SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I keep suggesting folks start a thread if they want to discuss this from an authorial perspective, and they don't, so here we go. What informs your decision to write sexy or gory scenes? What considerations do you make in how you portray them? Does it change your target market?

Readers following along, what "rubric" do you use for judging these scenes?

Please be considerate of each other and differences in opinion.

As an author, I've never yet wanted to write a sexy or gory scene. I think these things work better if they're merely hinted at, much as the ghost stories of M.R. James are better than most because they merely hint at horrors rather than trying to describe them. As so often in fiction, the reader's imagination is generally better at filling in the blanks than the author's pen.

As a reader, I tolerate rather than applaud sexy or gory scenes. They're not why I read SF and fantasy (or indeed any kind of fiction), and for me, they are really just unnecessary distractions.

As a reader, I don't mind sex or violence in a story, as long as they are not gratuitous and are meant to add to the story and are not there simply as cheap thrills. You will understandably find a lot of them in erotica and in war novels, so the readers complaining about sex and/or violence in such novel categories should simply read something else.

As a writer, I will describe/add scenes of sex or violence as needed to advance the novel in its proper context. Trying to ban/avoid swearing/cursing in military thrillers or crime novels would be both hypocritical/unrealistic and would diminish the sense of authenticity in the book. Where I put limits on is when an author keeps describing at length and in repetition scenes of torture/rape/sadism just to add to the shock effect. Some authors seem to specialize in that and I avoid their books like the plague.

Thanks for making this thread, Allison.

As for my in-development project (I think it'd be probably classified as high fantasy or sword-and-sorcerery fantasy, with coming of age elements), there are pretty much three scenes, each different and I think each can show a specific type of approach so I will mention them all.

First one only hints that the characters could have sex, but the "fade out" (in music/movie terms) leaves it open. That, I think, is good for situation where detailed sex scene would add nothing to the story.

Second is one naked scene. Two of the characters (close friends) meet unexpectedly when they go swimming in a lake, and considering they are elves, swimsuit would just feel strange, at least for me. I believe that this can be a small detail - a culture/race that finds it natural to swim without clothing.

Third is actual sex scene, to a degree as it has fade out after foreplay, so to say. I am not really willing to tell much about the story yet, but the scene itself has some reasons for them as considering events of the past day(s) brought the characters closer and the night seals the deal, so to say. Now, being insecure in my skills as amateur to-be writer and having no firsthand experience with the matter myself, I was not really willing to go into details, which I think is for the good anyway. I actually have the scene in more detail, but it's in the "deleted scenes" file and it won't be in the final version anyway.
---
As for choice of words, there are not many swearwords (the world is far too filled with them anyway) and I think the worst I used are "damn" when things go bad and "what the hell?"
---
Lastly, violence is inevitable when there's a lot of fighting, especially against demons, but the blood and gore is done in necessary minimum.
---
And finally, I unofficially consider my work aimed at people in roughly my age group (20s-30s) with 15+ recommendation.

Certain genres lend themselves to sex and/or violence. Fantasy, action/adventure, etc. will be rather boring without violence. Though to what degree would typically be dictated by your target audience.
Sex can be tricky. When writing adult material, I typically ask myself is it important to the story? In one of my books, for example, the protagonist infiltrates a palace disguised as a male prostitute hired by the queen. I felt it would be strange not to include it.

It seems to me like these days we're getting more fantasy/SF books with explicit sex scenes, especially more m/m. Eg, The Magpie Lord or Captive Prince.
I think this is at least partly the result of more writers learning their craft through fanfiction, where there simply aren't the same sorts of boundaries between 'erotica' and other genres (and m/m is wildly popular)

Fan fiction has a lot of really weird stuff. I had first ideas for the story I am working on in my mid teens and in that age, I admit that the early concept was significantly wilder in some parts. Good thing that it was several years later when I actually started (which itself came almost out of nowhere).

