The Sword and Laser discussion

All the polls for the first round matchups of the March vote are up,

https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/4...

Like in previous years two books will go up each week in a head to head vote and the one with the most votes moves on until we have two books in one final poll at the end of the month to pick the April book.

UNLIKE previous years we have broken the tournament up into a Sword and a Laser section.

So there are 8 fantasy books going up against each other and 8 science fiction books. The final week will pit one sword vs one laser book!

Round 1 is open for voting until Midnight Eastern on March 6th.

Oh and if you want to see the brackets all laid out tournament style we have that at the website - http://swordandlaser.com/march-madness/

Thank you! May the best book win!

(Clearly House of Suns ;-) )

In a slight quirk on my view of the polls the final vote from last year showed up as poll #8 for me, and this years last poll of the first round showed up as poll #9. It was easy to see, but I’d hate for anyone to miss voting because they missed it.

It also could have just shown up like that for me, since they are usually in order by age, with the newest first.

William wrote: "Thank you! May the best book win!

(Clearly House of Suns ;-) )"

Clearly.

C'mon folks, it's a galaxy spanning epic featuring people who've evolved into space whales, and shiny metal robots and the disappearance of the entire Andromeda galaxy.

Unfortunately it has to fight against the book I want to read (probably the highest priority in the current list), Autonomous.

John (Nevets) wrote: "In a slight quirk on my view of the polls the final vote from last year showed up as poll #8 for me, and this years last poll of the first round showed up as poll #9. It was easy to see, but I’d hate for anyone to miss voting because they missed it."

Yes, it was the same for me. I got the old poll dropped back down below the current polls.

Yes it could have been confusing.

Tom wrote: "All the polls for the first round matchups of the March vote are up."

Hooray! I love this stage. Already some tough choices to be made in round one though.

I've put my prediction for overall winner in a sealed envelope. (Okay, I haven't actually done that, but I have a strong feeling about what it might be.)

I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?

Here's direct links to all the polls (and books):

Round 1: Sword Match 1: The Way of Kings vs. All the Crooked Saints
Round 1: Sword Match 2: Theft of Swords vs. Jade City
Round 1: Sword Match 3: Soulless vs. The Last Unicorn
Round 1: Sword Match 4: Midnight Riot (aka Rivers of London) vs. Shades of Milk and Honey

Round 1: Laser Match 1: We Are Legion (We Are Bob) vs. The Woman Who Thought She Was a Planet and Other Stories
Round 1: Laser Match 2: Autonomous vs. House of Suns
Round 1: Laser Match 3: Six Wakes vs. Consider Phlebas
Round 1: Laser Match 4: The Sirens of Titan vs. Oryx and Crake

Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

Maybe you didn't read the FAQ? :-P

Which books will be selected? Whichever books Tom & Veronica want. They will simply use the nominations in this thread for suggestions.

I'm pretty sure last year had a book that wasn't nominated as well.

So of course I'm rooting for Theft of Swords to win it all, but it's first going to have to get past Jade City.

Funnily enough, I told Dara a month ago was probably going to make Theft of Sword lose when she said she was going to nominate it. I didn't think it would be in the first round though! :(

And even if it makes it out of round 1, I feel like The Way of Kings may be impossible to stop. Then again I'll guess there are folks who will simply vote against it (rather than voting for whoever it's up against) because of length or because the group has already Sanderson, or simply because he's so popular.

I loved WoK. It's actually probably my favorite book of those on the list I've previously read (4 of the 16). However, I hope we don't end up reading it. It's too big/long and there are a lot of other great books in the bracket.

On the Sci-Fi side I'm personally pulling for We Are Legion (We Are Bob).

I've read one book by Reynolds and it kind of turned me off of him as a writer. All of my friends seem to love him though, so maybe I should give him a second chance.

I'm really looking forward to another fun bracket this year! Let's go Theft of Swords! If it actually wins this year I'll have to figure out something else to nominate next year. Otherwise I'll nominate it again! lol.

