2025 Reading Challenge discussion

This is the discussion thread for The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde Chapter 6-10

This is definitely where the book becomes really interesting! Wow these chapter have so far been my favorite.
I feel like I need to delve deeper into Oscar Wilde’s personal life and why he writes about women either as one dimensional or women characters are not taken seriously. (Obviously taking in the account of the era)
Lord Henry has some really strong feelings towards and about women, marriage and romance. Make me wonder how much of that is a reflection of Wilde’s mind.
Also, Dorian’s character growth in these chapters is Night a day. A romantic boy one night and the next day he’s colder and less emotional.

In these chapters it really seems like Basil and Lord Henry are the little angel and devil on Dorian's shoulder.

They really are! Lord Henry whispering in Dorian’s ear all the pure carnal fun he could have and Basil whispering conscience. It’s going to be interesting to see how the next chapters develop with Dorian being friends with both Heney and Basil.

Without moralizing, finding corollary to our modern world. The idea (posted in another thread because I realized am past chapter 5) of art, like political surety, an illusion, a house of cards upon which the undeveloped, unevolved Self is at risk of being revealed and whose chinks lay open the possibility for our most hideous to be played out.
Wilde is brilliant. Perhaps timeless, too.

It's like a twisted contest between good and evil to see who wins Dorian. All I have know of Dorian before is who is was on the T.V. series Penny Dreadful. I love this book because I get to see where it all started with him. Can't put it down.

I hadn't realized it but reading SarahKat comment about angel & demon, it is exactly how those chapters felt.

I'm quite amazed at how Dorian changed in these chapters; he went from a sweet boy to a heartless man. How paranoid he is about anyone finding his picture. It makes me think of Golum and the Ring; how his entire soul is within an object and he doesn't want anyone to find it or see it for fear of what they would discover.

Also, I don't know what to think of Henry's saying with regards to women. How he described the young girl death as being the ultimate way to show her love struck me as being some kind of way to make suicide more glorious than it is. As being "modern people", I don't know what to do or how to interpret his sayings on many subjects.

Cynthia wrote: "I'm quite amazed at how Dorian changed in these chapters; he went from a sweet boy to a heartless man ...Also, I don't know what to think of Henry's saying with regards to women. "

Yes he’s been thoroughly corrupted although there seems to be a tiny spark of good left. He reminds me of an addict, sneaking up to have a peek at the picture, not wanting to but just not able to help himself.
I highlighted some of Henry’s sayings, they were so revolting! To me he symbolizes evil perfectly. Step by step he corrupts Dorian’s soul probably losing interest after he’s finished like a cat will leave the mouse after he has killed it playing with it.

A'Dailya wrote: "This is definitely where the book becomes really interesting! Wow these chapter have so far been my favorite.
I feel like I need to delve deeper into Oscar Wilde’s personal life and why he writes ..."

What a great point! I hadn't noticed that- then again its not uncommon for writers of the time to ignore the women in their stories. If you havent read/seen An Ideal Husband or The Importance of Being Ernest you'll see an entirely diff treatment of women by Wilde

This is where Dorian's being molded not just by the angel & demon on his shoulders but also by the realization that he cannot suffer from his own wrongdoings. Its wonderful to see him reflect on how his sins are being visited not upon his conscious but up on his portrait.

Ah, just wonderful. With his seeing the first change in the painting his dawning understanding that everything will affect it and not himself reaches a point of crisis when Basil wants to see the painting. Dorian discovers the need to keep it secret and hide the painting away. And we are seeing the changes in his soul started with Lord Henry's tutelage and then the callousness brought on by Sibyl's horrendous performance are beginning to accelerate.

Finished Chapter 6 and 7. I find it interesting that Dorian cares more about how he looks in his portrait (how beautiful he is) than how he treats Sibyl. He never really loved her, he loved what she represented.

Finished 6 and 7. Dorian's cruelty is as over-the-top and quick as his love was. He gives into his passions too easily. He really did not like that Sibyl ruined his illusion. Then we get into his relationship with the painting more, Dorian looking at himself, sitting on a precipice-ready to be good or bad, given a wish come true.

