All About Animals discussion

Discuss..."Where The Red Fern Grows" here for our Sept. 2014 book group read.

Okay, I'm going to cheat a little bit and watch this movie again. I picked it up from the library. Both movies 1 & 2.

I can see this discussion isn't exactly having a lot of people in it. I remember reading this book back in grade school where it was forced reading. Afterwards though the teacher played us the movie version of the book. I liked it well enough but I never really got into it because the book often revolved around hunting, which obviously makes since because the dogs were hunting dogs. I also don't tend to be a fan of the books that end the way this one and others like it do, but I did like how the dogs were represented and the overall feel of the book.

I read this book along time ago. Like you Jennifer probably in school. I don't remember much about the book though. I don't think it was one of my favorite back then for the same reason you say. I'm not a hunter, so it wouldn't have interested me much about the hunting talk.

I've read it a couple of times. I know it was required reading for school, since I actually live in the Arkansas Ozarks, about 70 miles away from the town of Talequah, Oklahoma, which is where Billy went to pick up his dogs. My grandpa raised hunting dogs, including coon hounds, and I've always associated this movie with him in my mind. I was 3 when he died so I barely remember him, but I always imagined he would have been a lot like Billy's grandpa. I remember crying when I read the book because the dogs died, and then crying even harder when I watched the movie. I've actually never seen the 2nd one, I need to get it and watch it. The original movie was filmed in Talequah and Vian, Oklahoma and I've visited both towns numerous times since they are so close to where I live.

Kim, Your library probably has the movies. My library doesn't charge for old movies and you can keep them out longer.

Barb wrote: "Kim, Your library probably has the movies. My library doesn't charge for old movies and you can keep them out longer."

I'll have to check and see. They do have a lot of movies and we don't have late fees so you can basically keep stuff as long as you want. They suggest three weeks and I usually honor that, but they don't throw me out if I'm a few weeks late bringing stuff back...LOL

Just about 5 months ago, one of my Twitter followers recommended "Where the Red Fern Grows" to me. She said she'd read this book as a child and loved it; I was surprised I'd never heard of it. I took the book out of the library, wondering if the book was loveable from the point of view of an adult. I could not put this book down! And I'm no kid! It was an amazing story of the transition from childhood to adulthood, from one way of life to another; the author tenderly brought to life a way of life experienced nowadays by few of us but once common right here in the USA; and the lives of the two dogs in the book, and their relationship with each other and their boy owner, just made my heart dance. There was much suspense throughout, and I was brought to tears at the end. I can say that I LOVED this book and it has made an indelible mark upon me.

Those who aren't fans of hunting would do well to remember that so many of the dogs we love nowadays were bred for hunting and other sporting activities, and dog-owners would do well to understand that these are inbred attributes of our now-beloved pets. Hunting was a way of life for people and a means for survival, and so it was in the not-too-long-ago days and lives of the American people so well and endearingly described in this small town and classic book.

Jane, I'm really glad you liked it.

Your right that back then people had to hunt and used dogs to do it.

Jane wrote: "Just about 5 months ago, one of my Twitter followers recommended "Where the Red Fern Grows" to me. She said she'd read this book as a child and loved it; I was surprised I'd never heard of it. I to..."

You make a good point. It's easy to forget how hunting was necessary back then.
I know my problems with the books were more related to the time period it was written about. I have nothing against the fact that they hunt in the book and really loved how amazing the dogs were at their job...the two dogs in it were definitely two of the best hunting dogs I ever read about. It's actually funny in a way that I'm not into hunting in books like this when I love reading about hunting from the point of view of animals.
I always find it interesting to see how the same skills dogs used and were bred for in the past are used in different ways today, though sometimes it's hard to believe hunting is an inbred trait when you own one who even runs from rabbits!

oh no no Barb!! you should never watch a film of a book you're about to read. There is nothing like the experience of reading it yourself without tainting your mind with the prejudices of a film seen through someone else's eyes. I read this book several times as a child, and even named my dog Old Dan. The pictures in my head are a million times better than the film. And the second film has nothing to do with the book either, so I was sorely disappointed that they gave it the same name.

ah i see you have mentioned you read the book before, but still :)

I wouldn't say this book was about hunting, though. This was a coming of age story. The relationships and trusts involved between Billy and his dogs and how he was forever changed by it.

