Dragons & Jetpacks discussion

What do you look for in a fantasy book?

When you pick one of these off of the shelf and begin to read it, what do you expect to find? is it elves, dwarfs, and ogres? Is it magic? Is it dragons?

On the other hand, is there anything that you would like to see in a fantasy book but never have? What, in your opinion, would be an acceptable deviation from or variation to the fantasy genre?

What do you think? The ball's in your court now!

When it comes to fantasy, I prefer those set in unique worlds, rather than something set in our own. I also love to see different races like elves and dwarves. I haven't read enough books with non-human main characters, I reckon. Last one I can think of was Wards of Faerie.

Magic is another bonus - especially if the usage of magic requires some sort of sacrifice, like in The Name of the Wind.

I really admire it when an author goes to extremes to create and flesh out this fantasy world, including maps, languages and history.

Funnily enough, I actually have a blog post planned for Friday where I discuss the elements I love in fantasy fiction :D

Personally I love a book about magic and anything with a student/teacher at the beginning really pulls me in very quickly. I do like it when they try to balance out the mage by making their limitations or making them tire out quickly, it's no fun if your protagonist doesn't have to struggle at all.

I also like anything that has some really good interactions with animals/dragons. Anne Mccafrey has always been a personal favorite of mine and the interactions with wolves in the Belgariad is something else I really enjoy.

And like Rinn said I really enjoy some world building with well fleshed out histories.

(If anyone can think of anything similar to Anne Mccafrey's books with dragons I would love to hear about them, I'm really quite disappointed in her son's writing so pretty much stopped reading after he took it over)

I don't know exactly how similar, but I know Seraphina has a big focus on dragons as main characters :)

I quite enjoy when the main characters go on a journey or adventure. Especially if they don't like/know each other and need to learn to work together. I guess the classic example of this is the Lord of the Rings, but I also quite enjoyed Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody cycle.

I also like it when a book covers almost the whole life time of a person, as in the Mists of Avalon. I really enjoy reading about how a person changes in time and the relationships evolve.

I'm sure there are others, but those were the first ones that came to mind.

You know, this sorta made me think about what turns me off to it. Maybe I'm just a negative person.

These days I've been reading a lot of fantasy books (mainly indie stuff, that's how I roll these days) and the main characters too often have a bizarre god-mode mix-match of skills.

I'm an old D&D addict, so I was brought up with a very class-based mentality. I do hate seeing the expert swordsman who is super-stealthy, slinging destructive magic and healing themselves at will. I just don't know how they have the time to master all these disciplines!

I used to be into high-fantasy, but these days I go for low fantasy stuff. Not so many elves and dwarves, not so many people using magic to sweep their dirty inn floors. ^^)

I like fantasy that takes place in unique, richly thought-out worlds. By unique I mean not so much elves and dwarves but newly imagined creatures. Although, dragons always seem ok for some reason.

I also like for the characters to be interesting and likeable, and for the relationships between characters to be interesting. Political intrigue, like in GOT and a twisting plot with a lot of riddles for the reader to solve, like in WOT, make it all the better.

I'm definitely more a high fantasy girl, esp if its done right. I like it when the entire world is at stake.

Here is my aforementioned post, by the way :)

I agree with you Selah, about the political intrigue! Something like that always makes the world seem more real. It feels a little 'empty' without politics, corruption and backstabbing ;)

Totally! Backstabbing--so entertaining to watch : )

I grew up as a SF person mostly with the only fantasy I read as a teen being Lord of the Rings. That kind of set my standard and ruled out a lot of derivative stuff where the plot is LotR with the numbers filed off.

In general, high fantasy set in medieval Europe is done for me, especially if there's a Chosen One and/or a Quest To Kill The Dark Lord and/or an Object That Must Be Found/Destroyed to save the world.

What I *do* like is fantasy set in worlds that feel truly different. Examples? The Obsidian and Blood trilogy by Aliette de Bodard, set in Aztec times. The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms and its sequels by NK Jemisin. For stories, Salsa Nocturna by Daniel José Older.

Bottom line? If you're going to take me out of my world, really take me out.

It depends. I love two things about fantasy.

The first is the epicness, the sheer larger than life scope. Unfortunately, I'm real tired of all the epic fantasy out there that just threads old ground, which brings me to the next thing I look for in fantasy.

Creativity. Fantasy is supposed to be fantastical, completely defying reality and often times your imagination. I like my dragons just as much as the next guy but sometimes they don't just make the cut.