Excellent selection, although I'm a little bit sad mine didn't make it. But I'm excited for all the voting rounds coming up.

Interesting selections! Funny how the only two books to get nominated that I've already read (Soulless and The Last Unicorn) have ended up going against each other.

I think the thing I like most about March Madness is no matter what book actually wins, I always find lots of stuff to add to my "to read" list. ;)

I predict (I'm always wrong) that it will come down to Oryx and Crake vs The Way of Kings. Oryx and Crake will win.

^ As Way of Kings was my nomination I hope you continue to be wrong ;)

I kinda want to read Way of Kings but I also kinda don’t. I was looking at it at the library yesterday and it’s a thousand pages long. That’s a big damn book.

Trike wrote: "I kinda want to read Way of Kings but I also kinda don’t. I was looking at it at the library yesterday and it’s a thousand pages long. That’s a big damn book."

Fwiw, it doesn't feel that long. The pace picks up quickly, gathers momentum, and rarely lessens.

Trike wrote: "I kinda want to read Way of Kings but I also kinda don’t. I was looking at it at the library yesterday and it’s a thousand pages long. That’s a big damn book."

I'm about a quarter of the way through. It's good but hasn't completely grabbed me yet. But my husband loves this series and says to just keep going and it will get even better. But so far, I'd recommend it.

Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

It was nominated by Veronica and me. heh.

Tom wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

It was nominated by Veronica and me. heh."

Well, clearly since you didn't have enough suggestions from us - the S&L audience - you had to add your own suggestion to fill up the brackets, at this one and only time in the year when we get to have an input on what book we read in the group. Makes sense. *sarcasm*

Trike wrote: "I kinda want to read Way of Kings but I also kinda don’t. I was looking at it at the library yesterday and it’s a thousand pages long. That’s a big damn book."

I could totally understand if Way of Kings won the final, but while it sounds great (and I've enjoyed Sanderson before), I must say that being challenged to read a thousand page epic in a single month feels a bit like being challenged to sprint a marathon :-)

So far so good, there was actually one in each match up that I favored heavily over the other. No difficult choices :)

P.S. We have read books as long, if not longer, that Way of Kings before. i.e. 1Q84

Thanks Rob for the links. Just used 'em.

I predict a final round of Bobiverse vs. Sanderson for the CHAMpionship of the WOOOOOORRRLLLLDDDDD!

AndrewP wrote: "We have read books as long, if not longer, that Way of Kings before. i.e. 1Q84..."

I'd better start limbering up then ;-)

I have to admit, I'm hoping All the Crooked Saints will knock The Way of Kings out of contention, since I nominated it and I've already read TWoK.

Linnea wrote: "Well, clearly since you didn't have enough suggestions from us - the S&L audience - you had to add your own suggestion to fill up the brackets, at this one and only time in the year when we get to have an input on what book we read in the group. Makes sense. *sarcasm*"

That seems a little harsh. It was clear in the nomination thread that the nominations were going to be considered, but that other factors were also being considered.

Also, perhaps if you aren't already a patron, you could support the book club on Patreon. I seem to remember times where suggestions were solicited there.

Caitlin Duck wrote: "I have to admit, I'm hoping All the Crooked Saints will knock The Way of Kings out of contention, since I nominated it and I've already read TWoK.

Linnea wrote: "Well, clearly since you didn't hav..."

Yes, I know what it said in the nominations thread, and it was a problem then too.

When my economical situation improves, there are several things I want to support via Patreon, which may include Sword and Laser. But I would support it based on the material I also get without being a Patreon supporter. I do not, as a general rule, take part in things put behind a paywall.

Personally I think Tom and Veronica give us a lot of opportunities to influence what we read. Some have been Patron only votes. Some have been Patrons nominate, but everyone votes. Some have been Tom/Veronica nominate and everyone votes.