Here is a good little snippet about how it came to be a book from wikipedia:

In a talk given to a group of schoolteachers, Wilson Rawls related how he wrote the first version of the novel (along with five full novels, and hundreds of short stories and novelettes) during the years that he worked on construction in Mexico, and later, in Idaho. He rolled the manuscripts up and saved them in a trunk at his parents' home. When he met his fiance Sophie, he did not want her to know about his failed dreams of becoming a writer, so about a week before he got married he visited his parents and burned all his manuscripts. He then returned to Idaho and married Sophie. About three months later, he confessed to his wife that he had burned all his manuscripts and had always dreamed of being a writer. She encouraged him to rewrite one of his stories. He quit his job and wrote the novel in just six weeks. He said, "I had it memorized." He would not let her read it until it was finished. He said, "I finished it on a Friday. I gave it to her Saturday morning and I went to town. I stayed in town all day. I knew she had time to read it. I called her on the phone. I just knew she was going to laugh at that writing...but when I called on the phone, she said, 'You get back out here to the house, I want to talk to you...this is the most wonderful dog and boy story I've ever heard in my life.'" She encouraged him to lengthen the story, because she felt it was too short to be a novel but too long to be a short story. He went to work on lengthening the manuscript. He wrote it longhand. She then typed it up and submitted it to the Saturday Evening Post.

The Saturday Evening Post rejected the manuscript in just 3 weeks. Sophie then sent the manuscript to the Ladies Home Journal. She believed that a woman editor at the Ladies Home Journal would like the story. About four months later, Rawls received a letter from the Ladies Home Journal saying that it was the wrong kind of story for their magazine, but they wanted to send it to the Saturday Evening Post. Upon the second submission to the Saturday Evening Post, it was accepted. It was first published in serialization in the Saturday Evening Post in 1961 under the title The Hounds of Youth.

DoubleDay then accepted the book for publication. Rawls said DoubleDay then "broke my heart." They changed the title to Where the Red Fern Grows, and attempted to market it to adult readers. For about six years, it languished on shelves and failed to sell. DoubleDay was going to put it out of print, but one agent named Mr. Breinholt from Salt Lake City fought for it and asked for just a few more months to market it. He got Rawls a speaking engagement at the University of Utah to a conference of over 5,000 reading teachers and librarians. Copies of it were made available to them. When they took it back to their schools, the children loved it, and orders began pouring in. Jim Trelease states, "Each year since then, it has sold more copies than the previous year."

Jennifer wrote: "...I remember reading this book back in grade school where it was forced reading. ..."

I find it interesting that you thought of it as 'forced' reading. One of the things I loved about school was that they found some fab books for us to read and even gave us a copy we didn't have to pay for. I had a teacher once who told me that the normal books were too simple for me and she gave me other books as well. They were all amazing, she gave me

The Dollmaker

and a complete collection of Bernard Malamud

which I devoured, and I loved these 3 in particular

The Assistant, The Fixer, and The Natural

Jazzy wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "...I remember reading this book back in grade school where it was forced reading. ..."

I find it interesting that you thought of it as 'forced' reading. One of the things I loved ..."

I didn't exactly mean it the way that sounded. I guess I refer to them as 'forced' reading because I prefer to choose what I want to read and by the time we read this book I had a habit of checking out my limit in library books so anything else was often a distraction. I suppose you could say I just never liked being told what I had to read even if it was something I wanted to read anyway. Real forced reading was anything I read before second grade as I hated reading back then.
I really did enjoy most of the books that were chosen for school reading especially any that had to do with animals such as this one.

Ah, Jennifer. I think the word you're looking for is REQUIRED. Required reading is lovely. I miss those days when required reading was a novel that played out upon the stage of my imagination All too soon it became list of invoices and figures for the last fiscal year. My dad used to make us carry a book everywhere we went in case we got time to do some reading. I read for a library and read to children in school.

I loved how Billy carried the pups home in a sack.

If no one here has any spoilers to worry about here is a wonderful, wonderful review of Where The Red Fern Grows. And if you haven't read the book, read this afterwards.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Where_...

Jazzy wrote: "My dad used to make us carry a book everywhere we went in case we got time to do some reading. I read for a library and read to children in school.

I loved how Billy carried the pups home in a sa..."

Thanks for sharing that review. That is perhaps the best review of this book I have ever read. I never reread books yet now I want to reread this one to see if I get anything more out of it than I did back when I read it at school.
Also, for some reason, until reading that, I didn't realize that the same author wrote both this book and The Summer of the Monkeys-a book that was recommended to me by one of my teachers which, I was a little reluctant to read at first, but ended up really liking.

I forgot about that book too, although i've also read it. Have you read Toby Tyler or Ten Weeks with a Circus? You can get it free for the kindle app.

Wow Jazzy! I loved how the book came to be. And, I think the original title was good. I think I may have picked it up back then faster with the original name.

