SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

This started in What Else Are You Reading? regarding the Nantucket Trilogy by S.M. Stirling. All 3 are Group Reads.

I gave up on the Dies the Fire series, also by Stirling. I've read all Connie Willis' Oxford Time Travel books (4 of which are Group Reads). I found Harry Turtledove pretty boring (we read Opening Atlantis). I remember reading some lost Roman legion book but it was trash.

What else is out there? Bring on the recommendations.

Honest, it is better than the blurb makes it sound.

Doomsday Book, Fire Watch and To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis are all good
and
Outlander and the subsequent books in the series by Diana Gabaldon are OK
and
Kindred by Octavia Butler is excellent

I have a problem with most Alternative History Books as they mostly seem to be one of these categories: Nazis won WWII, the South stayed separate in the Civil War, or the Arabs took over Europe with a small subset of Japan took over the world. They also seem to have a strong element of militarism and battles involved in them. I can't think of one I've enjoyed that was considered Alt Hist (feel free to list ones I might like though)

Time and Again by Jack Finney, and I second the Doomsday Book.
Jude Deveraux A Knight in Shining Armour is excellent. I was very surprised how much I like it. Get past the first chapter as it seems very romance/weak damsel in distress story. Ignore it. The rest is excellent and the historical details are great.

I've already read Doomsday Book, To Say Nothing of the Dog, Blackout/All Clear, and Kindred. They've all been Group Reads.

Time and Again was OK. I think I'll skip Jude Deveraux and Diana Gabaldon. Romance is just not that interesting for me.

The Book of Kells is interesting
as is
Woman on the Edge of Time
and
Ilium plus the sequel Olympos
and
Andre Norton's The Time Traders, Galactic Derelict, The Defiant Agents and Key Out of Time all part of the same series

I shall add some of those to my list. I've read Ilium. Not quite what I'm looking for but an interesting read. Dan Simmons needs to learn how to write smaller books.

Farthing by Jo Walton. I think that's a whole series but I only read the first.

The Andre Norton ones are shorter books, but some of them are like Heinlein's early books: more for a YA audience. I like her books though.

Kim wrote: "What else is out there? Bring on the recommendations. "

I presume you mean time travel only within "our" world and history, rather than in various other worlds, whether they be Secondary World Fantasy or future-based Science Fiction. I'm thinking of books like The Dragonriders of Pern, or The Myriad, or various comic book stories, all of which feature time travel.

Based on that assumption, I've enjoyed most of Kage Baker's series about The Company (Dr. Zeus, Inc.), with its time-traveling cyborgs. I read the second one first, Sky Coyote, but had no problem following it. I can't recall offhand what the first one is.

Another one I like is Mammoth by John Varley, which is a fun book. This is Varley at half speed, but even him phoning it in is better than 90% of other writers' work.

Similarly, Joe Haldeman's The Accidental Time Machine is pretty good, although I recall there was an extended slow part in the middle.

I remember enjoying James P. Hogan's Thrice Upon a Time, which is about time *communication* rather than time travel, but I'm not going to vouch for it fully because it's been a good 37 years since I read it, and I'm not holding my 15-year-old self to the same standards.

For a sort of left-field alt-history there is Dale Cozart's American Indian Victories - Revised & Expanded, which proposes alternate paths US history might have taken. I've only read part of the original edition, but it's more along the lines of essays than stories.

Kind of an oddball literary time-travel tale is Glimpses by Lewis Shiner, which has his protagonist visiting his rock'n'roll idols at the heights of their powers.

Then there's The Chronoliths, which is about how society reacts when monoliths from the future suddenly appear all over the world.

Thanks Trike. You're right, I should have specified Earth history or real history. Otherwise it's not really alt history. Like Ilium isn't something I'd consider alt history.

I did enjoy The Accidental Time Machine. Kage Baker is a name I've heard a lot but never read. I shall definitely add a few of these to my list.

Kim wrote: "Thanks Trike. You're right, I should have specified Earth history or real history. Otherwise it's not really alt history. Like Ilium isn't something I'd consider alt history.

I did en..."

Ilium is the Trojan war (earth historical if you believe Homer), but a changed Trojan war recreated by "the Gods" according to Homer's epics. I'd call it semi-historical or possibly even alt-historical. It's an odd book that doesn't fit neatly into a definite category.

