A Game of Thrones discussion

I watched Season 1 before I read the book and I fell in love with Catelyn. That might be because Michelle Fairly who played her not only did an amazing job but was one of the best actress' the show had.

Reading the book she does seem a little more cold hearted than she does in the TV show.

When me and some friends talked about the books and the show, I seemed to be the only one who loved Catelyn Stark.

Just curious what most people think about her.

I adore her. She is a wonderful character who has a fierce loyalty to her family. She would die to protect any of her children. She's a strong woman.

In the book, she's a total scumbag to Jon Snow. But there are indications she regrets this, so I'm torn on her.

As far as I've gotten she has only snapped at Jon one time and that was when she was anxious about Bran. She was probably just stressed an exhausted and lashed out. Also Jon is a constant reminder to her that her husband was with another woman at one point. Can you imagine how this must feel to her? To feel like "the other woman". Caetlyn has insecurities like all of us and Jon is a reminder of that. I don't excuse what she did, but we all lash out sometimes and say things we don't mean.

I did start to like her when she met the bastard girl at her crazy sister's place and felt a pang of regret. That hints she feels bad about what she said to Jon. And it's impossible NOT to look good next to Psycho McLoony Mom. You know, if your kid ever says "Mommy, I want to see the dwarf fly," you did something very wrong as a parent.

My understanding is that she made sure Jon was not quite a part of the family. It was in one of her chapters, so it was not really left up to gossip. She is strong, but she is flawed, which makes her a real character. That being said, I think she is far too rash. Her need to believe Tyrion tried to kill Bran had a direct hand in Ned's death.

I was actually on her side in that section because I believed Tyrion was guilty. Damn you, Tinyfoot or whatever the hell your name is.

I never really thought it was Tyrion. It might be because he wormed his way into my heart early, or that it just seemed too easy for it to be him.

Lauren wrote: "My understanding is that she made sure Jon was not quite a part of the family. It was in one of her chapters, so it was not really left up to gossip. She is strong, but she is flawed, which makes h..."

I bet Joffrey would have had him executed regardless of what happened with Tyrion. Once Ned tried to keep him from the throne, his fate was sealed.

Scott wrote: "Lauren wrote: "My understanding is that she made sure Jon was not quite a part of the family. It was in one of her chapters, so it was not really left up to gossip. She is strong, but she is flawed..."

But, the confrontation with Jaime would not have occurred, as that was completely driven by him wanting to avenge his brother being taken captive by Catelyn. I have no doubt he would have eventually died, but perhaps not so many of his men would have died with him. Though, I suppose than the argument could be made the North would not have joined the war if that had not happened. I don't know, but I do see a clear link between her actions and his original imprisonment.

I know a lot of people blame her for Ned's death, but I disagree. However, her actions towards Jon makes me hate her character.

I started re-reading the books (yes huge project!) recently.

And I watched the first season then started reading the books for the first time.

Now I noticed that the TV reversed Cat and Ned in the decision to go south. In the books Ned wanted to stay in the north. He is always the cautious Stark, cool and quiet. It was Catelyn (and Luwin) that persuaded Ned to go south in the books. However, in the show Catelyn wanted her husband to be by her side and Ned is the typical hero that answers to duty's call. In the book I like her less and I prefer the book version.

So I guess if you started from the books, you would like Catelyn less? Anyone could testify? :)

However, overall I think Ned and Cat are a perfect couple, one of the rare couples that are both honest and loving and deserving each other.

Kate wrote: "I started re-reading the books (yes huge project!) recently.

And I watched the first season then started reading the books for the first time.

Now I noticed that the TV reversed Cat and Ned in th..."


Agreed. They are wonderful parents and I think they truly loved each other. The same cannot be said of many others.

Catelyn is one of the more developed characters, and her actions drive a lot of the plot, and other characters. Arguably, the fate of her family members is in one way or another tied to her own actions. So--without giving anything away--Ned's fate is linked to her behavior, as is Robb's.... Sansa's situation has a lot to do with her romantic views of life. Jon's general rejection from the family and the personality issues he has are mostly the result of her treatment of him.

In that context, she's interesting. She's a well developed character: flawed and mistaken upon occasion, but with a consistent and logical agenda.