I believe it was required reading when I was in school too. I remember I liked the book, but don't remember much about it. However, I love animal books.

I have not read this book in a long time but it made such a lasting impression. It was the first book that every made me cry my eyes out! I've never watched the movies because the book made me so sad.

it's hard to believe hunting is an inbred trait when you own one who even runs from rabbits!

Ha ha! I suppose that there's a curve, really, those who excel in these traits, those who are way behind the curve (don't know your dog's breed....) Obviously Old Dan and Little Anne excel. Somebody recently pointed me to the book "Lewis and Clark and Me" and in it you see how the Labrador Retrievers helped the explorers to bring the fish in. Dogs are amazing and highly specialized, and it was mostly for their practical attributes to help people survive that they were bred. If a dog breed was too tall, he was no good as a hunter because other animals would see him too easily, a dog breed too heavy he could not jump back in the boat. So many breeders today don't breed for those qualities any longer and we've lost touch of our animals' histories.

THEN there was the loyalty factor of the dogs, which "Where the Red Fern Grows" showed so beautifully.

We'll said Jane.

Kim wrote: "I've read it a couple of times. I know it was required reading for school, since I actually live in the Arkansas Ozarks, about 70 miles away from the town of Talequah, Oklahoma, which is where Bill..."

This is really interesting, Kim. I didn't realize the towns were real - not made up or made-up names. Even better, as a glimpse and slice of American and way of life.

Jane wrote: "Kim wrote: "I've read it a couple of times. I know it was required reading for school, since I actually live in the Arkansas Ozarks, about 70 miles away from the town of Talequah, Oklahoma, which i..."

The whole book is so true-to-life, very realistic in every way according to the stories I've heard the "old folks" tell that lived through the time period of the story.

I read somewhere the book was actually semi-autobiographical. Wilson could easily have been Billy. I'll see what I can find on the net.

Here is what wikipedia has to say

Woodrow Wilson Rawls, (September 24, 1913 – December 16, 1984) was an American writer best known for his books Where the Red Fern Grows and Summer of the Monkeys.

When Rawls was fifteen, the United States economy entered a depression, prompting his family to leave their Oklahoma home for California; however, the family's convertible broke down near Albuquerque, New Mexico, where Rawls's father found a job.

As an adult during the 1930s and 1940s, Rawls became a carpenter and traveled to South America, Canada, and Alaska. He wrote five manuscripts during this period, including Where the Red Fern Grows. Rawls's original manuscripts contained many spelling and grammar errors. Because of this, he kept the manuscripts hidden in a trunk in his father's workshop.

In the late 1950s, Rawls worked for a construction company on a guided missile range in the Southwest. Later, he transferred to a construction site near Idaho Falls to work on a contract for the Atomic Energy Commission. Rawls lived in a cabin near Mud Lake. While working there, Rawls met his future wife, Sophie Ann Styczinski, a budget analyst for the Atomic Energy Commission. The couple married on August 23, 1958.

Even though Rawls's novels received much praise, he was perhaps most influential as a motivational speaker. Rawls visited 2,000 schools in twenty-two states before being diagnosed with cancer in 1983. Although Rawls and his wife had no children, he felt that he had many children in his fans. He once commented,

"Children are always asking me what advice I can give them on trying to be a writer. I always tell them to do a lot of reading, read and study creative writing, then start writing and keep writing and then they can be a writer too. Someday they will make it if they don’t give up."

The only audience of his first hand-scribbled stories was his pet, a Bluetick Coonhound.


Statue of characters in “Where The Red Fern Grows” at the Public Library in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Entitled ‘“Dreams Can Come True” Wilson Rawls author of Where The Red Fern Grows.’ Sculpture by Marilyn Hoff Hansen

(Woodrow) Wilson Rawls was born on September 24, 1913, in the Ozark country of Scraper, Oklahoma. His mother home-schooled her children, and after Rawls read Jack London's canine-centered tale Call of the Wild, he decided to become a writer.

http://www.gradesaver.com/author/wils...

His parents were Minzy Rawls and Winnie Hatfield Rawls. There were no schools near his home, so his mother taught her children. She ordered books through the mail, read them out loud, and then let her children read them. Woody wasn't interested in books because they were "girl stories," but then his mother brought Jack London's Call of the Wild into their home. Woody's imagination was fired by this story of a man and his dog.

As a teenager and young adult, he traveled through the USA, South America, and Canada, working on construction jobs—among them, Alaska's Alcan Highway. On his travels, he began writing stories. Embarassed by his poor grammar and spelling skills, he kept his efforts locked away in a trunk.