With regards to the tournament, I think getting 15/16 choices in this poll is still pretty good.

Of course It doesn't hurt that the book they added is already on my list. You don't have to vote for it though.

This is only the 3rd year we've done the March Madness and I find it fun every year regardless of which book wins. Just like the actual NCAA March Madness tournament, you can spend time arguing about the seeding, but once the bracket is set, the fun comes from predicting the bracket and seeing how horribly your predictions fell over.

Also, as others have stated, I end up reading other books from either the nomination thread or the final bracket just as a side effect of the tournament.

Rob wrote: "Personally I think Tom and Veronica give us a lot of opportunities to influence what we read. Some have been Patron only votes. Some have been Patrons nominate, but everyone votes. Some have been T..."

It certainly is fun! Which is why I gave the feedback I did, snarkily expressed as it may have been, because it could be even more fun if the rules were improved to be more audience supportive.

For this bracket, I'm supporting Way of Kings all the way!

Rob wrote: "Funnily enough, I told Dara a month ago was probably going to make Theft of Sword lose when she said she was going to nominate it. I didn't think it would be in the first round though! :("

Boo! Why do our nominations have to go head-to-head! I wanted both of them to go far! But as you said, it's unlikely either will beat The Way of Kings.

As for Autonomous, I thought someone else nominated it as well but no matter what, I'm glad to see it there. I loved it and it would prompt really interesting discussion.

Back to the general discussion - I love this bracket! I am going to have some really difficult decisions with my voting choices for this round. My only "easy" choices are where I've already read one of the books.
I like that there's a good amount of diversity among the authors chosen as well :)

Rob wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

Maybe you didn't read the FAQ? :-P"

Did anyone? ;-)

I missed that section :-)

Tom wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

It was nominated by Veronica and me. heh."

Cool :-)

I wasn't complaining. It is a good book. I was just confused when I didn't see it in the nominations list.

All good.

If you want to see at a glance which books you've already read or may have on hand to read (assuming this is something you keep track of in Goodreads), here's a list of the 2018 March Madness picks.

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

brutal brackets! :) looking forward to seeing what ends up being the pick.

All traditionally published books. Most of them from Orbit.

No love for the Indies this year.

Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

I do what I want.

Veronica wrote: "I do what I want."

Where have I seen that before. Where....have....I...seen...that...

Veronica wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

I do what I want."

Don’t make Veronica snap in a Z formation.

I'm hoping "The Way of Kings" wins. I got it free last year from Tor and need an excuse to start this lengthy tome.

I would like to see "We are Legion (We are Bob)" face it in the final.

Veronica wrote: "Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

I do what I want."

As Supreme Sword you have the right to make autonomous decisions.

See what I did there? ;-)

Linnea wrote: "it could be even more fun if the rules were improved to be more audience supportive.."

Really? Your first post was snarky and I laughed. Your second post made me realize I should make it clearer that not all patreon posts require you to be a patreon, including some voting posts.

But this last comment made me defensive. I almost always piock something suggested from the audience. Rivers Solomon was taken directly from a comment in Goodreads. I regularly do polls in here for the pick. And this tournament was almost entirely picked by your suggestions and will be entirely decided by your votes. I'm open to how to make that more audience supportive. Our decision to be the final say on what goes in the tournament was taken as a way to dissuade gaming and make sure we had a really fun balanced tournament while being as open to the audience as possible.

I think about this stuff a lot.

It is cool that all 8 Brackets are a Battle of the Sexes :-)

Rob wrote: "Here's direct links to all the polls (and books):

Round 1: Sword Match 1: The Way of Kings vs. All the Crooked Saints
Round 1: Sword Match 2: Theft of Swords vs. All the Crooked Saints
Round 1: Sword Match 2: [book:Theft of Swords|1..."

Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm confused. Autonomous wasn't nominated by anyone. :-?"

Thanks so much for this, Rob. It made voting super easy!!!