Michel wrote: "You will understandably find a lot of them in erotica and in war novels, so the readers complaining about sex and/or violence in such novel categories should simply read something else.

I can't speak for war novels but this is NOT the case for Romance. Erotica is a sub-genre of Romance where explicit sex is the standard to hit the sub-genre. I'm pretty sure that most readers of Erotica aren't complaining of sex in Erotica.

I'm pretty sure that readers of Romance novels which can be clean with no sex whatsoever would complain of that, not Erotica readers.

As someone who reads all sub-genres of Romance, I complain about too much sex in one but not the other.

Ruth wrote: "It seems to me like these days we're getting more fantasy/SF books with explicit sex scenes, especially more m/m. Eg, The Magpie Lord or Captive Prince.
I think this ..."

Captive Price is hardcore non-con M/M Romance. It's genre Romance, Sub-Genre Fantasy, Sub-Genre Non-Con, Sub-Genre Captive/Slavery. There's torture and rape in there. I've heard a dose of pedophilia as well.

This isn't standard Fantasy.

I’ve been working on a novel about assassins in a fantasy world for probably going on a year now. I intend it to be violent. I’m undecided about the sex. Sort of wavering back and forth as to whether or not it would be considered gratuitous. I don’t know that it advances the story but I think I’ve written them to show something about the character of the characters (is that considered an advancement of story?)

And I’m sorry I can’t remember who posted it- but for the amateur-want-to-be-writer, if you want to write good sex scenes I would recommend reading sex scenes (good and bad) so you can get a feel for what works and what doesn’t.

I think really what it comes down to is audience. Is your intended audience the sort that would be put off by such things? Then don’t include it.

This week we got a clear example of America’s dysfunctional sickness when it comes to our collective relationship with sex and violence: Walmart announced they will no longer sell Cosmopolitan magazine because of the adult content, yet they still sell military-grade weapons of mass murder.

Trike wrote: "This week we got a clear example of America’s dysfunctional sickness when it comes to our collective relationship with sex and violence: Walmart announced they will no longer sell Cosmopolitan magazine because of the adult content, yet they still sell military-grade weapons of mass murder."

Violent videogames, totally okay. Bare-chested protesters? Blur them out!

Sarah wrote: "And I’m sorry I can’t remember who posted it- but for the amateur-want-to-be-writer, if you want to write good sex scenes I would recommend reading sex scenes (good and bad) so you can get a feel for what works and what doesn’t.

I think really what it comes down to is audience. Is your intended audience the sort that would be put off by such things? Then don’t include it."

Makes sense, though I think that it does not need to go all in to get the point across and actually leaving some space for imagination of the reader is good. Fade out after foreplay seems good enough for my purpose. Also, thanks for your input, maybe it'll help me :)

The upcoming Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA) is having repercussions all over the place. Amazon just rank-stripped a lot of erotica book titles, Reddit shut down some sex forums, Craigslist shut down their personals ads, and Radish banned erotica entirely from its App, citing concerns about compliance with iTunes.

There's a long thread about this over at Kboards Writer's Cafe, and those writers of romance and erotica are upset.

Allison wrote: "What informs your decision to write sexy or gory scenes? ..."

Sexy or just sexually explicit? ];P

(I think there's a difference.)

I don't do fantasy as a rule (never say never). But any action driven SF is bound to have violence. How gory I get about it depends a lot on the book. What I've published so far has a fair amount of violence/death in it but very little gore. Most of my protagonists are not the perpetrators of the violence either.

What determines that is really the plot and the tone of the book. I don't tend to like writing the action hero MC who takes on the world and beats it to a pulp. For the right kind of story, I can see that, but I much prefer the hero who is actively trying to avoid getting killed, rather than doing the killing. Many of my characters are victims of circumstance rather than the movers and shakers.