Also, I rather like the Wildcards series from G.R.R.Martin and others for the alternate history there - it's a world of superheroes, and while some of the stories are fairly straightforward superhero fare, there's some that really delve into the alternate history aspects, such as one story which dealt with how the HUAC hearings would go in a world where superheroes were perceived as the threat to America more than communists.

Time and time again by Ben Elton.
Making History by Stephen Fry.
Hard magic by Larry Correia.
The man in the high castle by Phillip K Dick.
I enjoyed all of those.

Take this recommendation with a grain of salt because I’ve really read very little Alternate History, and I’m not at all a history buff so I’m not too picky about whether or not story elements make sense in a historical context.

I really liked the Belisarius series by Eric Flint and David Drake. The first book is An Oblique Approach. The books made me laugh, and I loved the characters. There are a lot of battles, probably more than the Nantucket series, and yet I never got bored with them like I did with Nantucket. I enjoyed all the strategic planning and the action itself. The only complaint I had was that there aren’t many shades of gray. The good guys are heroic and clever, and the bad guys are blinded by evil ambition. But I enjoyed the good guys so much that I didn’t care as much as I might have otherwise.

It’s a 6-book series, and they tell a larger story, but there aren’t any cliff hangers and each book wraps its own part of the story up well. Quality-wise, the series is pretty consistent. I enjoyed them all and I don’t remember ever thinking the story got tedious.

Kim wrote: "I've already read Doomsday Book, To Say Nothing of the Dog, Blackout/All Clear, and Kindred. They've all been Group Reads.

[boo..."

I never read romance either, but Jude Deveraux was a surprise. The historical details were fantastic, as were the characters comments and thoughts on them from a modern woman's perspective.

if we're going to venture into non-fantasy/scifi territory, these aren't bad:

The House on the Strand is drug induced time travel
Green Darkness is psychologist induced inhabiting another person's head who's in the past

and I'd forgotten about Rysa Walker's Chronos Series:
Timebound is the first book

A more recent one is All Our Wrong Todays- there's a lot of alternate futures/time travel in it. Underground Airlines is a world where the American Civil War didn't happen. I've just started reading Terry Bisson's Fire on the Mountain, and so far it's pretty good. My favourite that I've read recently is That Inevitable Victorian Thing- Queen Victoria decided that all of her descendants should marry into various cultures/races in an attempt to get rid of racism, and it's a lot of fun.

Leo wrote: "Also, I rather like the Wildcards series from G.R.R.Martin and others for the alternate history there - it's a world of superheroes

I like the Wild Cards series. I should really pick it up again. I wonder how the tv show will go with no G.R.R. Martin involvement.

Kev wrote: "Time and time again by Ben Elton.
Making History by Stephen Fry.
Hard magic by Larry Correia.
The man in the high castle by Phillip K Dick.
I enjoyed all of those."

I was disappointed with Making History. I expected better from Stephen Fry. I've liked Ben Elton's work in tv, will definitely pick up Time and Time Again. Not a fan of Correia so I'll stay away from that. The Man in the High Castle is one of my favourite books. If you've not read it you should try Fatherland by Robert Harris.

CBRetriever wrote: "if we're going to venture into non-fantasy/scifi territory, these aren't bad:

The House on the Strand is drug induced time travel"

Looks like my library has this one so I'll take a look.

Jen wrote: "Underground Airlines is a world where the American Civil War didn't happen."

Sarah has been trying to get me to read this, I had no idea what it was about. On the list it goes!

I've wanted to read Fatherland for a while, but I've never gotten around to it. I will do one day, it sounds like something I'd really like.

My favorite Alt History books:

1632 by Eric Flint. Though the series kind of went bonkers in terms of number of characters to keep track of and especially in the slowness in telling the overall story. I think they are on something like book 30 something and they are only in year . . . 1636 I think.

Both Gail Carriger's Finishing School series which is a prequel series to Parasol Protectorate series.

Harry Turtledove (yes, I saw the 'bored' comment):
Ruled Britannia (if nothing else this one is a stand alone book with no connection to any other Turtledove book).
Worldwar series.
Crosstime Traffic series (though entire series is lowly rated on here)

Warren Ellis' Ministry of Space (though it's a graphic novel)

John Maddox Roberts' Hannibal's Chilrden duology. & (unrelated to prior series) King of the Wood

Eric Flint's The Rivers of War (which became a series, but I'm only favorite-ing the first book).