You're welcome

Tom wrote: "Linnea wrote: "it could be even more fun if the rules were improved to be more audience supportive.."

Really? Your first post was snarky and I laughed. Your second post made me realize I should ma..."

I'm glad my first post made you laugh, since that was partly the point with it. :) As for creating the bracket, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. In my personal opinion, there were nominations from the audience which were equally as good or better than Autonomous as a poll suggestion, and choosing one of those would have been the more audience supportive alternative since they were given for the specific purpose of hopefully ending up on this poll. It is fine for you to disagree with this, and run the poll your own way. I do not have experience with running a poll this size (number of voters), but I do help run a smaller book club where we each month take a vote for which book to read. As the person putting up the poll, it is very easy for me to - consciously or subconciously - skew the choices toward my own preferences, but I don't do this, because it would be a shitty thing to do to my fellow club members who together have created a long list of suggestions for that specific poll.

As for Patreon, I'm not sure I understand. You are saying you have posts/features on Patreon available for non-Patreon supporters? Then what's the point of putting it on Patreon, and not one of your generel forums (e.g. website)? (Note: I don't have problems with your Patreon in particular, but I have a few issues with the Patreon model in general.)

Rob wrote: "Here's direct links to all the polls (and books):."

Thanks for this, Rob! Super helpful when making my voting selections. Excited to see how things play out!

What’s craziest to me is how close these votes are. Only one is what I’d call a blowout so far and that one is unsurprising. There’s another one that’s 60-40ish and the rest are right with one that was a dead tie when I looked last night.

Linnea wrote: "Tom wrote: "Linnea wrote: "it could be even more fun if the rules were improved to be more audience supportive.."

Really? Your first post was snarky and I laughed. Your second post made me realize..."

I've been here since the video show (five years?) and I'm in several local small clubs as well. I personally think Tom and Veronica have a good balance. They put a huge amount of time and effort into making this a good club and do a good job of finding a variety of ways to have people pick.

Heck, they even gave up like a year of spare time to do an anthology.

This IS their baby. My local clubs are more egalitarian (actually, getting someone to pick a book at all can be a challenge). It's just a different kind of animal, IMO.

For what it is worth, overall I have found the dictatorial picks by Tom and Veronica tend to be better than the ones chosen with more audience involvement.

Serendi wrote: "Linnea wrote: "Tom wrote: "Linnea wrote: "it could be even more fun if the rules were improved to be more audience supportive.."

Really? Your first post was snarky and I laughed. Your second post ..."

I don't disagree with the point that Tom and Veronica has a good balance. They do. I'm disagreeing with the choice to add Autonomous to the poll, as that appears - to me - as a small way of skewing the poll to their preferences, in an activity (March Madness) that in my opinion should not be skewed. It may not be intended as such, but that is the way I interpret that choice. The good balance of book choices they have could still be kept, with the other alternatives given among the nominations. This is a problem for me. It's not a problem for you guys, and that's fine. It's not the end of the world, but I am nonetheless glad we've had this discussion. :)

Linnea wrote: "I'm disagreeing with the choice to add Autonomous to the poll, as that appears - to me - as a small way of skewing the poll to their preferences, in an activity (March Madness) that in my opinion should not be skewed."

I'm confused as to why you believe they want to skew the poll to their preferences. I've been a member here for over 5 years and find Tom and Veronica to be honest, genuine people. They wouldn't skew a forum bracket. They can choose what book we read every month of the year if they want to. Why would they sabotage March Madness? It doesn't make any sense.

Regardless, it's stated in the FAQ - seriously, guys. There's a FAQ - that our dear Roberator so painstakingly wrote and posted with every nominations update that states "Which books will be selected? Whichever books Tom & Veronica want. They will simply use the nominations in this thread for suggestions." I don't see why it's a big deal for them to throw in a book of their choosing. They're actually really good at choosing books. Who knew?