Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Niki Hawkes wrote: "I don't know that it would necessarily be a paranormal ROMANCE (that would depend on what's driving the plot) but that example is definitely either paranormal or urban fantasy. To me it would be either uf or pnr, not fantasy. The vampire is the deciding factor - a supernatural element.

While we're on the subject, I've always thought of steampunk as a historical (usually 1920s era) with clockwork elements. Even fantasy with a 1920s feel with mechanics and black powder devices. What in your "Victorian era England where the princess of England falls for Svenn the Nordic Vampire" says steampunk to you?."

I don't think of it being the 1920's but earlier, before cars and planes. Victorian England is more the setting in that time frame. HG Wells steampunk novels were all turn of the century or before. I guess again I'm taking a much broader range.

Both of these are a futuristic different world steampunk.

The Aeronaut's Windlass
Retribution Falls

One has dirigibles and the other pirates.

Both of these are Victorian England and most people actually have them as UF not Steampunk. So I guess I'm in the minority here but I was considering Steampunk an era which included devices from the mid 1800's through early 1900's typically in a setting that was UF for that time period.

The Oversight
Neverwhere

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

Ah, okay. Do they have the clockwork element?"

Yes, but I haven't read that many of them yet. The ones I've read have clockwork type stuff and dirigible airships, sort of like the Gnomes in fantasy with their inventions.

Tammie wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

Ah, okay. Do they have the clockwork element?"

Yes, but I haven't read that many of t..."

That makes sense. Based on that, I think I've only read the non paranormal ones, which I would just call steampunk urban fantasy. Do we have a headache yet? :P

Scott wrote: "So a vampire story told in Victorian era England where the princess of England falls for Svenn the Nordic Vampire wouldn't be PNR? That makes no sense to me. It would fit into both Steampunk and PNR. "

At best I'd say it was steampunk with some paranormal elements.

PNR is pretty readily understood as "paranormal romance" - with the romance being the main point of the story.

The London Steampunk series by Bec McMaster is an example of steampunk romance with paranormal elements. Note that every book features a different couple in the book's world, which is a hallmark of the romance genre. So despite the steampunk setting and the paranormal elements, I always see it shelved in the romance section at my local B&N stores, rather than in the UF/fantasy section.

Flintlock is a subcategory of military fantasy but could be considered steampunk in nature.

Both

The Thousand Names
Promise of Blood

Are Historical fiction or alternative fiction being loosely based around the French Revolution. Promise of Blood has Russian Revolution plot lines as well.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote:
lol, you know you've hit superfandom when the distinctions start to matter haha. ."

lol, for sure! Ok so Ketty Jay is steampunk fantasy leveled up. That works.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

Ah, okay. Do they have the clockwork element?"

You're way too hung up on the clockwork element. That's only one characteristic of steampunk. And yes Ketty Jay is 100% a futuristic steampunk as is Aeronaut's windlass. Generally things with Pirates and dirigibles fall into that category.

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "I don't know that it would necessarily be a paranormal ROMANCE (that would depend on what's driving the plot) but that example is definitely either paranormal or urban fantasy. ..."

I'd categorize aeronanut's windlass as a steampunk fantasy, for sure. And I think your time-range is definitely more accurate than mine for the steampunk era. I've apparently read very specific steampunks lol.

I think I'm still of the opinion that if it has supernatural, it can be an uf (with the romance-focus to pnr exception). If it doesn't have supernatural, then it gets put into one of the fantasy categories. Your vampire example is more ur because of the supernatural element.

Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

TY! I need an ally vs the human bookstore. :)

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

Ah, okay. Do they have the clockwork element?"

You're way too hung up on the clockwor..."

I must be. That's another sub-category I'd love to see flushed out. Right now my uneducated paradigm says steampunk does not exist without clockwork, but I suppose they could be very distinct concepts that often intertwine.

Scott wrote: "Tammie wrote: "There are a lot of steampunk fantasies that are set in Victorian England."

TY! I need an ally vs the human bookstore. :)"

I wasn't asking where you saw steampunk elements to point out that I didn't think there were any – I genuinely wanted to know what I was missing because that's a genre I'm apparently still quite vague on lol.

Steampunk really starts to get complicated with all the subgenres... most is victorian around 1870... some is regency around 1820... dieselpunk is another genre in american 1920s... I've heard of aetherpunk... steamfantasy...

