished by the same roots."
My Lord. I even start to question whether he ever really TRULY loved Giovanni at all, if he was ever CAPABLE of it. There just always seemed to be this part of him that he shut off, from childhood. And though he was able to feel sympathy for Giovanni, and affection, whenever that true love started to bubble up, it was just overtaken by guilt, shame and fear. I wonder how he could have hidden it from his lover the whole time; the holding back, the hiding of himself.I feel like I'm rambling but do you all think Giovanni just looked past David's reticence?
Lynecia wrote: "The tragedy of this whole fated love affair between David and Giovanni, I believe is summed up for me, when David says:"The beast which Giovanni has awakened in me would never go to sleep again; ..."
Oh lord that extract you just posted sent me into an emotion because I got violently reminded of how much I love Baldwin's writing and this book.
You raise such a good point about whether David truly loved Giovanni, and I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think that David was capable of truly loving whilst he was filled up with so much hatred and shame and disgust. It's all so blooming tragic because it felt like they had the potential to be equally in love with each other, but that David could never commit himself to actually being that open and vulnerable and honest with Giovanni, so it was never going to happen.
It kind of echoes back to his childhood experience with Joey, where if David was able to talk and be open and affectionate with Joey maybe they could have been something together. But fear, shame, guilt, etc. took over.
I think maybe, for me, Giovanni was such a good and hopeful individual that he was able to just look over David's inability to honestly love? And maybe though he knew that David was never going to love him in the same way, Giovanni's love kind of blinded him to that? Idk I am just a rambling incoherent mess here, so I think I'm just gonna have to go away and weep over Baldwin's writing.
Ah yes! The prose, the prose, the prose!! I was reading that on the subway and I was tearing up at the raw emotion. Baldwin can craft sentences that crack you open...!
Lynecia wrote: "Ah yes! The prose, the prose, the prose!! I was reading that on the subway and I was tearing up at the raw emotion. Baldwin can craft sentences that crack you open...!"THIS!
Lydia wrote: "Lynecia wrote: "The tragedy of this whole fated love affair between David and Giovanni, I believe is summed up for me, when David says:"The beast which Giovanni has awakened in me would never go ..."
I agree. I think he wanted to love Giovanni. And I think he wanted to love Hella (since it would have made life "easier" for him).
Mod
"The beast which Giovanni has awakened in me w..."
Gah! I feel like I'm being so mean to David, BUT I don't think he loved either Hella or Giovanni and I don't think they honestly loved him either. For instance, when Giovanni gets fired and even before then, this character talks about how he was involved with Guillaume for his job and how that relationship helped him get financial security. After that, Giovanni sort of just latches on to David (or so it seems to me) as a means to an end and as an actual replacement for Guillaume. The relationship between these two seemed to be purely sexual until that particular point when Giovanni loses his job and becomes financially depended on David
Then, with Hella, David and she both just seem to be in that awkward stage of their relationship where being together is comfortable and no one wants to break up with the other person so they just coast along and wait for the final thing that will drive them a part. (view spoiler)
I don't hate David because he's raw and human even though we don't agree a lot with what he's doing. he doesn't fully want either. Hella is a safe relationship for him to be in and I think he wants to want her but he doesn't. He loves and hates Giovanni and we all know those two emotions are very close to each other. He just needs to be honest with his emotions and thoughts towards Giovanni
In terms of our liveshow, we will be choosing individuals who have posted at least once in each of the discussion boards designated for Giovanni's Room. This will insure that the chosen guest panelists will be a person who has read the book in it's entirety and also has some thoughts on what they've read.