For anything like rape or torture to be included I have to be very clear in my mind why I need to include it. I've added one torture scene to one book only (I'll probably never publish the book), and one rape/attempted murder scene to a published short story. In both cases they were pivotal scenes in the plot. And writing the rape scene was probably the hardest thing I've ever written. It's difficult to mitigate the stark ugliness of sexual violence while trying to convey its impact on the character. To have left out the details, I felt, would have trivialized the experience and that would have been a disservice to the character, the story, and the reader. But I also had to worry that too much would have turned it into something even uglier. I've only had one review of that particular short story and thankfully the lady who wrote it found this story my most powerful work of the ones she reviewed (gritty and hard to take in parts but impactful, I think she said). I don't know. I really worry about that one still, but at the same time I'm a bit proud of it.

Sex, sex, sex ... where were we?

SF is not an ideal genre for explicit sex (IMHO). In fact, outside of Erotica and perhaps coming of age stories where the author's trying to deal with the awkwardness of learning intimacy, there's very little place for explicit sex in any genre. When I've encountered it as a reader, it almost always feels gratuitous, self-conscious, and uncomfortable (needless to say contrived and unreal). Sex in video games: same thing.

I have one manuscript in (perpetual) editing where the MC witnesses some gratuitous sex. I've cut that scene down a lot and I've had some negative feedback on it, but it does play into the whole plot setup so most of it will stay in. The same book, however, has one romantic interlude where there's a very blunt fade to black when things are starting to get real because ... it's romantic love, not the carnal excess witnessed earlier in the book.

I guess I could see more explicit sex being described in a certain kind of book--like the transgressive literature of the 50s and 60s for example where the whole point is to flaunt the breaking of taboos and social norms. But isn't that kind of over already, or at least passé? I'm sure explicit stuff would fit some places I can't think of right now but for the most part I think it's been used for sensationalism and titillation which for me doesn't work.

@Tomas Of course! I’m sorry if I sounded like I was saying you should definitely include them- that’s not what I meant. There’s nothing wrong with fade-to-black at all. I picked up a historical romance novel this year, which I haven’t done in quite sometime, and there was zero sex (not even foreplay, just kissing) and the book was perfect as it was and I wouldn’t have changed it. I was only speaking in reference to you saying you weren’t sure of yourself when writing them.

@Trike That’s such an excellent point. I was thinking to myself as I was writing my own response that in 2018 why are sex scenes even considered an issue? I understand some people just prefer not to read that, just as I prefer not to read text books or children’s books or what have you, but for sex in literature outside of romance or erotica to be seen as taboo or something is ridiculous.

If an author (especially in a fantasy book) goes to great lengths to describe a meal a character is having (color of the sauce, how spicy it is etc.), or what the side of a mountain looks like, why wouldn't the describe any sex scene in detail.

Micah wrote: "Sex, sex, sex ... where were we?

SF is not an ideal genre for explicit sex (IMHO). In fact, outside of Erotica and perhaps coming of age stories where the author's trying to deal with the awkwardn..."

Wait, sex? isn't that what the internet is for?

Bo wrote: "If an author (especially in a fantasy book) goes to great lengths to describe a meal a character is having (color of the sauce, how spicy it is etc.), or what the side of a mountain looks like, why..."
Most don't. At least those who tell stories that don't put you to sleep. A writer describes a meal in detail - or I should say a good writer describes it in detail if it is relevant. The same goes for mountains, trees, animals or anything else. Sure you want to set the scene and tone, but most tell you what you need to know in order to advance the plot. If the sex advances the plot, then it should be detailed. Otherwise, it's shock value.

Tom wrote: "Amazon just rank-stripped a lot of erotica book titles."

As far as I know, several authors, especially in self-published romance (of dubious quality), were using illegal techniques for getting more money from the Kindle Unlimited fund. I won't go into details as I don't fully understand it, but I believe the issue was called "book stuffing" or something like that. In essence, they put four (example number) books into one (and four different books have them all under different name and different cover), put "skip to end" link at the end of first and it counts all four as read, thus getting them easy read counts - which is what matters for KU, so I'd like to believe Amazon got their banhammer on those cheaters. And yeah, some even used bots for fast reading to get more money.

