You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Annerlee and I have compared our shelves and decided to read The Quantum Thief by Hannu Rajaniemi. We'll discuss the book here in this thread.

We are the sci-fi twins.

Oh, and perfect pairing Janice - we have the same birthday! :-)

We had a lot of books in common but it didn't take long to choose what we would read.

I was desperately trying to find a suitable sci fi twin image to include in the thread but couldn't find anything.

Let me know if you have a better name for our thread Annerlee.

I think I might have to search your tbr Annerlee before the month is out to see if there are any books that aren't already on my wishlist but take my fancy.

Sarah wrote: "Oh, and perfect pairing Janice - we have the same birthday! :-)"

Haha, that's awesome!

Sarah wrote: "I think I might have to search your tbr Annerlee before the month is out to see if there are any books that aren't already on my wishlist but take my fancy."
I will be returning the favour. Your library is vast compared to mine - but I may be catching up

I love the thread name by the way. Thanks for setting it up Sarah.

Sarah wrote: "Oh, and perfect pairing Janice - we have the same birthday! :-)"

Madame Tutti Fruiti strikes again!

Annerlee wrote: "I love the thread name by the way. Thanks for setting it up Sarah ."

Excellent. No problem :-)

Sarah wrote: "Oh, and perfect pairing Janice - we have the same birthday! :-)"

How awesome is that! LOL!

Do you want to set a date to start or just read it when we can during the month?

I was planning to start on Mon 5th. I'm travelling all day, so I should be able to get some reading done. It would be nice to discuss as we went along, but if you want to dip in and out through the month, that's also ok with me.

Ok, i'll aim to start on the 5th too. Are you listening to the audio or do you have a print book? Mine is on my kindle.

Yay, we now have a picture. Nice one Annerlee for finding it :-)

The Quantum Thief looks so interesting! I'll definitely be following your discussion to see both your thoughts on it.

Sarah wrote: "Yay, we now have a picture. Nice one Annerlee for finding it :-)"

Great pic!

Amanda wrote: "The Quantum Thief looks so interesting! I'll definitely be following your discussion to see both your thoughts on it."

I'm hoping it won't be too confusing.

I love your thread pic. :)

Sarah wrote: "Ok, i'll aim to start on the 5th too. Are you listening to the audio or do you have a print book? Mine is on my kindle."

I'm reading on my kindle too

Amanda wrote: "The Quantum Thief looks so interesting! I'll definitely be following your discussion to see both your thoughts on it."

I think we have this also in common, Amanda, LOL.
It has been in my pile for ages, and I have had it planned for so many past challenges!, and for one or other reason, it keeps slipping away from me...!

The thread picture' looking good Sarah... : D

Im on the train / ferry home today so am on schedule to start reading in earnest. Having scanned the first few pages last night, I think I'll jot down notes as I go. It all sounds very weird and I know I'll forget names and small details, if I dont write them down.

Are you on track too?

I will start it tomorrow. I still have another book on the go too but I want to make a start on this one at the same time as you.

I started yesterday on the train. The first chapter was really confusing and I had to read it carefully a couple of times before I understood what was going on - at least I think I understand most of it now.

(view spoiler)[ There's a shift of viewpoint (from first to third person) which is a signal for a change of characters and place. I missed this on the first reading and got really confused. (hide spoiler)]

I am in chapter 1 too. I'll come back later once I've finished it. I agree it's confusing. What have we got ourselves in to?!?

Same here. The POV shift jarred me and I thought it was the same person talking which confused things. But it became clearer. Much clearer by the end of the chapter. So, (view spoiler)[Mieli committed a crime to go to prison to break Jean out. The ship is an entity with many entities a part if it. Like the borg. The ship is a collective. The ship helped Mieli and Jean escape prison but it seems they have transferred them in to different bodies. So what happens to their other bodies? Is it just consciousness that is transferred? In addition to the POV change, the italics also confused me. I think those are the ship talking though. It is reminding me of Ancillary Justice with the way the story is told and the ship. Have you read that? Are you liking it so far? I do. I'm hoping the way the story is told will become a bit easier so I can get things a bit straighter in my head. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2(view spoiler)[I'm not sure what just happened. So Jean and Mieli's bodies are robots? Androids? They have software and it seems they can restrict access to various functions. Jean was given root access by Mieli. The attack was odd. Not sure what the purpose was of eating that shard from the Archons attack. Who are they? Are they the prison owners? What does eating the shard do? Contain the prison they were trying to create to consume them again? Did you understand this bit any better than i did? Interesting that they stole the thief from prison not for his ability to steal or even him himself but who he used to be. I wonder who he used to be. So, are people reincarnated? Consciousness moved from body to body? Can bodies lose one consciousness and gain another one? Does it store some part of the previous one? i have lots of questions. (hide spoiler)]

I've started chapter 3 but not finished yet but we have new characters (view spoiler)[and I'm intrigued by the idea of gogol piracy. it's seems a gogol is a dead soul (or what I've been calling consciousness). It seems the pirates take the dead souls and put them in another body. Interesting that the detectives with the aid of the tzadik can resurrect crime victims to help solve the case. Love this idea. They even have resurrection men. It reminds of the short story by Scalzi (the title escapes at the moment). So are Jean and Mieli victims of gogol piracy? Or are they the pirates? Are their stories even linked to that of the detectives? The plot thickens. (hide spoiler)]

I haven't started chapter 3 yet but I've finished chapter 2. You've picked up on a few things I didn't; the collective idea for example. Hmm. I'm going to scan back and think about it, then write a summary.