He married Sophie Styczinski in 1958 in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Shortly before their marriage, he emptied his trunk of rejected manuscripts and burned them. He didn't want his new wife to know about them. Eventually, Sophie heard about his writing and encouraged Woody to submit one of the stories. He sat down and rewrote her suggested story in three weeks, 35,000 words. Sophie edited it and they sent it in to the Saturday Evening Post. The magazine serialized the story in 1961, publishing it in three parts, calling it "The Hounds of Youth." Later, Doubleday published it as the book we now know as Where the Red Fern Grows. Wilson Rawls had achieved his ambition of writing a book of the same stature as his idol, Jack London.

In 1973, the book was made into a movie. The production crew rebuilt Rawls' childhood home in the Ozarks, and asked the Rawls to visit the set. Rawls said, "I stayed for ten days and relived my youth. It was wonderful." He wrote another book, Summer of the Monkeys, which was published before Rawls died in Marshfield, Wisconsin, in 1984. Woody and Sophie lived in Cornell, Wisconsin from 1975 to 1984. Today, thanks to Jim Trelease telling the people of Idaho Falls the story of their one-time resident who made his dreams come true, there is a statue of Billy Colman and his two dogs in front of the Idaho Falls Public Library, a reminder of the power of the stories about boys, men, and dogs.

http://www.childrensliteraturenetwork...

Childhood Memories Relived

Idaho Falls author prepares to attend world
movie premier of his book
"Where the Red Fern Grows"

(Selected material from article printed in Post-Register on March 17, 1974.
The complete article is available on microfilm at the Idaho Falls Public Library)

"During those 10 days last fall down on the river in Oklahoma, I saw my entire boyhood relived. It's beautiful country, fine acting, and it's a wonderful movie. It's going to become a classic."

This is the feeling expressed by Wilson Rawls, author of one of the nation's best-selling children's books "Where the Red Fern Grows." Rawls' book a story recalling the days of his youth in the Ozarks, has been made into a movie.

Rawls and his wife spent a great deal of time on location in Oklahoma when the movie was being made. For the movie, a house identical to that of Rawls' home as a youngster was constructed by the Cherokee Indian nation and has now been moved to an Indian village as a tourist attraction.

"It is hard to believe that all this could happen to a person like me," notes this very personable author.

Rawls' story is as interesting as his book. When he was a young man his family left his Oklahoma, bound for California, but only made it as far as New Mexico. Rawls, having very little education took up carpentry as an occupation. He recalls always having a desire hovering in the back of his mind urging him to write. It was during his younger years that he wrote five manuscripts including "Where the Red Fern Grows," but due to his lack of education he would feel ashamed each time he reread them. "The spelling was bad and I know absolutely no punctuation. I was so ashamed of my work that I burned all five manuscripts."

In the late 1950's, he was working for a construction company on a guided missile range in the Southwest, which obtained a contract at the AED Site west of Idaho Falls. Rawls was then transferred to this area.

Not enjoying the long bus rides to the site, he soon obtained a cabin in the Mud Lake area. It was in Mud Lake, that he met his wife.

After telling her of burning his five manuscripts, Mrs. Rawls convinced her husband to start rewriting It was early in the 1960's when he completed rewriting "Where the Red Fern Grows." She then undertook the job of editing the book, getting it ready to send to the publishers.

"Saturday Evening Post" purchased the rights to the book and printed it in serial form under the name "Hounds of Youth." After this, Doubleday and Company Inc,. printed "Where the Red Fern Grows" in book form. It became an extremely popular book for teachers who liked to read to their students in grade schools.

When the book started to show signs of being a success Doubleday started booking speaking engagement for Rawls in schools across the nation. "I always take my second original manuscript of 'Where the Red Fern Grows' to show the youngsters. I want to stress to them how important it is to learn to spell, punctuate, and mainly how important it is for them to stay in school. They always look at the manuscript in disbelief. I hope I have some effect on these youngsters, I so enjoy each and every one of them."

Late in 1972, a film representative from Hollywood, Lyman Dayton, arrived on the Rawls' doorstep, asking for the rights to the movie and vowing he would not change the name or the version, Rawls then agreed to sell the company the rights.

"We heard rumors about the film but nothing ever real important. I just figured that they had decided to drop the entire matter, maybe due to high production costs, etc.

Then one day late last summer, Mrs. Rawls and I were getting ready to go fishing, a pastime we especially enjoy. The phone rang, it was Lyman Dayton calling from Oklahoma, wanting us to drive down. He said there was something down there he wanted us to see. Not having anything better to do at the time we decided to go. Dayton had told us to drive down to the river where I was born.