That's why I love authors like Brandon Sanderson and Mark T. Barnes. They combine the two things I like in my fantasy most.

Roger wrote: "(If anyone can think of anything similar to Anne Mccafrey's books with dragons I would love to hear about them, I'm really quite disappointed in her son's writing so pretty much stopped reading after he took it over) ."

Agreed Roger! I seem to recall in the depths of time I read a Jane Yolen book, the first of the Pit Dragon series... Probably not quite what you are looking for, but worth a look?

I am a complete sucker for anything fae and folklore... which can be difficult as there is a lot in YA which while has interesting details (Melissa Marr's Ink Exchange has fae magic linked with tattoos put on humans), often falls into the bizarre love triangle/rhombus/squiggle and so on that is a seemingly typical trait of YA these days. However, it is the reason I LOVE Celia Dart-Thornton's Bitterbynde trilogy (The Ill-Made Mute being the first), and have copies of Faerie Tale and The Wood Wife... any other recommendations for non-YA faerie/folklore is appreciated :)

I also love dragons and animal interactions with humans, Anne MacCaffrey's Pern series, Robin Hobb's Realms of the Elderlings series, and Tamora Pierce's Tortall series (YA, but a major part of my early teenage years! Alanna: The First Adventure is the first of the Song of the Lioness series, Wild Magic is the first of the Immortals series, First Test is the first of the Protector of the Realm series - and so on... those series are chronological too for those interested). I don't know what it is about connections with animals and mythical beings, perhaps because they are so different that it is a way of looking for connections, either by making them more human, or by making us more different/special/inhuman?

Amazing world-building just goes without saying these days, if an author creates a world with cultures and histories etc. that I can lose myself in and think about for days or years to come, then they have done their job well - particularly if I want to live in it or wished it was real! I feel it also helps to sort some of the chaff from the wheat, so to speak, as there are so many similar books out there these days!

I can sometimes be put off a book by the blurb sounding too dramatic with chosen people and ends of the world, just because I have heard it all before... it can be rare that a book really grabs my attention from the blurb these days, usually I mark them as maybes with a grimace, but then actually quite enjoy them when I get to the reading of it. Though The Way of Kings, Part 1 had me gripped by the blurb :)

Having said that blurbs are boring because some many sound the same, sometimes I think authors can try too hard to make something really different which irritates my mind as I try and get my head round what they are trying to do because it doesn't flow very well.

I agree that some good character development and political backstabbing is brilliant, because you start really caring for some characters only for something terrible to happen and you are left in the lurch at the end of a chapter of book, heart hammering, in shock wondering what is going to happen to them... or like me, you get to a tense part of the book and I have to put it down, squeal, make a cup of tea, and come back to it when feeling more prepared! :D

Also - to add to my extremely long post :S :D

I think authors can become stuck in a rut... I loved David Edding's Belgariad (Pawn of Prophecy) and Elenium (The Diamond Throne), he's really good at Gods and Goddesses and epic quests, however I just could not get on with his Dreamers series The Elder Gods, it was too dry and I just felt it was one too far, or just didn't flow well.

For non-YA fae works there is, of course, War for the Oaks and more recently Mike Shevdon's book starting with Sixty-One Nails.

I'd definitely recommend The War of the Flowers for a faerie story. I'm a huge Tad Williams fan and this is a great single volume epic fantasy, I recommended it for the D&J ultimate booklist!

Agree about authors getting stuck in a rut. I think they find something that works and then can't grow past that.

Beauty by Sheri S. Tepper is a good one for fairy tales retold, although it's a bit bizarre.

Have you read any of George Macdonald's works? It's not epic fantasy but it's my very favorite for fae/ fairy tales. He kind of bridged the gap between folklore and modern the precursors to modern fantasy such as tolkien and C.S. Lewis.

I loved loved loved The War of the Flowers. It was my re-introduction to Tad Williams as an adult (my favorite book as a child was Tailchaser's Song).

Like most of the posters, I really love a well-thought out world the most. I dig journeys, I dig political intrigue, I dig battles. The one thing that really sucks me in, though, is a great world for these things to take place in.

Loved Rothfuss' world, and you can just tell he's spent a lot of time building this world. The societies, the magic, the money, everything. Feels very, very real.