As a joke I want to call your steampunk pnr Steamy Romance lol

To figure out what category a book goes in, I think you just have to figure out what the book's main focus is. Sometimes it's hard to figure out when a book seems to focus on more than one thing equally though. That's when I get a little confused. Scott thanks for the definition of Steampunk. I will add the Ketty Jay books to that shelf now. Um, should I add Waking Fire to Flintlock?

I just label everything steampunk-adjacent steampunk in my shelves... I labeled Ketty Jay steampunk, but the airships sounded closer to spaceships than your average steampunk... which really just upped the Firefly similarities in my head...

Iain wrote: "Steampunk really starts to get complicated with all the subgenres... most is victorian around 1870... some is regency around 1820... dieselpunk is another genre in american 1920s... I've heard of a..."

That makes sense. I think I've been reading primarily dieselpunk lol. And aetherpunk (which is my new fav term lol)

Iain wrote: "Steampunk really starts to get complicated with all the subgenres... most is victorian around 1870... some is regency around 1820... dieselpunk is another genre in american 1920s... I've heard of a..."

Steamy romance, lol.

Tammie wrote: "To figure out what category a book goes in, I think you just have to figure out what the book's main focus is. Sometimes it's hard to figure out when a book seems to focus on more than one thing eq..."

The most important elements of waking fire in my mind are the dragons and their impact on the world, which makes me want to put it in fantasy. However, I don't think it would be out of place in the Flintlock category, either. Personal preference… Or, you could put it in BOTH shelves and convolute everything haha.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "I must be. That's another sub-category I'd love to see flushed out. Right now my uneducated paradigm says steampunk does not exist without clockwork, but I suppose they could be very distinct concepts that often intertwine. ."

There's zero clockwork in Aeronaut which you admitted was steampunk.

For me steampunk would have one or more of these elements.

Pirates, dirigibles, set during the industrial revolution, contains quirky magical devices but not limited to clockwork. It would be a magic parasol if set in the correct era, a magical circus The Night Circus, a magical seat in an opera house.....

Iain wrote: "I just label everything steampunk-adjacent steampunk in my shelves... I labeled Ketty Jay steampunk, but the airships sounded closer to spaceships than your average steampunk... which really just u..."

Yeah that's where I got confused. The airships were so different.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "I wasn't asking where you saw steampunk elements to point out that I didn't think there were any – I genuinely wanted to know what I was missing because that's a genre I'm apparently still quite vague on lol."

I'm just teasing because you are the queen of putting things in bins.

Tammie wrote: "Iain wrote: "I just label everything steampunk-adjacent steampunk in my shelves... I labeled Ketty Jay steampunk, but the airships sounded closer to spaceships than your average steampunk... which ..."

It's the swash buckling pirates that make it steampunk or perhaps modern or sci-fi steampunk.

Iain wrote: "I just label everything steampunk-adjacent steampunk in my shelves... I labeled Ketty Jay steampunk, but the airships sounded closer to spaceships than your average steampunk... which really just u..."

So basically Ketty Jay is dieselpunk and Aeronaut's Windlass is aetherpunk. Got it...I think. Haha. I'll just name the shelf "steampunk related".

Veronica wrote: "Scott wrote: "So a vampire story told in Victorian era England where the princess of England falls for Svenn the Nordic Vampire wouldn't be PNR? That makes no sense to me. It would fit into both St..."
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Note that every book features a different couple in the book's world, which is a hallmark of the romance genre. So despite the steampunk setting and the paranormal elements, I always see it shelved in the romance section at my local B&N stores, rather than in the UF/fantasy section. <-
Is the love story the most prominent aspect of the novels? (Will they get together? as the driving force?) Because that's what usually has BN put it in romance over fantasy. The different characters per book to me says they are more concerned about character/relationship growth over a single book, rather than a larger non-romance story arc that usually takes place over a series. Based on my own criteria and the criteria I think BN uses to sort their books, however, I did occasionally notice a few instances where I think the PNR books would've been better served in the fantasy section. This might be a great example of that if they're more plot-driven than romance-driven.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Tammie wrote: "To figure out what category a book goes in, I think you just have to figure out what the book's main focus is. Sometimes it's hard to figure out when a book seems to focus on more th..."

I've added quite a few books to more than one shelf haha.

Oh my god this thread exploded...

And then we have Categorypunk.

Chris wrote: "Oh my god this thread exploded...

And then we have Categorypunk."

lol, yeah I was just thinking we have moved on from what the topic is supposed to be. And I'm partly to blame for that, sorry!

I used to have a bunch more shelves to include all the sub-genres. Then I said, "screw it!", deleted a bunch of shelves, and now everything goes into the main categories. If I can't recall the little aspects of the story to differentiate it from other sub-genres then it must've not been good enough since it didn't make a strong enough impression.