You're right - it's hard to understand whats happening at times. I remember starting ch1 once before and giving up in confusion... Hoping it will get çlearer

I had a day off from reading this one yesterday so I could focus on my other book. But I'll be reading this one again today :-)

I have read chapter 3, interlude, and chapter 4 today. I really enjoyed chapter 3 (view spoiler)[with the detective element being brought in. It looks like the daughter sold the key to access her fathers root code or that thing beginning with g that I can't remember right now and was able to download his soul, leaving his body a shell, dead. I guess that's what happened to Meili and Jean's bodies when they escaped the prison. So is Jean one of these gogol thieves? (hide spoiler)]

The interlude introduced yet more characters (view spoiler)[no idea how this King comes in to the story (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 4(view spoiler)[it's interesting in the oubliette. It seems the planet or city is in the oubliette which moves around. I can go with that if I don't think too hard about it. There are loads if terms in here which are new too us. Some are explained and others are not. I'm glossing over things until they are explained, assuming I know what it means or I'll work it out being immersed in the world. It's kind of working. Things are making more sense. Ish. A couple people are clearly known or know Jean. Or Jean's body. Or who he used to be. This is all very intriguing. (hide spoiler)]

How are you getting on?

Chapter 5(view spoiler)[I'm really liking Isidore's chapters. At first I thought Pixel's people were from another planet but they seem like a gaming clan more than anything. More avatars of people.
I don't fully understand the group. Curious whether Isidore will get in trouble for the information he game to the reporter. I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for or pleased for him not being made in to a Tzaddik (I think that is what it's called). (hide spoiler)]

Interlude (view spoiler)[This interaction was a little odd. The guy was called Paul. At the end of the last chapter with Jean in, a guy identified him as Paul. So is the Paul in this interlude Jean or the soul that used to be in the body that Jean is now in. If that makes any sense to you. (hide spoiler)]

I might get a little more read today. But then I'll place it on hold until after the toppler. Which is a shame. I feel I need to keep all of this in my head as I'm worried I will be lost upon returning to it. Well more lost than I already am.

I think youre right. I'll read some more tonight, then put it on hold too.
Ive been so busy this week and haven't got as far as I would have liked. It's not a book you can rush either.

I've started reading this again now.

I've read another two chapters (6&7) and an interlude and I'm about to start chapter 8. I didn't make any notes though and now I'm trying to wrack my brains to think what happened during those chapters and I can't remember. Oh yes, something just came back to me (view spoiler)[Isidore went to see his father. He is a Quiet. He doesn't talk and lives in a harsh environment. Isidore had to wear some special suit to go there. Plus he called it a name (the place) which related to Death. He took flowers and at first I assumed her was going to be going to a cemetery and that his father was dead. There have been mentions of Quiets and how people end up that way but I don't understand it yet. (hide spoiler)]

I've just picked this up again too and have decided to type up some thoughts from my kindle notes, which will hopefully get me back into the text.

Chapter 1 part 1 (view spoiler)[The thief Flambeau is captive in The Prison, that is, multiple copies of his consciousness are - his living and dying are a simulation.
The Prison is controlled by the Archons (eternal minds) who are 'subcontractors' to the Solornost (upload collective that rules the inner solar system). It strikes me that there isn't anything happening in the physical world so far.
The Archons are testing game theory and evolution on the prisoners on a large scale. This is supposedly to improve and educate them but I'm not convinced.
Mieli has been smuggled into the Prison by the Pelligrini (?) to free a copy of Flambeur. The Pelligrini provides a simulation of Mieli's lover, Sydan, to keep her sane, but exits the simulation on seeing the Thief and releases Pelligrini into the Prison in a simulated peach stone. The Pelligrini expands and takes the form of a timeless , tall woman who helps them escape.
Note: as they fly up from the Prison, it shrinks into a seriesof squares or pixels. I think of the Prison as a computer simulation and am reminded of Conway's game of life ... seemingly complex patterns produced by simple rules on a computerised 2d grid: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conwa...

I think the passage with the boy is either F's dream after he 'dies' or a flashback to his youth... Not sure though)

Flambeau finally gets a physical body, altho he's not 100%sure this is true. He's in a space ship. there are still butterfly avatars of the ship's consciousness flying about, so virtual reality is still very much in action here. (hide spoiler)]

I'm typing this on my mini kindle with 1 finger, so apologies for the shortness in style and spelling mistakes. I'm splitting comments cos Im scared I'll mistype and everything will disappear : /

Wow. Seems you have a good understanding of what's going on. Open reading your chapter 1 spoiler i started to wonder if i had missed a hit as some of it didn't seem familiar. Odd.

No worries about multiple posts. I totally get not wanting to lose a lengthy post.