I just finished chapter 6 so I'm just starting this section. I'm of two minds right now. On one hand, I think Wilde's observations, especially as verbalized by his likely alter-ego Lord Henry, are witty and amusing, like Victorian Era snark. On the other hand, Wilde's prose is a bit long in the tooth at times, especially his descriptions of setting and his dialogue which often meanders around just so he can fit in some more snark. I find that it's hard for me to read more than 7-8 pages without my mind wandering elsewhere.

Randy wrote: "......I find that it's hard for me to read more than 7-8 pages without my mind wandering elsewhere. ."

Curious how you'll like chapter 11....

It picked up after the first five chapters and I'm finding this to be very intriguing! There are still some dull moments like Dorian reading the book Lord Henry gave him, but the story's picking up.

Cynthia wrote: "How paranoid he is about anyone finding his picture. It makes me think of Golum and the Ring; how his entire soul is within an object and he doesn't want anyone to find it or see it for fear of what they would discover."

I LOLed at the Golum and the Ring.

Anyway, after seeing Dorian getting terrified of his realisation that the painting is changing because of his actions, him repenting, then him locking it up and realising that nobody, not even him, can see it, I'm curious to know if he will continue in his life of repentance or he'll use it to his advantage and be as hellish as he can. Seeing how sneaky he was with Basil, I would think that it'd be the latter...

Such an interesting read. Feels like a take on the malleability and motivations of youth. You have basil and henry both trying to influence dorian , while dorian is struggling with himself, although it's probably better to word it as struggling with his image.

Someone else stated sometimes their mind wanders after about 10 pages or so and I feel the same. On to 11!

Courtney wrote: "Someone else stated sometimes their mind wanders after about 10 pages or so and I feel the same. On to 11! "

Be prepared for your mind to wander off even more....

finished 8 and 9

finished chapter 8 & 9. I do not think this is about Basil being the good angel and Harry being the evil angel on Dorian shoulder. Harry is reasonable, scientific and logical whereas Basil is creative, emotive and original.
Just two different pathways through life.

Onto Chapter 11 and really struggling with this one. I don’t get this bit haha!! Will keep ploughing on...

100% context Susy!! My word. Need an emotional support group to get through ch11

Courtney wrote: "Need an emotional support group to get through ch11"

Lol, hang in there! It gets better after ch11 :)

Courtney let me join your “Ch11 Emotional Support Group”

finished 10 and 11 and loved it, Dorian is trying to fill his life (and probably himself) with beautiful and unique things and ideas, this not only demonstrates his fleeting attention and his constant ennui but to think that Oscar Wilde had all this information without google at his fingertips, that he took the time not only to gather it but to write it out painstakingly to convey such a confused and enamored mind always humbles me.

Still struggling with keeping focus, I find myself skipping everything but the conversations. Going to push through and finish.

It has gotten very interesting!! I was pretty bored reading chapters 1-5 but it picked up! I feel sorry Dorian everything Henry says to him impacts his life so deeply.

Almost done with this section and looking forward to getting to chapter 11.

Your wide variety of opinions is great. Is anyone here rereading this?

Blagica wrote: "Your wide variety of opinions is great. Is anyone here rereading this?"

I’m rereading it. It was about 8 years ago that I read it though so I don’t remember it well. All I remember was there was a page I thought was completely pointless and boring later on (I can’t mention what it is about here as it is in a later chapter) and the general feel of the book. I think I’m getting a lot more out of reading it this time than last time.

SarahKat wrote: "In these chapters it really seems like Basil and Lord Henry are the little angel and devil on Dorian's shoulder."

I never thought of that but I agree.

It was interesting to see Dorian go from being incredibly bothered about Sybil (well let’s be honest, he was bothered about his self-image and how his cruelty of her would affect him more than anything else) to not caring one bit and how he went from passion to coldness. It seemed to me that as soon as he saw the change in the portrait and discovered that he didn’t have to face the consequences of his actions that he could do whatever he wanted. It would no longer affect him and he doesn’t seem to care what happens to everyone else.