Sarah wrote: "Of course! I’m sorry if I sounded like I was saying you should definitely include them- that’s not what I meant. There’s nothing wrong with fade-to-black at all. I picked up a historical romance novel this year, which I haven’t done in quite sometime, and there was zero sex (not even foreplay, just kissing) and the book was perfect as it was and I wouldn’t have changed it. I was only speaking in reference to you saying you weren’t sure of yourself when writing them."

No worries, I did not take it that way, just gave my reason for why I decided to instead go for the fade variant. As Micah said, I think that's better for situation when it's fully consensual situation between two lovers and it's the presence of intimacy that matters more than how exactly that did it, maybe to the point that the buildup might say more about the characters than the act itself.

Tomas wrote: "Tom wrote: "Amazon just rank-stripped a lot of erotica book titles."

As far as I know, several authors, especially in self-published romance (of dubious quality), were using illegal techniques for..."

This is something more encompassing, and is being administered with a broad brush. One of the problems is that the romance writers are in such a competitive genre that they categorize their books all over the place just so they can get some rank exposure in less competitive genres. So this recent action may be in response to complaints about that.

But to get back on topic, my point was that if you include mature content you may run the risk of being swept up in these occasional efforts to corral mature content, regardless of the motivation. Worse, you may get re-categorized and 'shelved' with books that you would rather not sit next to.

Bo wrote: "If an author (especially in a fantasy book) goes to great lengths to describe a meal a character is having (color of the sauce, how spicy it is etc.), or what the side of a mountain looks like, why..."

I'm in agreement with Brian (message 19). Unless there's a compelling reason to include that kind of detail, authors probably shouldn't include it. Otherwise we're left with exposition about everything from daily bodily functions to exactly how a character combs their hair and applies deodorant (if any).

My writing involves a significant amount of violence. My goal is and always has been to convey a feeling of shock and awe, but never disgust.

I think there are times when the extra description is needed to evoke the proper response to the situation.

I've seen so me authors execute this well while others drift towards a gratuitous amount. This makes it seem as though they enjoy the grotesque a little too much.

Below is a sneak peak at the third book in my four part series titled "William of Archonia: Desolation" which is in beta reading stage.

Let me know what you think. Does it need more description? Less? I'd love to hear your constructive feedback.

Excerpt:
The constant struggle in Dichonia had made Luxor much harder and stronger than Meredox was. The flurry slowed as Meredox attempted an impossible finishing blow against his brother. A blade shot forth from Luxor’s gauntlet and Meredox was impaled upon it. This was not a mistake however. William knew that Meredox had given him a window of opportunity. In a millisecond William’s Archonian eyes saw the blood burst forth from his friend’s back and the blade protrude. He also saw the eyes of his twin brother go wide in horror. They were brothers and it had to have been even the slightest bit difficult to hurt him in such a way.
​This was all the time that William needed. He swung his sword and severed the arm that was holding up Meredox’s impaled body and then he sliced sideways forcing a gap between Luxor’s armor completely separating his upper and lower body.
​Then he spun his sword blade down in his hands and heaved as he pinned Luxor’s upper body to the ground. He was still alive and sputtering curses as he gripped William’s blade with his remaining arm. Only William could lift Gungnir however and the crippled soul was all but helpless and he bled upon the dirt beneath him. William ran to Meredox and pulled the blade from his body and held him. The battle was dying down and many of the Guardians that had been fighting were now joining them in the clearing. They had won. The rest was just mopping up now.

Jarod wrote: "My writing involves a significant amount of violence. My goal is and always has been to convey a feeling of shock and awe, but never disgust.

I think there are times when the extra description is..."