Another author who does a great job with this is Daniel Abraham. His Dagger and Coin series is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Love his world, and how he's mixed in class structures, banking, revolts and god worship all into one story. This world is also filled with many different races so that adds another great element to them. Seeing these class battles between different types of humans. Very cool

Scott wrote: "Another author who does a great job with this is Daniel Abraham. His Dagger and Coin series is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Love his world, and how he's mixed in class structures, banking, revolts and god worship all into one story. This world is also filled with many different races so that adds another great element to them. Seeing these class battles between different types of humans. Very cool "


Hmm I'll have to check that out :) is it a big series?

The Dagger & Coin series is planned as a quintet with the fourth book being released in two weeks (August 5) and the last one to be expected next year.

Thanks for creating this interesting topic.

The first thing I'm looking for in a fantasy is obviously something different compared to my own reality.
For me this has something to do with the availability of information in our time. There aren't many white spots on the map anymore and I think you have to go into Micro-Biology or Astronomy, if you want to really experience something new. Therefore fantasy speaks to my inner adventurer, cause I get to experience something new and unexpected, when I visit a new world or universe.

The second important thing for me are the sandbox possibilities fantasy gives us.
When I read about conflict in our modern world, my own biography and experience highly influences how I judge nations, persons etc. in any given conflict.
Fantasy on the other hand has the ability to take this kind of conflict and bring it up under a different context.
This is why I'm also a lot into multi-pov works, where the reader can experience both sides of a conflict without being nudged to lean toward a black/white decision.
This wasn't always fantasy's strong suit, but I think there are some great works, which feature those kinds of coflict.

And I really like twists and unexpected turns. Especially when they emerge organically from the two features I mentioned already. A new element for me to discover, which chamges the status quo and shakes up the sandbox to create some sociological or political experiments.

What you haven't heard me talk about alas is characters. I know that they are very important to a majority of readers, but for me they are always a plus. But I'm totally fine of having certain characters set up as plot devices, when they create those shake-ups and lead to these experiments.
Again, it's better for me if it's done organically, but not a total necessity.

Yeah ... he was an assistant for George RR Martin for years so you can definitely see some similarities in the stories. He's much better and getting the damn work out, though haha

Scott wrote: "Yeah ... he was an assistant for George RR Martin for years so you can definitely see some similarities in the stories. He's much better and getting the damn work out, though haha"

He's actually a Brandon Sanderson in disguise. I mean he writes his own fantasy series, writes urban fantasy under the name HLN Hannover, writes the Game of Thrones comic series, is part of GRRMs Wild Cards writers and does the Expanse SF series together with Ty Franck under the James S.A. corey pseudonym. Such an overachiever.^^

I'm not a typical fantasy reader; I read more sci-fi, but I'm planning to get back into some fantasy.

For me, a book with dragons, elves, and magic isn't quite as appealing as a book with just one of those things. I guess what appeals to me would be sort of a hybrid between historical fiction and fantasy, showing what would happen if the Mongols or the Roman Empire ran into elves or a dragon.

I really enjoyed the Otori series, which was a bit light on fantasy, but one of my favorites:
Across the Nightingale Floor

I recently ran across this book, which sounds interesting:
Thieftaker

Any other suggestions along the same lines would be welcome.

William wrote: "Any other suggestions along the same lines would be welcome."

A series that does exactly what you describe would be the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik starting with His Majesty's Dragon.
It's set during the Napoleonic Wars and the only difference to our history is that dragons exist and are used in warfare.

Another one, which I haven't read yet but sounds along the same line would be Arcanum, asking the question of how would the Dark and Middle Ages be different, if magic would have existed.

Mpauli wrote: "William wrote: "Any other suggestions along the same lines would be welcome."

A series that does exactly what you describe would be the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik starting with [book:His Maje..."

Thanks for the suggestions! I've added them to my to-read list.

Leanne - I loved that series. The Obsidian & Blood book is an omnibus of the entire trilogy. If you want, you can try just the first volume - look for Servant of the Underworld. While it's the first in the trilogy it stands on its own very well.

Possibly a cop out but i love my fantasy to be fantastical.
While i love a good unique world i have equally loved fantasy books based in or reflecting our world.
I do like a lot of magic and a sprinkling of magical creatures or beings.

I agree with you on the first book of a series. It can be great to see a brilliant imagination at work building up the setting.

Manuel wrote: "I'm a bit like a tourist. So, vivid world building is definitely one great thing to get me hooked. I like to walk around in astonishment, seeing a lot of stuff, that appears new, attractive, alien ..."