However, as the fates of her family come to fruition, her own influence and significance starts to wane. By the time of the (view spoiler)[Red Wedding (hide spoiler)] I was thinking that the character had been played out, and couldn't help but wonder why she was still getting POV chapters. The (view spoiler)[Lady Stoneheart development was a dramatic "rejuvenation" of the character.... Suddenly she has a role that can continue to have some significance in the later novels. I don't know if she'll get POV chapters, but she could. (hide spoiler)]

I don't know how "loving" Ned and Catelyn are. Like many an arranged marriage, theirs works and they have grown to "love" each other, but let's not overstate things. Eddard Stark is chosen by her father to wed her after the death of his elder brother. It is political and a second-best arrangement. Over the (15?) years, they have grown close and respect each other, but let's not talk of their relationship in fairy-tale terms. Significantly, didn't both at their wedding "love" someone else?

Catelyn is a very human character,as she is strong, a fiery lioness when it comes to her children; her flaw is when it comes to Jon Snow - we might argue that she snapped at him, when she was at Bran´s sick bed, that she was stressed out and anxious; but, from what i gather in the books, she pretty much hated the sight of him, although he had no guilt whatsoever in the matter - if she wanted to be crossed, she should have been crossed at Ned. Jon didn´t asked to be born, so in that sense, she showed no humanity and was a bit arrogant with him. Ned, in the other hand bented over backwrods to make him feel at home, not making any differences in his upbringing, to his his won legitimate children - he was raised as equaly good as the legitimate Starks. ans this was a friction point between them - the only thing that they didn´t see eye to eye.
as for the marriage itself, to me, they started off arranged and estranged, but they were kindred spirits, they thought alike, so, over the years, they grew more and more attached to each other - and this is not "fairy-tale telling" - to the point of in realiyt loving each other.

I like her, nut don´t love her - as someone said earlier, as the story progresses, her character started to fade away, especcially since she joined Robb - she has been cast aside, loosing relevancy.

I really sympathized with Jon Snow. He gets dumped on by so many people for being a bastard, to the point that his only chance to make something of himself is to take the black, a lonely and abysmal existence.

Catelyn Stark never loses "relevancy" at any point in the novels. She is present throughout and contributes to so many important moments; I'm not sure what constitutes a "spoiler" in this thread, so I'll keep it vague and general, but she's more "relevant" than Ned, and her faults cause terrible repercussions that ripple throughout the novels.

Scott wrote: "I did start to like her when she met the bastard girl at her crazy sister's place and felt a pang of regret. That hints she feels bad about what she said to Jon. And it's impossible NOT to look goo..."

Not to mention still breast feeding a 6 year old.....

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Catelyn Stark never loses "relevancy" at any point in the novels. She is present throughout and contributes to so many important moments; I'm not sure what constitutes a "spoiler" in this thread, s..."

What i meant is that as the story progresses, she is less "heard" - by the time she meets Robb, her POV´s regarding strategy are less heard - but that is only to demonstrate that her son is holding the reigns, nothing else.Her actions repercut throughout the books in many levels and by staying alive unlike Ned, she is more relevant than him, yes.

I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most.

Gwen wrote: "Not to mention still breast feeding a 6 year old....."

OH MAN I FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

Why do you detest her? I haven't read that far so I can't judge what she does in later books but what has she done so far to make you hate her?

Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

Don't tease me. That just makes me want to finish A Feast for Crows even faster.

Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

She doesn't even appear in that book. What are you talking about?

She is a great female character in my mind and a well developed character. The books show a lot of strength's and weaknesses to her. She's one of the few characters that made me cheer for her and be furious at her through several different moments throughout the series. It takes quite a feat to pull that off. So yeah overall she's a fascinating character.

Mitali wrote: "Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

She doesn't even appear in that b..."

Didn't she? I read all of the books in like a month back in 2011, so it might have been in A Feast For Crows.

Iris wrote: "Mitali wrote: "Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

She doesn't even a..."

She doesn't make it past Storm of Swords really. I mean, yes her body does, but...

Perhaps because I completely relate to Jon Snow, I despise her for her treatment of him. It's not his fault he was born, and he's not any less valuable as a person because he's "a reminder of an affair." That just doesn't excuse her treatment of him, despite her fierce love/loyalty to her own blood.

Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

I know exactly what you are talking about and I hate her because of that too. (view spoiler)[Brianne is one of my favourite characters and if she is dead my hatred for Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart will grow even more!! (hide spoiler)]

i liked her, because she was a great mom for her children and wanted their protection and has a strategic mind for the best.

However, i don't like the way she treat jon snow.Is not the kids fault for being a bastard for gods sake... and he is as noble as ned sooooo whyyyyy... Maybe is that.. she dislikes him for being alike Ned and she loved neds brother Brandon (suposely). And almost none of her kids are alike Ned soooo dunno... but c'mon he at least is not like ANOTHER BASTARD i know from that book GAHHHH i hated that other guy T^T



HUGE SPOILERS (books 3, 4, 5 - Storm of swords, Feast for crows, dance with dragons) DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T READ... READ the books. not seen the show but READ THE BOOKS

SO PLEASE JUMP TO THE NEXT COMENT.

(view spoiler)[
you have been warned!!!!
So she "passed over" in the red wedding, i was kinda broken hearted because NO ONE, but NO ONE deserves that kind of thing.... NOT EVEN IN A FREAKING WEDDING... i hate those freys T^T and They lie about that event and are supper arrogants i hate them....
You wont see this in the series because it has been said that lady stoneheart wont appear in the show. She is found by Baeric Dondarion AKA the Lighting lord (something like that) 3 days after she is dead. Thoros can't give her life back as he did with dondarion so dondarion gives his life for her and she comes back to like in a very cadaveric form that is now Lady Stoneheart. She'll be hanging anyone that she thinks that had something to do with the red weding that betrayed her, like Freys Boltons and Lanisters.
In Feast for crows brienne finds her. she doesn't recongnise her at the begining but then she does... Lady stoneheart sees that she is olding a sword with Lannisters simbol and THE SAME STEAL AS ICE... she feels betraied by Brienne because she was supose to bring her children back instead she is wondering arround with Oathbreaker and it seems that she works for them as "Bring starks children back to king's landing"... but its not. Now read the last POV of Brienne she sais a WORD...
In Dance with the Dragons there is a POV of jaime. In the end he finds BRIENNE ^^ she says that she found the girls, but jaime has to come with her alone.. and he goes but thats the last thing you heard from her.
So that WORD she said makes Catelyn spare her life so...
i dunno... I liked catelyn, and i understand why she is doing this cold things, she was hardly betrayed by everyone she believes that every children of hers is dead, the others shouldn't have kiled robb in the red wedding because they were guest...
too bad they aren't going to put lady stoneheart in the show T^T it would be SO AWESOME.but fine... -.-
Now i'm eager to see how the story is going to be in the show.
(hide spoiler)]

Nikki wrote: "Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

I know exactly what you are talki..."

read the Dance with the Dragons :) (or see the spoiler if you are eager to know the awnser to your spoiler :))
(view spoiler)[ Brienne Lives :) in dance with the dragons there is a POV of Jaime where he finds her. she says that she found the girls, but he must come alone with her. and he goes. now that ends like that... but if you remember Brienne said a WORD and that one made Stoneheart spear her life. :) hope that this helps (hide spoiler)]

Nikki wrote: "Iris wrote: "I detest her. I've never liked her, but after that sh*t she pulled in A Dance With Dragons I know that she is the character that I loathe the most."

I know exactly what you are talki..."

Yes exactly! I mean, if either of the two aforementioned die because of Catelyn I will be royally pissed off. Sigh...

What do you suppose that WORD is?

Maybe there's another discussion thread for this, but clearly you've thought about it. You want to share those thoughts???

Ooooh yes!! I remember now. I have read ADWD I had just forgotten that Brienne was sent to find Jamie.

Brienne and Jamie are 2 of my faves so they had better be ok!!
To be honest though I wasn't happy at all with some of the possible deaths in the book :(

I doubt that both of them will live through that event. I mean think about it, Brienne went and got Jamie to have the Cold One kill him. So we lose Jamie. Or she went and got Jamie, told him what was up and they devised a plan to get Pod out of there, but I doubt seeing this go off without a hitch, so in all likelihood we'll lose Brienne because the Cold One is a Cold Biyotch and she'll make her pay for her (In her mind) second betrayal of her trust...

