Not Problematic? discussion

Not even 5% into the book, and you have two men trading a woman like a commodity!

"I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul"

I had different expectations in returning to Piers Anthony's On a Pale Horse. For some reason, I thought the book had much more sex and violence when I was younger, but this time through, I found the philosophical questions much more interesting (and honestly, there wasn't much sex or violence). After a little bit of research, I found that the novel actually inspired the TV show Dead Like Me and the video game Grimfandango. I think this cultural weight helped put the book in even more perspective and made the journey more enjoyable.

My first impression was a tension between the bureaucratic components of life and death, even the language "client - business - appointments" made me feel a distain for how Anthony articulated the afterlife. I wasn't aware until the end (with the author's notes) that this was meant to be a critique of such systems. It read, at first, as an 80's capitalism fantasy. Death as debt collection - souls or purgatory as office work. Particularly the idea of evil as a sort of debt which must be paid off or repaid. I thought purgatory was reminiscent of Beetlejuice.

I liked how the failure of instinct lead to the seduction of death - or a death calling of sorts. It's as if one can call for death, but only if they are in balance between good and evil. I also enjoyed the idea that love was about not being repelled by another's evil. Although I was interested in how we are "best defined by the nature of our evil" - but I didn't get a clear sense of how that operated in the text. What is the nature of our evil? Who defines the nature?

There was another section where Anthony writes, "A person is often his own enemy if he knows it" - I very much liked this sentiment, although the scene that articulates how this idea functions was a little bit convoluted for me - this is also where Anthony discusses the idea of "I was 3" - which resonates with the individualism vs multiplicity in identity construction. He also links this to "wave and particle" which seems almost ahead of his time in how we understand how physics operates currently.

I also found myself, maybe because of my current political concerns, thinking about the "entities, immortals, and mortals" as the judicial, executive, and congressional branches of government. I don't think this idea played out through the whole text, but merely caught me at certain times.

I will admit that I wasn't a fan of how he wrote women in the text. It often seemed to me that they were introduced through their sexualization first and then used as a foil for the protagonist to complete the hero's journey. I understand the quest for pure love is what guides the protagonist to fully articulate his role (he comes into being as death in a way), but I was never interested in the plight of the women or their underlying depth. In some ways, especially in the first part of the book, they seem to serve as objects with not much interest beyond their sexuality. It felt almost like a teenager working through their understanding of women rather than someone who could write through the depth of a female experience. Although, this changes a little bit throughout the text and I was happy that Anthony never tried to engage the characters in a full out sex scene. Not that I'm opposed to reading this type of material, but it would have seemed out of place in his writing. I think he may negotiate this issue in some of the additional books - I believe the next one is fate (which is a female protagonist) - but then again, in what ways are the entities defined by the social norms of gender. I think he could play with this some, but it's not essential for an enjoyable read.

One of the tensions I found was with how sin was doled out upon a specific person - such as the young boy of 10 who carried 50% sin because he was molested. I don't know how to grapple with how the erotic implicated him within such a system. I think there is a tension here with agency. There is a mention of how the law discriminates because of a jealousy of the young, but I wanted to know more here. Also, there might be a link to how Christianity produces sin, but I didn't really have enough to develop the idea in the narrative.

I thought the luna (lunar/moon) would come into play, but maybe that is more down the line.

I'm also interested in how God is defined as incorruptible, yet creates a system with inherent corruptions - how is witnessing an act of implication in such corruption? Can God witness then? I think this was also interesting to reflect on in the author's notes when Anthony specifies that he is an atheist - which brings some of these ideas into focus, but I'm not sure what to do with it all - such as "break duties of office in good ways" - what is the judgement based upon? It's also interesting to me that God is all but absent in this book. He is mentioned, but always in a roundabout way. I'm interested to see where Antony goes with his concept of God.

As the book progressed forward, I felt like the trip to hell and thus the subsequent battle with the devil was entertaining. I didn't find myself with the same philosophical questions that emerged in the first half of the book, but I enjoyed it none the less. I also had a good time with the multiple ways the devil tries to manipulate Zane. I would have enjoyed some of these tactics even more - letting them run to their fullest extent - it seems like Anthony only wrote them to a degree in which he could have his protagonist escape. I never felt a sense of fear that Zane could easily overcome any challenge (aside from the main crux which starts the journey to hell - where Luna is devoured by the dragon).

I loved the author's note that discussed Anthony's love of gems and stones and how the beginning of the book starts with his own narrative reframed as the junk stone. I thought this played exceptionally well into the book, even if at the time, I thought the set up ran a little too long. I imagined the beginning of Gremlins when the father goes into the store and finds this important item that starts the journey for the rest of the characters.

Overall, I enjoyed returning to On a Pale Horse. I felt like the book was much richer than when I was young; and I was able to read into some of the ideas much more. I'm interested to see where the additional texts go and how he continues with his process. I also thought of BJ when he discussed how he sold his book ideas and then wrote the texts for them - although granted, he is a famous writer by this point and thus he has more leeway in terms of how to navigate the publication world. I don't know if the story does much for me outside of the fantasy/sci-fi framework (making me think of my own trials/tribulations and hero's journey); however, this might be of more value back in the 80's when it was written. I think the critiques still stand today, but I don't know what to really do with them nor does it really guide me to rethink about current situation in such a system. If the quest for love or actualization through job satisfaction is the goal - then I might as well just sit all day at my personalized news channel. I'm hoping that the additional books begin to provide a way out of such doldrums.

Chris wrote: ""I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul"

I had different expectations in returning to Piers Anthony's On a Pale Horse. For some reason, I thought the book had much more sex and vi..."

Wow, you burned through that! I'm only 20% in, but hoping to get some done this weekend. I can't speak to the broader themes you mentioned, yet, but will keep them in mind as I read.

I will agree with you on his female characters. I've had a few women read my stuff, and my editor for TOST was a woman, and they all mention that I have really strong female characters. I always took this as a compliment because it's what Joss Whedon and George R.R. Martin are always told, and they're my heroes. But I still always thought it was kind of like "what's the big deal. I'm just writing my women the same way I write men?"

Re-reading this series has given me a sort of "ah hah!" moment, or more like an "oh, I see what they mean, now!" I think in the first paragraph of the description of every woman Zane encounters, there is a summation of how attractive or not attractive she is. And it's a "telling" rather than "showing," which is lazy in my opinion. Attractiveness is so subjective. It's much better to just give a physical description and let the reader decide for themselves if that person is attractive.

I also feel that drawing a lot of attention to how a character looks can distract the reader from who the character is. The only female character I've met at the point I am at in the reading is fate, and she just seems kind of bitchy. I pictured her as Maggie Smith, and then she briefly transformed into an Emilia Clark.

I'm really surprised these books never got made into movies. I have to admit I am enjoying this first one despite the lazy writing and sexism.

Time is the next book, btw. Nature is #3.

Er.. Fate is 3. Death, Time, Fate, War, Nature, Evil, and Good... then whatever Nox is about.