Don't take this the wrong way, and you did ask, but you need work with action scenes. Your first sentence, for example - The constant struggle in Dichonia had made Luxor much harder and stronger than Meredox was
Do we already know he's from Dichonia? If so, then delete that. "Constant struggle" is a bit simplistic. Maybe something like, "A life of hardship spent under the most brutal conditions imaginable? Also "harder and "stronger a bit on the simple side. "Gave him superior strength and endurance, of which he was eager to take full advantage. A grin crept up as he noticed his opponent's rapid flurry of attacks gradually slow and his feet shift wide. The fool was actually going to try and finish him with a single blow.
'Let him try,' thought Luxor, his muscles coiled to strike. 'I'm ready.' Or something like that.
There are many way to frame it. Action scenes are hard.

Jarod wrote: "Let me know what you think. Does it need more description? Less? I'd love to hear your constructive feedback. "

It’s confusing, to be honest. I had to reread it a couple times to figure out what was happening. I think that Luxor and Meredox are twin brothers, but on first reading it I thought William was the twin. That’s due to POV confusion. You need to sort out the relationships.

Luxor is either a zombie or extraordinarily hard to kill if he can be cut completely in half yet still be an active threat.

If William cuts off his arm (is it a downswing or upswing?), how is he able to slice sideways and cut Luxor in half? Apparently they have super strength? Or it’s a magic sword?

Also, how is Luxor “gripping” the sword with his arm? Is it under his armpit or do you mean his hand? It’s unclear. You only grip with your hand, and arm is not interchangeable with hand.

The other problem is that the words you’re using for flavor don’t fit. “Millisecond” is a recent invention that only came about due to nuclear physics. It doesn’t fit well in a Fantasy sword fight.

“Crippled soul” is poetic, I would guess, but in a Fantasy world with magic swords it’s not inconceivable a sword could stab someone in the spirit. I mean, Elric of Melniboné has a sword (Stormbringer) which *drinks* souls. Is it a magic sword or just really heavy? I’m assuming it’s like Thor’s hammer Mjolnir, but it could just be that William is really strong.

To sum up, this not how to write action. It’s confusing even if I had all of that background information.

Violence is a matter of taste for your reader. If your readership is buying in to the violence then carry-on. Personally your scene was over the top for me. I love a good sword fight like Liam Neeson’s fight in Rob Roy. There we got to see the blade sink deep into shoulder and chest in the killing blow. But the scene was about pride and revenge. As a viewer I wanted blood by that point. The entire movie culminated in that fight. For me as a writer, a very descriptive gory scene should occur once at most and only in support of a major element in the story. I have a nuclear aftermath scene in my book. The scene isn’t about the horror of nuclear aftermath, rather about the healer who is moved to call upon something he didnt j

I write middle grade and YA, some of which has had fantastical and speculative elements and some of which has had boy-girl "relationships". I put the word in quotes because the relationships tend to be pretty chaste. It's an unwritten rule in middle grade that physicality is restricted to hand-holding and non-sexual touching and a kiss or two. In YA, it's tempting to assume that these days almost anything goes (and in some cases, it does).

But I've always kept in mind an anecdote I once read about John Grisham. An interviewer asked him, in his wife's presence, why his books (at that time, at least) had no sex scenes. His wife couldn't resist getting to the answer first (and I'm paraphrasing here). "Because authors are supposed to only write about what they know," she said.

I'm sure she was just having fun at his expense, and I'm pretty sure John Grisham knows something about sex, but I get what she's implying. You not only have to know something about it, you have to be comfortable writing the scene, and you have to be good at it. I've read some cringe-worthy sex scenes in otherwise strong books, but I don't know that I could do any better.

So in YA I've mostly stayed away from the physical stuff or left it offstage and up to the reader's imagination. In my upcoming SF/alternate history YA, Fast Backward, there is a definite attraction between the two principal characters, but their physical relationship is limited. The "mature" content of the novel is limited to several F-bombs and some off-stage mayhem (it takes place during a revised version of World War II). I didn't feel that sex scenes were appropriate for the story, which was good for me and its readers. I didn't have to feel uncomfortable, and neither will they.