Chapter 1 part 2 (view spoiler)[ Mieli wants F to steal something for her. She wears the jewelled snske that once belonged to her lover and it is precious to her (what happened?) She has a connection to zF's new body and can hear and influence his thoughts. She can also use a Sobornost 'metscortex' and is a servant of the pelligrtini, but fears her. Mieli serves the Sobornist in some way. The ship is sentient and speaks through an AI. Mieli made the ship.
The ship speaks to F against Mieli's wishes, so there could be friction there later. The ship is bored... It likes action (hide spoiler)]

The chapter is surreal and disjointed. It's hard to find the thread of what's happening and to know what's important.

Sarah wrote: "Wow. Seems you have a good understanding of what's going on. Open reading your chapter 1 spoiler i started to wonder if i had missed a hit as some of it didn't seem familiar. Odd."

I had to read chapter 1 a few times and listened to it too (found it on youtube) before I could make any sense of it at all. That's why I've not got far. If it wasnt for this challenge, I may not have tried so hard😉
I think we both picked up on different things, which doesnt surprise me given the chaotic content! I just wonder how much sense later chapters will make, depending on which parts Ive missed. The Kindle search function may be very useful.

I am finding that the later chapters are generally easier to understand. I wish i'd been keeping a glossary as some terms were explained and now keep popping up without explanation. I'm just glossing over them but it doesn't seem to stop me understanding the general gist of what's going on. It vaguely reminds me of Neuromancer with all the made up terms and surrealness. Hmm, maybe i should use the search function to find out what those words mean.

I read another long chapter before bed last night so i'm at the half way mark now.

Sarah wrote: "I read another long chapter before bed last night so i'm at the half way mark now."

Good going. I'm going to write my next summary then crack on with chapter 3. I'm happy to hear it gets easier.

Sarah wrote: "I am finding that the later chapters are generally easier to understand. I wish i'd been keeping a glossary as some terms were explained and now keep popping up without explanation..."

I gave up on Neuromancer, but it's a book I still want to read sometime, just because of how prophetic it's supposed to be.

I really like Gibson's writing style and I've got used to not knowing what's going on when I read his stuff. Same for a few other authors who write in a similar way. Neuromancer is worth a read though. If you can accept you may not understand everything that's happening, you'll be ok. It is prophetic for sure but is definitely a little dated now. Same with a lot of the old school Cyberpunk. I would class Quantum Thief as Cyberpunk. But it's got a more modern feel to it.

I have read another long chapter and this time I was a bit lost until right at the end. I'm not sure I can even attempt to lit my thoughts done about that one. An interlude is up next so hopefully when I get back to the chapters after that my understanding will deepen.

I read a chunk more. I'm at a point where things are rapidly coming together. The interludes are making more sense now - whilst I followed along with them, I didn't feel they related to the story all that much. Part of me now wants to go back and read each of the interludes to see if I can glean more meaning from them. I have 55 pages left until I finish the book. I'm hoping to finish it today. I'll come back and comment then as I'm not sure what chapter I'm in now.

I just finished the book. I'll come back and comment when I have a bit more time. I enjoyed it and gave it 4 stars. I would be lying if I said I understand everything that happened in the book.

End of book spoilers (view spoiler)[I really liked Jean, Raymonde, Mieli, and Isidore. I thought they were all really interesting characters.

I found that I got used to the POV shifts so that stopped confusing me. Just as well really as the plot and all the technology was pretty mind boggling.

I found the pace of the story really picked up at one point and a lot was going on and I couldn't put it down.

Considering the book was quite short, the author packed a lot in to it. He never spoon fed us what was going on at any point, he just dumped us in the Oubliette to fend for ourselves. It was immersive and I found myself wide eyed.

I'm still not 100% sure what exactly happened. MOre of a vague idea. I reckon the book could use a reread to fully understand it. I think that's why I rated it a 4 stars rather than a 5. I think it could easily be a 5 star read though, if I had understood it more. I know there are more books in the series which I guess will develop things further.

I have just read through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... which helped clarify things a little. I wouldn't recommend reading it until you've finished the book but also there are spoilers for the follow up books so be careful.

(hide spoiler)]

How are you getting on?

Sarah wrote: "I've started chapter 3 but not finished yet but we have new characters"

I really liked chapter 3, it was refreshing after the weirdness of what went before - and any book with chocoloate in it is a hit with me!
I'm finding the book quite hard to keep up with, because so many details are thrown your way with little explanation. I find myself reading then re-tracking to improve my undertanding of what went before. e.g. when I looked up a definition of Oubliette:

oubliette. noun. A dungeon with a trapdoor in the ceiling as its only means of entrance or exit. Origin of oubliette. French from oublier to forget

I had an 'aha' moment (view spoiler)[that the oubliette in the book was some sort of hidden (subtle) external memory. This made complete sense, except that there also seem to be a group of people called oubliettes... so is this a shared attribute or a shared memory depot? (hide spoiler)]
Like you, I love some of the concepts introduced in this chapter.
Some of the ideas about different ways of communication and data sharing are really cool and I like the personal firewall that can open up as much about you as you like and make you invisible in public - that would be so useful.