A tourist is a perfect way of putting it! I think if an author can describe things so well that if you were plonked down in that place you would know roughly what to do in terms of where to go or what the customs are, then they have done a good job - particularly if I start wishing there was a Lonely Planet guide for the place! :D

The first thing that I notice is the writing style itself. That's the single most important aspect for me when deciding if I'm going to take the time to read a book. There's no specific style I really look for as long as it is generally well-written, somewhat unique and is able to tell the story in a way where I can visualize everything in my mind.

What keeps me going are the characters and their relationships. It's great when a fantasy has a cast of fleshed out characters with unique perspectives all intermingling with another. Most of my favorite fantasy books have characters that fascinate me in one way or the other... Kelsier from the Mistborn book, Tyrion, Arya and others from GoT, Elodin from Name of the Wind. I ultimately remember (or forget) a book due to the characters.

What do I look for in a Fantasy book? Generally, neither dragons nor jetpacks! And politics only as a minimal background - I did't much go for Game of Thrones!

First, I am in partial agreement with Scott (message 17) "I really love a well-thought out world the most. I dig journeys, I dig political intrigue, I dig battles.".
OK, I dig journeys - but only tolerate political intrigue, and while individual combat scenes can have some interest, big battles usually turn me off.

Next let me agree with Leanne (message 25) "Magic! Magic magic magic!". However, even that needs further comment. I want magic to have rules - and costs, or difficulties. A magician that waves his wand, shouts the magic words, and things happen, is fine in a (very) juvenile book. I have grown beyond such things.

Also like Leanne, I do enjoy a good unique (or just unusual, or a new twist on an old) magical system - but that sets the bar quite high for the author. If he/she has to explain the magic as well as build the world as well as tell the story - we are at grave risk of finishing up in the world of info-dumps! Using pre-existing mythologies and/or magical systems can give the reader quite a good start and save the author a lot of explaining, meaning he/she can get to the story sooner. That's not always true, but it is worth considering.

Then there are dragons (and/or elves, trolls, goblins, orcs, etc). Generally, these are not a good sign, unless they are there for humour (all hail the great Sir Terry Pratchett). I can understand those who do like them, but for me, Anne McCaffrey did a wonderful job, and I haven't read a good dragon since (except as specified above).

Zombies are a definite no-no!

Then there is geography. Where do you set your story ...
For many years I tended to avoid fantasy books that had a map mixed in with the front matter, between the copyright statement and the Prologue. Then I realised that sometimes those maps were necessary - though I still think they tend to be overdone (unless they are really important, needed for constant reference, they could on the website, not in the books).

So the question to the author here is whether you set your story in the world as it is (e. g. see Storm Front?) or a mediaeval Earth (find your own example - parts of Crimes Against Magic might qualify) or a completely made-up world - and in that case, is the geography really that important? (and if not, reduce the maps!)

But always, the great over-riding factors are firstly, is there a good story? And secondly, do I identify with one of the lead characters? Do I like the lead characters? And if not, do I want to stick with the book long enough to see them get their just deserts? (e.g. A Dangerous Energy).

And I just checked back over some of my favourites, and confirmed - a well-written story is the key, it overrides all other considerations.

I think as I am getting not younger (lets not use the o word) my tastes are changing. When I was younger I love the epic fantasy stuff. Big quests, scary monsters to battle, betrayal by a friend at that final hurdle. Those things that made LOTR so amazing.
But now a days I find, on their own, those traits boring. Fantasy now has to be original and not the same tricks written again and again with new names and places.

I think that is why I enjoy Brandon Sanderson so much. The magic systems that he uses are so very original. Not just a magic object but the use of metal to do various different things. Also Brian McClellan's powder mage series again is another big hit for me this year.

I also love a stupid/funny character. You cannot beat someone with the witty one liners. That can sometimes pull me through a book and get me invested in a character when the rest of the book is a bit unappealing to me. A great example is Bodger and Grift from The Book of Words series by JV Jones. They do absolutely nothing for the plot, but they have me (embarrassingly) laughing out loud no matter where I am when their scenes come along.

Another series/author that stands out to me is The Outstretched Shadow. Even though it was set in an old world rather than a whole new one it seems to keep its freshness and the characters compel me to sacrifice all else in my life to just keep the pages turning.

So I guess now my main draw to a series is originality rather than any plot ideas or theme.

Lel - I think I agree with you on changing tastes, I do love originality in a book. However I do sometimes think it depends what mood I'm in as a 'typical' fantasy can be nice when you're tired and aren't feeling up to concentrating on unusual plotlines. Also I sometimes find it difficult when an author tries to be too out there and original as the story flow can sometimes become jarring as they try to for it all in.