You are probably right that for YA, going for details would be too much. Hard to guess now (I'm 28) but even though I knew the biological stuff behind procreating, I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable reading full-scale sex scenes in my teens.

Possibly slightly off-topic, but I was to follow "authors are supposed to only write about what they know" I should not write intimate scenes. Yet, my alpha reader told me it made sense, so my imagination seems to be decent in that regard. As I mentioned in my earlier post here, it's also about how far you take it, fade-out at foreplay is most likely much safer (and less straining) to write than all-out sex scene, more so if it's focused on the feelings rather than the physical act.

David wrote: "I write middle grade and YA, some of which has had fantastical and speculative elements and some of which has had boy-girl "relationships". I put the word in quotes because the relationships tend t..."

Great story.

Michel wrote: "As a reader, I don't mind sex or violence in a story, as long as they are not gratuitous and are meant to add to the story and are not there simply as cheap thrills. You will understandably find a ..."

I agree completely, there is a place for everything (almost everything at least), but using those story elements indiscriminately or poorly can rob the story of some really great moments.

You just get numb to them, and then they have to ramp up everything to the next level of extremes (Although that might be the point, especially in war stories).

To each their own, but I personally like feeling the power of those moments when used selectively.

Tomas wrote: "You are probably right that for YA, going for details would be too much. Hard to guess now (I'm 28) but even though I knew the biological stuff behind procreating, I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable reading full-scale sex scenes in my teens."

See to me I would have loved more sex scenes in my fantasy at that time. I was a curious child and an even more curious teenager. To me there was a difference between reading about sex and having sex, as in I was angsting about my first kiss but reading Harlequin books at the same time. I knew the latter was total thrash and probably not realistic but I didn't have the knowledge to back it up then.

I reached for fantasy/Science fiction because that felt more realistic. The characters reacted in ways I could see people do in real life. But I missed the sex part of that. I didn't (and still don't) mind the fade to black scene, but sometimes I'm disappointed because... How people act in intimate moments with each other says something about a character. That's true in real life, why not transfer that in stories?

Now I have to say I'm from the Netherlands and from a very open-minded family. As in I can remember as a child my older sister asking my mother for a condom. Which didn't strike me as odd because she had her first boyfriend. Also she got mercilessly teased because she wanted to be prepared.

I sometimes get the feeling Americans are more... I don't know the words for it. But for example I watched Altered Carbon a while ago. While I liked the series I just knew (view spoiler)[ we would have a gratuitous sex scene between certain characters. Because that's what happens in American series. Also the ratio naked females/naked males was way off. It felt like the makers were patting themselves on the back for being 'progressive'. (hide spoiler)] While in European series I never get that feeling.

So as a reader I like me some violence and sex scenes because it's part of human nature. While it doesn't always have to be titillating, putting some normalcy in it is always appreciated. And I think this especially goes for YA. Because really... Some sex scenes in those books are just bad. And utterly unrealistic. Would somebody please write a sex scene between people in which somebody farted or something? Or someones knee hits something that wasn't made for that? At that age, you screw up more than ever, but everything in the media says it should be perfect.

I definitely see your point. Maybe it's because how hard it would be to make it believable why I prefer fade to dark and as I said earlier (post #4) I believe even the foreplay can tell much about the characters and I would believe it's at that point where the pair is most hesitant, before they fully get into the mood.

Plus, it might be the hardest before that. How does a barely adult male ask his parents to allow a female to stay overnight, without it being obvious what his plan is? Especially if he has no idea how would they react to the truth and the risk of being caught in the act? The buildup has potential to show much more than just why the two decided to go all the way.

As for my perception, maybe it's that I thought that written description of the act that is so much about physical contact felt weird to me.

Ada wrote: "Tomas wrote: "You are probably right that for YA, going for details would be too much. Hard to guess now (I'm 28) but even though I knew the biological stuff behind procreating, I think I'd be a bi..."