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "I wasn't asking where you saw steampunk elements to point out that I didn't think there were any – I genuinely wanted to know what I was missing because that's a genre I'm appar..."

Just making sure you knew I wasn't getting on your case. You know, so when I actually DO, it's clear. :P

Half of what I like about steampunk is seeing what the authors decide to do with it... a lot include vampires and werewolves... Iron Seas has Mongolia take over the world with nano swarms... Agatha H is all about Mad Science... Parasol Protectorate is all about manners and preternatural soullessness... Darkest London with its steampunk fairytale retellings...

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "I must be. That's another sub-category I'd love to see flushed out. Right now my uneducated paradigm says steampunk does not exist without clockwork, but I suppose they could be..."

Ah okay, that's a great perspective, thank you.

Aeronaut has flying airships... aren't those run using some sort of cogs? lol I guess he doesn't actually specify any clockwork elements in how things run, I just assumed they were there.

Tammie wrote: "Chris wrote: "Oh my god this thread exploded...

And then we have Categorypunk."

lol, yeah I was just thinking we have moved on from what the topic is supposed to be. And I'm partly to blame for t..."

Naw, it happens as part of healthy discussion. :)

I did some googling and aetherpunk is steampunk with magic... and I remembered gaslamp fantasy which is apparently steampunk with less focus on the machinery/tech of it all

Iain wrote: "I did some googling and aetherpunk is steampunk with magic... and I remembered gaslamp fantasy which is apparently steampunk with less focus on the machinery/tech of it all"

Ok interesting. I just changed my shelf title to steampunk related. That should cover them all.

I've I ever make one, it will be called: Steampunk...Maybe.

Steampunkish

Me reading this conversation. All the genres and sub genres is mega confusing to me haha.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Aeronaut has flying airships... aren't those run using some sort of cogs? lol I guess he doesn't actually specify any clockwork elements in how things run, I just assumed they were there."

No, in fact they're run on crystals which one of the high families holds a monopoly on if I remember correctly.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "I've I ever make one, it will be called: Steampunk...Maybe."

Niki is having issues forming sentences. This lack of organization is her anti love language.

Niki Hawkes wrote: "Just making sure you knew I wasn't getting on your case. You know, so when I actually DO, it's clear. :P"

Hi, married with a all girls quidditch team for daughters. I'm used to it. :)

Liam wrote: "Me reading this conversation. All the genres and sub genres is mega confusing to me haha."

Just wait until it's cyberporn vs cybersmut day and Margret has her say.

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Aeronaut has flying airships... aren't those run using some sort of cogs? lol I guess he doesn't actually specify any clockwork elements in how things run, I just assumed they w..."

Do they have wings? Like projections out the side that flap and help steer? Like oars? Only run mechanically? lmao

I blame Butcher for his lack of sequels. I read it as an arc and will probably have to waste time rereading before the next one.

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "I've I ever make one, it will be called: Steampunk...Maybe."

Niki is having issues forming sentences. This lack of organization is her anti love language."

I can't even don't write. mfh.

Liam wrote: "Me reading this conversation. All the genres and sub genres is mega confusing to me haha.


"

lol. I have a headache.

Scott wrote: "Niki Hawkes wrote: "Just making sure you knew I wasn't getting on your case. You know, so when I actually DO, it's clear. :P"

Hi, married with a all girls quidditch team for daughters. I'm used to..."

I'd totally be a beater. lol

I refer to it all as ****punk... but I don't really want a shelf named that so steampunk it is...

I have whiplash from all of this back and forth conversation....

Lol Liam, I'm with you!

Scott- just try to listen/read Kushiel's Dart and you'll laugh at how uncomfortable I must have been listening to an olde English lady narrate about "pincers" for certain areas... my monocle fell out of my eye socket and I nearly fainted... had to DNF that novel and securely lock my book-chastity belt back on..

Margret wrote: "I have whiplash from all of this back and forth conversation....

Lol Liam, I'm with you!

Scott- just try to listen/read Kushiel's Dart and you'll laugh at how uncomfortable I must have been lis..."

I'm laughing so hard right now

Oh dude, I just could not bring myself to write down the EXACT quote... so. much. worse.

Margret wrote: "Oh dude, I just could not bring myself to write down the EXACT quote... so. much. worse."

I've read it. :D lmao

I know, so I feel like we're being those cryptic people who annoy others by our talking publicly but not divulging things fully..