"When we arrived I'd never seen such excitement; the road to the river was blocked for a mile or so with cars and people. We finally made our way to a gate where a guard was posted. Still not knowing what to expect, I told the guard I was Rawls and I thought someone was expecting us. 'They sure are,' the guard said, and told us to walk down to the river.

It was hard to believe when we reached the river, there was my old home rebuilt and all the actors on location.

I stayed for 10 days and relived my youth. It was wonderful.

The Rawls recently returned from Hollywood where they were shown the movie. Also, Rawls recorded the narration for the movie. "I have never done anything like this before; I was like a fish out of water. I am a real worrier. I even get sick on such occasions, however, after a couple of bad starts, it went smoothly until the end. I then had trouble and finally actor, Jack Ging came to my rescue, calming me down and telling me to be natural. I was then able to finish the narration."

http://www.ifpl.org/index.asp?p=rawls...

Jazzy wrote: "I forgot about that book too, although i've also read it. Have you read Toby Tyler or Ten Weeks with a Circus? You can get it free for the kindle app."

I have heard of it but haven't read it though that's probably because I only knew about the movie which I haven't watched that either though I think I fast forwarded through it once.

Jane wrote: "it's hard to believe hunting is an inbred trait when you own one who even runs from rabbits!

Ha ha! I suppose that there's a curve, really, those who excel in these traits, those who are way behi..."

My dog's just a lazy Chihuahua who was found as a tiny puppy in a woman's front yard. We aren't positive if he's a purebred or a mix. One person told us she thinks he is a mix between a shorthaired and a longhaired Chihuahua but we will never really know. I know he wasn't well bred for his breed as he would lose a lot of points in a show ring but he does have a great personality overall. He usually acts more like a cat than a dog and my grandma actually felt compelled one day to look up what the usefulness of a Chihuahua is supposed to be because he sleeps all day, won't play with anything except his dog food, and thinks commands are suggestions. The most active he gets is when he goes outside looking for a nice warm sunny spot to nap in. I don't think my dog is good at anything that is typical of dogs in general such as most of the time he lets us know a stranger has been in the house after they have left. If he is sleeping nothing wakes him up so he's not much of a watchdog. He also has the doggy version of ADD so he's quite the interesting challenge when I call him and he starts coming only to get distracted by something else and never arrive. He also loves bike rides and car rides but if he has to walk to get somewhere he doesn't find it worth doing. I love my dog but he really makes me miss the poodle I used to have. Back then I had my poodle to walk and play with and my Chihuahua to cuddle with at the end of the day. My poodle was a typical dog who would chase small animals, except cats after getting scratched as a pup, and he was active. The only things not typical to his breeding was his aggression and hate of water. He was actually a purebred poodle my grandma bought for me and my sister. Somehow I don't think I will ever have a dog that really fits perfectly into their breed description but I prefer the unusual type dogs anyway.
And now I am really off topic so I will stop here and attempt to get back to the subject this thread is supposed to be about.

Re: Toby Tyler or Ten Weeks with a Circus..."

I thought of that book because of the relationship with Toby and the chimpanzee, Mr. Stubbs. I read it as a child but cannot forget it.

Book Discussion Questions:

1. What makes Old Dan and Little Ann different from most hounds?

2. What does the red fern symbolize?

3. How does Wilson Rawls portray women? Does he use too many stereotypes?

4. How are the dogs made real? Do they seem like humans? They seem to have distinct personalities. What details does Rawls include to describe their personalities?

5. Look again at the first chapter of Where the Red Fern Grows. What does it show about Billy's personality?

6. What is the role of religion in the novel?

Here's my review I posted, but be warned that there is a SPOILER toward the end of my review.

I have the word Spoiler before my comments if you didn't read the book.

Remember about the SPOILER TOWARD THE END OF THE REVIEW....

Here's my link: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I liked the part where Billy is in bed and sees his mom going out with food to the dogs. I thought it seemed like a special moment with Billy watching his mom care for his dogs.

SPOILER ALERT QUESTION......


SPOILER ALERT QUESTION....


**Did Dan die from the bullies dog attack or from the bully himself? I wasn't quite clear on that.

Thought this photo was perfect for this book while we're reading it..

https://www.goodreads.com/photo/group...

Love it!

Kim wrote: "Love it!"

I thought that picture was a good one.

I watched the 2nd movie. It was a lot similar in a way to the first except Billy is grown up. He comes back from WW2 and his leg was shot off. His grandpa gets him two more coon dogs who he names Dan and Ann like the first two. He befriends a neighbor boy whom he sees himself like when he was a boy.

They go hunting and Billy finds out life isn't fair when he again loses loved ones.