I will put the next two sentences in spoiler tags because although they don’t say anything about what happens in future chapters and that anyone with a vague idea of the story will already know, they do allude to them (view spoiler)[I do wonder what he would do if the portrait didn’t take the consequences for him. If he didn’t think he could get away with his actions, would he still do them? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 is so dense!

Between name drops and references, I believe the annotated version I am reading may have more text in the annotations than in the chapter itself.

For me these chapters have been very interesting, it has been very surprising when (view spoiler)[ Sybil commits suicide and how this affects Dorian, maybe if she hadn't done it the story would be different (hide spoiler)]. My favourite scenes of these chapters are when (view spoiler)[ you can see the start of his obsession with the picture, when he read Henry's book and the meaning of it for him, and when Basil confesses his love for him (hide spoiler)]. In the following chapters it seems that Dorian will be falling down into the dark side of London Society. I have big expectations about it.

I believe that Chapter 9 in the annotated version (based on the original text) is actually Chapter 11 in the version most of you have read.

I just completed chapters 6-10. I can't believe how much I'm into it. It is really interesting. I loved reading all of your comments on the angel and devil.

I like gothic books so this is right up my alley.

I'm hoping to complete this book the next couple of days.

I really enjoyed chapters 6-10 and now I'm stuck on 11 (and have been for over three days). Now I see I'm not the only one having difficulty with it. I too keep looking for dialogue and getting bogged down. I keep finding excuses to hop up and do something else.

I have a better feel now for Basil than I did in previous chapters where he just seemed kind of quiet and unobtrusive when compared to Henry's boisterous, loud opinions. In Chapter 9 I felt that Basil loves Dorian deeply, almost obsessively and was afraid that those feelings would be evident to anyone who saw his portrait of Dorian. He seeks out Dorian to show him support in what he believes is a time of need. This shows that he is also a good friend, and his compassion for Sybil's family portrayed that he was a good human being as well.

I like the analogy of the devil and angel on Dorian's shoulders. I guess that leaves me contemplating the whys of how a character would pick which voice to listen to over the other. Clearly, Henry at this point appears to be taking the lead. (I've read this book previously but it's been over 20 years so the details are lost to me).

I'm reminded of that old saying that beauty is only skin deep as I contemplate Dorian. He flies through emotions in such a quick and flippant manner then dismisses it all and moves on just as quickly. But why does he succumb to Henry's influence over Basil's? Because Henry's voice and presence is louder or more dominant? Because it's the fun way? Because it's easier than to feel deeply and to hurt?

An aside from reading the analyzation after this section, I found it interesting that the material Dorian used to cover the painting (hiding his shame away) was previously used for covering coffins. What an appropriate detail and just like me to miss all the tiny details. This is why I never did well in British lit because that is exactly the type of question that would have been on the pop quiz. LOL.

I'm determined to finish Ch. 11 today.

Kristy wrote: "I really enjoyed chapters 6-10 and now I'm stuck on 11 (and have been for over three days). Now I see I'm not the only one having difficulty with it. I too keep looking for dialogue and getting bogged down. I keep finding excuses to hop up and do something else.

Ch. 11 was a horror. I must admit that at a certain point I just glanced over the words without taking anything in really.... To me after that is when I started to like the story.

I have a better feel now for Basil than I did in previous chapters where he just seemed kind of quiet and unobtrusive when compared to Henry's boisterous, loud opinions. In Chapter 9 I felt that Basil loves Dorian deeply, almost obsessively and was afraid that those feelings would be evident to anyone who saw his portrait of Dorian. He seeks out Dorian to show him support in what he believes is a time of need. This shows that he is also a good friend, and his compassion for Sybil's family portrayed that he was a good human being as well.

Yes, I felt the same way.

An aside from reading the analyzation after this section, I found it interesting that the material Dorian used to cover the painting (hiding his shame away) was previously used for covering coffins. What an appropriate detail and just like me to miss all the tiny details. This is why I never did well in British lit because that is exactly the type of question that would have been on the pop quiz. LOL.

Missed that specific detail as well.....

I'm determined to finish Ch. 11 today. ."

Good luck Kristy!

Kristy Johnston wow I did catch the coffin covers I gotta re-read that part.