Harry Harrison's Hammer and Cross series.

Harry Harrison's A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah! (though it does have a 'low' rating on here).

Michael Flynn's In the Country of the Blind

Robert Conroy's 1901, 1942, 1945, Red Inferno

John Birmingham's Weapons of Choice (series kind of fizzled, but interesting initial book(s)).

Douglas Niles & Michael Dobson's MacArthur's War: A Novel of the Invasion of Japan & Fox on the Rhine series.

Brendan DuBois' Resurrection Day

Thanks for the big list. I'll have to find some time to go through it all. I'm pretty sure I picked up some of the Worldwar series prior to reading Opening Atlantis.

My issue with that book is that it could have been so much more interesting. But it was basically a retelling of the European invasion of North America, just on a new continent.

Of all of the Turtledove series, Opening Atlantis wasn't my least favorite, but it was close to being my least favorite. That Timeline 191 edges out Opening Atlantis as least favorite series (191 includes one prequel, 'How Few Remain', and three mini-series - Turtledove loves breaking up his series into mini-series).

The concept of 'Opening Atlantis' was interesting. The execution was poor. One of the problems with Turtledove is that he seems to write series that never seem to actually go anywhere, and he's super slow at it (as in, there's a lot of head hopping that seems to indicate a lot of stuff is occurring, but once the book is over you realize that nothing much actually happened - not that all of his series are like that). This is one of the reasons why I no longer read Turtledove. And only include a few of the books I did read by him on my Goodreads shelves.

I'll second Ministry of Space. It's super good.

John Crowley won the World Fantasy Award for best novella with Great Work of Time. I found it in a short story collection by him, but it's also been published independently. One of the most hauntingly bleak stories I have ever read.

The premise is that the British Empire never fell. It's both alt history and time travel, since the time travel is what alters history.

The High Crusade
This is an interesting alt reality book.


A somewhat amped up High Crusade. The first book is pretty good, the series tends to fade


Very early Turtledove...and in my less than humble opinion probably his best. An interesting premise that he doesn't run into the ground.

It might already be known, but there's an award specifically for Alternate History, in case anyone was interested in glancing over nominees and award winners - http://www.uchronia.net/sidewise/

1995-2016 (though 2016 award winners are on a different page.

That website has a ton of information on it that is helpful - like, want to read book wherein the pivot point occurred in a specific year? Well look at the 'Divergence Chronology' page.

The Anubis Gates - also one of my fave steampunk novels
Timeline - it's Crichton so it's fun

UNDERGROUND AIRLINES is great!

What did you like about it?

Kev wrote: "Time and time again by Ben Elton."

Really enjoyed this, thanks for the recommendation.

Jen wrote: "Underground Airlines is a world where the American Civil War didn't happen."

I also got to this a couple weeks ago, really good book.

Just picked up THE ANUBIS GATES at the library...

Glad you enjoyed it Kim.

It has been a long time since I read it, so this is only a tentative suggestion as it may not actually be as good/interesting as I remember, but Lest Darkness Fall by L. Sprague de Camp is about someone accidentally travelling back to ancient Rome and trying to stop the Dark Ages from happening.

Last Year has an interesting take on time travel, with a business based on monetising a portal to the 19th century.

You may want to read the novels by Poul Anderson, starting with .

Quick short story suggestion - "Two Dooms" by Cyril Kornbluth; alt ending to WW2

The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August by Claire North is pretty good.

I am also a fan of Underground Airlines. It's set in a present, with four states that are still part of the Confederacy, of sorts. I like the descriptions of why the world is different. I also like the conflicted main character.

The Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead doesn't have time travel, it's alternative history, like the above novel, but it's set firmly in the 19th Century. In this book, the underground railroad is no metaphor, but an actual railroad.

Another alternative history that I love: The Yiddish Policemen's Union by Michael Chabon. There is no Israel, the Jewish people live in and around Sitka, Alaska, and this temporary state after 50 years is about to end.

Farthing by Jo Walton is also alt history and great.

Also, give Outlander by Diana Gabaldon a try. Not the first 50 pages possibly, but a sample. It has Romance, -- which a lot of readers skip-- but it also has History, great characters, medical history, adventure, espionage, politics, and woo- woo magical stuff.