We're very prudish over here about sex and nudity - violence + guns are A.OK, however.

I have to say that I ran into a decent amount of sex in fantasy/sf as a kid but it was much more in the YA sections than in the adult sections. Of course, I didn't have access to the kinds of explicit books they write today. Most sex scenes were fade to black.

But Piers Anthony and Mercedes Lackey co-wrote a book together: If I Pay Thee Not in Gold. It has a not quite fade to black threesome scene that includes a man, a woman and a demon that turns from a man into a woman (or vice versa).

That was 25 years ago. Not typical. Don't rush out to read it, however. It was terrible. I wrote a review.

I saw some people use the ask about book sections for being told if a book contains sex scenes, as if they were to be avoided in a wide arc. It was even more funny when I saw that on a book that had quite detailed violent scenes that were sometimes gory as well. Seriously, avoiding a book because of a sex scene, or not letting your child read it for the same reason (yes, I've seen parents asking that to know if a book is safe for their teen).

Since you mentioned guns and violence, there is one thing that and sex have in common: unrealistic portrayal in movies. As Ada said above, sex scenes (even in books) tent to go too perfectly. When it comes to guns, it's even worse - no recoil, endless magazines, unrealistically overdone explosions (even though I admit I like those in movies) and bodies flying far after being hit.
As it was said before, it's quite a twist that something that is at some point part of everyone's life (read: sex) is a problem when violence is not and I (want to) believe that most people don't experience high-level violence firsthand.

Tomas wrote: "Since you mentioned guns and violence, there is one thing that and sex have in common: unrealistic portrayal in movies. As Ada said above, sex scenes (even in books) tent to go too perfectly. When it comes to guns, it's even worse - no recoil, endless magazines, unrealistically overdone explosions (even though I admit I like those in movies) and bodies flying far after being hit."

True. But, I can imagine it's hard to write a realistic awkward action scene or sex scene. I have read a deliberately awkward sex scene in a romance. It was written as bad and awkward sex...and it was so uncomfortable to read.

Having started to read Night's Master and then noped out of it very quickly my main contribution to this thread is... if you're going to write sex scenes, for the love of God do not use overblown purple prose.
The bad sex awards exist for a reason...

Not to sound like a smart-ass, but it just kinda happened! My first book has three sex scenes. I never planned it that way but they seemed to necessitate themselves. I love to write with a focus on plot movement and dialogue; I can fill in the details later, but if it seems to fit the plot it’s in! Haven’t written any gore yet.

I'm bringing this thread back to life after the discussion we had in the "books get it wrong" topic.
If you have some tips for writing sex scenes, something to help fellow authors, or examples of books to use as either good or bad example, please share them with others so we can learn and grow. Thanks.

I have a clear feeling that public tolerance for explicit sex scenes and violence varies a lot depending on which nationalities watch/read them. If I go from what was written in this thread, along with my personal experience around the World, I would say that Americans in general tend to be quite prudish about sex and nudity, while craving extreme violence and guns, while Europeans (French, Dutch, Scandinavians) are a lot more tolerant/understanding about the subject of sex, but much less so about gun violence. For an author, this means that you have to take into account the kind of public that is likely to read your stories before deciding to include mature content. However, authors should not bow down to what I would call hypocritical prudishness and should depict the World as is.

I don't write sex at all. And I don't throw blood all over the place. But it's still scary - I've told that recently. :)

Michel wrote: "For an author, this means that you have to take into account the kind of public that is likely to read your stories before deciding to include mature content..."

I'd put that a slightly different way: Take into consideration the type of story you're writing and make the content fit that. I never really pay attention to what kind of public is likely to read my books because I have no control over that.

If you're writing a gritty dystopian story then there would very likely be adult content in terms of both sex and violence. Even so, the sex and violence should come with consequences for the characters and be supportive of the plot. OTOH if you're trying for an erotica aspect, then go ahead and add all the sweaty details.