On a funny note I saw a review panning Neil Gaiman stating they thought he made it up as he went along. Shocking that in a fantasy writer ☺ Thats what I like to see in fantasy

I'm confused, surely that's how books develop? :P not everyone has a plan fully formed when they start writing a book! and the number of authors who have almost written themselves into corners on series' !

Strange stuff ☺
A plan is not a bad idea but an author has to be able to change and adapt as it goes.

Forever I leaned more towards SF with an occasional fantasy book thrown in from time to time. Recently I've been on a big fantasy kick though especially Brandon Sanderson's books. I think what speaks to me is the "scientific" way he approaches the magic in his book. It's not just magic wands or magical beast. His magic has rules and all though in some cases he bends the laws of physics it still makes sense in the worlds he creates.


I agree with others and fundamentally I want my fantasy to be set in worlds different than ours. Characters are of course important but world building is equally if not more important to me.

Tastes change. Things I would have liked when I was younger are no longer what I look for now that I am more familiar with the tropes -- and writing has trained me into habits of criticizing more.

But some things that can help me like a work are intriguing worlds, beautiful English style, good plots, and characters I can root for. Moral distinctions -- nothing makes me dislike a book more than the realization that it doesn't matter which side wins because they are both stinkers, except for the burning desire to see both sides lose.

And sense of wonder. Especially.

I look for all the things I want in a non-speculative fiction story, as well as cool ideas. Which is probably why I seem to always mark fantasy and sci-fi more harshly than anything else.

When I pick up a fantasy book I'm looking for dragons, a unique magic system, an interesting world, diverse group of characters, lore of that realm, an interesting world that I can lose myself in, or any combination of these things.

Personally I'm a sucker for world building and origin stories, I really enjoyed blood song and tower Lord by Anthony Ryan, the gentleman bastards series by Scott lynch, and Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive to name a few.

I'm really into interesting and unique systems of magic as well as epic world building. My all time favorite fantasy novel is "A Wizard of Earthsea" by Ursula Le Guin. The idea of using a the language of creation to create magic is incredible, and the limitation being the wizard's own knowledge or ability to find the right word(s) is especially thought provoking. I also feel the book has a great message, which I won't mention as it might kind of spoil the book. Come to think of it, I should probably recommend it for Book of the Month. It really is a must read.

That said, I also liked Brandon Sanderson's Elantris and the Mistborn series for their unique magic systems. I loved The Wheel of Time books for their intrigue, and different world and political systems. However, I felt that his magic system was pretty lame and was basically without limits (meh). And of course mad props to Tolkien for his EPIC world building and attention to detail. That said, I have never been able to actually finish Lord of the Rings because it just moves too too slow.

I also agree with Mary about language style. I don't care how awesome your magic system or world building is. If your language is rudimentary or juvenile I just can't get into it.

Does anyone else share this problem with me? : where you start to many series and have too many going at once and forget when things are being released or how many books there are and then when the books are released you have forgotten lots of what is going on. I have actually started a notebook where I make brief notes about the books I read so can refresh my knowledge before starting the next without having to reread the previous book.

I Know this doesn't completely fit this thread but talking about all the things we like: character development, world building, magic systems, it all gets hard to remember, especially now that some are getting to be very complex (but still awesome) at times.

Maybe it's just me and my sometimes un-stellar memory :)

That's why I have a shelf marked future-publish-date here.

Really, being able to track releases is one of Goodreads great charms.

That's a great idea! I'm not the best with apps and websites and such so am a little slow to pick up on things like that. Thank-you for a good idea though :)

Lancer: I have the same problem and constantly add things to me wish list just to keep an eye out for what's coming out.
I read quite quick and therefore get through a lot of books so constantly forget bits in series so every time a new book comes out I start back at the beginning of the series, which takes a while when there are 15 plus books in the series.

which brings up the big aspect of looking for a fantasy book: most books are bought by people already familiar with the author.

Mary wrote: "That's why I have a shelf marked future-publish-date here.

Really, being able to track releases is one of Goodreads great charms."

This and the bookshelf were why I started using goodreads to begin with, I didn't realize there were groups til much later. I'm still only a member of one group....

Mary that's true hut sometimes I'll take a leap of faith and just grab a book that looks interest without knowing anything about the author or series, have found some great books that way that I likely wouldn't have otherwise

Lancer wrote: "Mary that's true hut sometimes I'll take a leap of faith and just grab a book that looks interest without knowing anything about the author or series, have found some great books that way that I l..."

You've got to, after all. How else are you going to find out authors worth following?