I also watched the TV show before reading the book, and throughout all the seasons she's in I did like her (as I adore all of the Starks). However, after reading the book I liked her a lot more. In fact I finished it today and mentioned my thoughts on Catelyn in a quick, short review I wrote. For me, in the TV show she has more of a purely 'mother' role whereas in the first book at least, she is a lot cooler and takes command, etc. She had some good ideas during the battles but as far as I remember those actions and dialogue were given to Robb in the TV show which is kind of annoying. So yeah, in my opinion book Catelyn is better than show Catelyn.

Am I the only one who sees the above user's name in Japanese? Andromeda, I mean. My computer might be messing up...

I see it in Japanese too!

OK, good. I use my computer to write in Japanese sometimes, so I thought it had gotten confused. It's happened before.

アンドロメダ wrote: "I also watched the TV show before reading the book, and throughout all the seasons she's in I did like her (as I adore all of the Starks). However, after reading the book I liked her a lot more. In..."

Yeah that's a good point. She gives him the plans in quiet because she doesn't want to embarrass him infront of his men. She is much more fierce in the books.

Small book spoiler from A Game of Thrones:
(view spoiler)[She even slices the throat of a man when they're attacked on the road while on their way to the Eyrie but in the TV show she just plays the damsel in distress (hide spoiler)]

I quire frankly believe most of you read up to ADWD so, first I noticed that many of you watched the show first (which it's an error, on my opinion, but whatever) I read the books first and I abhorred Cat. Yes I am going back to Jon Snow, she always look at him with despise, and I always like Jon so it was a little thorn, not only that but she did create the whole rupture with the Lannisters, I'm not going to say that she killed Ned, Ned killed himself, but if she hadn't taken dear innocent Tyrion Ned would had resigned his office. She is a strong woman, not denying on that, she saw the dangers in Theon, and in Freys (too late), but what she does to Brienne (another character I don't like) it's just not cool.

first I noticed that many of you watched the show first (which it's an error, on my opinion, but whatever)

Some of us didn't really have a choice. I didn't even know it was based off of books. I just randomly was flicking through the channels and watched a bit and then bought Season 1 and fell in love.

My love for A Song of Ice and Fire has only gotten stronger because I read the books after catching upto the TV show and that's all I really care about. If I had the choice, Of course I'd rather have read the books first.

Scott wrote: "In the book, she's a total scumbag to Jon Snow. But there are indications she regrets this, so I'm torn on her."

i disagree - there are absolutely no indications in the first book that she regrets her mistreatement of jon snow ( who is a smexy bastard btw, pun intended)

I cant say I cared much for her. She treated Jon horribly and gave Robb mostly bad advice( yes lets ally with the Freys and put the Boltons in charge of your other army after all what could go wrong).

Ha ha Maeve that made me giggle. He is definitely one smexy bastard!!

And I agree, I don't remember any evidence of her remorse for the way she treated Jon. The only part I can think of is when she prayed and said she would be better to Jon if the gods saved Bran. But she later took it back didn't she?

I read the books first and I liked Catelyn Stark. Yes she treated Jon badly(love him by the way) but she wouldn't be the first woman to treat a child, borne to her husband by another woman, that way and she won't be the last. Yes she makes rash choices and yes her character is flawed but I'm sure that every can agree that Catelyn Starks character is one of the most developed characters ever. PS Angel I agree with you. As dull as Briennes character is the stunt she pulls with Brienne isn't cool at all.

How come she treats Ned better than Jon when Ned's the one that actually cheated on her?That never made sense to me.Also I don't really remember her feeling remorseful about mistreating Jon in the books.

Barnana wrote: "How come she treats Ned better than Jon when Ned's the one that actually cheated on her?That never made sense to me.Also I don't really remember her feeling remorseful about mistreating Jon in the ..."

Because Ned is her husband and even though he made a mistake she still loves him. Jon however is not anything to her by blood or affection. It's a whole different relationship between them. She loves her children because they are HERS and they are a sign of the love she and Ned share. Jon has no part in this.

Steven wrote: "I watched Season 1 before I read the book and I fell in love with Catelyn. That might be because Michelle Fairly who played her not only did an amazing job but was one of the best actress' the show..."

I never saw Catelyn as cold. She was firm but also gentle. I adore her by the way. :)