A Fifty Shades of Gray style scene in Lord of the Rings would have been very disturbing … but, then again, hobbits showing up in Fifty Shades of Gray might have been worse.

M.L. wrote: "I don't write sex at all. And I don't throw blood all over the place. But it's still scary* - I've told that recently. :)"

*(with a positive ending.)

One book where sex had meaning at least in showing both love and geekiness of the pair was read by the group some time ago - The Calculating Stars. The views of readers differed from 'great' to '\rolling eyes up and scrolling to the end' :)

I have a great deal of difficulty writing sex scenes. I avoid it as much as I can. Mostly because when I start to go down that road the thought that my mother is going to read this pops into my head and I suddenly become extremely embarrassed. I hope to one day get passed this.

Not that I'm going to go out and write a romance anytime soon, but even fantasy novels sometimes have sexy times in them.

Tomas wrote: "I'm bringing this thread back to life after the discussion we had in the "books get it wrong" topic.
If you have some tips for writing sex scenes, something to help fellow authors, or examples of b..."

Great topic. All my books have numerous sex scenes in them (although mostly on the subtle side). Not because I set out to write sex books, it just happens, because healthy adults thrown together in novel situations will feel an attraction. The reader will feel the attraction and (depending on genre) will be disappointed if you don't give them what they want.

Some years ago I wrote an analysis of my approach. Not sure about the rules for posting blog links so delete if I've overstepped the mark, but those who are interested in this sort of writing might just learn something helpful...

https://adriandeans.wordpress.com/201...

As a reader I don’t mind explicit sexual content at all, if that’s what I’m looking for. Already mentioned, but authors like KJ Charles writes m/m and f/f erotica set in a historical context often mixed with crime, mystery or the supernatural, and I enjoy those immensely as her books are also funny and clever and has tons of plot and character development. As with any other genre or subgenre, if it’s well written I’d read it.

I also grew up with fanfiction and have been reading and writing for 25 years, soooo ^_^

However these are definitely subgenres, and I don’t seek out a SFF novel, or a thriller with the wish to encounter full on sex scenes. In these they distract and detract from the story and are rather pointless to me, so I prefer “regular” fiction without it.

I read horror, so again if I seek it out I don’t mind it, but of course, again, if it appears in more geneal genres without serving any other purpose than to shock or appear edgy, then I have little interest in it.

In addition to the above, in fanfiction everything is tagged, so you know specifically if you will encounter this or that topic or action or sexual situation or this or that kind of violence, which allows you to simply avoid things you don’t want to read (obv the more mature/explicit fics tend to have the most tags, but there may still be additional things you don’t wish to read). I sometimes wish there was a similar “warning” system, so that when I open up a space opera I don’t get slapped in the face with bloody descriptions of torture, or annoyed by a long sex scene, which isn’t likely to be good either.

Seriously, everything about the genre, cover, quotes, blurb etc ought to be a clear signal as to the type of content in any book. If it's not then someone screwed up.

My books are for adults and some will find them confronting, but I (and / or my publishers) give plenty of clues as to what the reader will encounter. I even insisted on a R symbol on one cover - as though it was a film - to make sure no-one was shocked. (That was a commissioned biography about a footballer.)

Adrian wrote: "Seriously, everything about the genre, cover, quotes, blurb etc ought to be a clear signal as to the type of content in any book. If it's not then someone screwed up.

My books are for adults and s..."

Putting some kind of warning about sexual or violence content either at the opening or a cover blurb of a book sounds to me like a definitive must, in order for the author to be honest with the readers. As a rule, all the novels I write, in any genre, have a warning paragraph in bold red letters, when appropriate or needed. That way, those who may not like to read about certain things will be forewarned and will have the option of not continuing on with the book.

I don't put a warning. When the buyer opens it a confetti of phallic symbols sprays forth from the eagerness of the reader wrenching the book open.