Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club discussion

Who are some of your favourite character actors; (name some flicks they were in) and can you explain why they stand out to you? What is it that makes them great?

Hi, thanks for responding.
I would say Donald Meek is probably my favorite. He was a little guy, smarmy, irascible, and sometimes redeemable. He was great in so many roles, as the whiskey salesman in Stagecoach, and the prosecutor in the Young Mr. Lincoln. (That’s 2 great movies in the same year, 1939.) In the young Mr. Lincoln, it’s Abe vs. the prosecutor, Donald Meek. Meek is seemingly about to win until Abe springs his trap on another great character actor, Jack Cass, aka Ward Bond. Bond’s arrogant smoke rings are priceless. Also liked Donald Meek in one of the best Twilight Zones ever, The Night of the Meek, where he plays the dept. store manager and with Art Carney as Santa. The episode has everything - great actors, dialogue, setting, pure nostalgia. Oh, and it has another great character actor, Burt Mustin, who is the epitome of a character actor. We might not know his name but we know his face.

Aye. Meek and another Donald, Donald Crisp (whom I often confuse with Meek) are the epitome of the character actor.

For a plethora of characters actors tracked from film-to-film as they rose to prominence, you may wish to enjoy the books of Don Miller, who was an authority on the rise of the "B"- movie.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...

One actor whom seemed so authentic and unassuming, I never suspected was a character actor at all. Yet he appears in two Oscar winning flicks. 'The Grapes of Wrath' and 'Casablanca'. Two utterly disparate story settings.

Donald Crisp was to acting what Leo Durocher was to baseball. For years, whenever something big happened in baseball, from Ruth's 60 homers to the Miracle Mets, Durocher was there, albeit as a bit player. Crisp's amazing career stretched from before The Birth of a Nation to the 1960s, that's astounding.

look at this

cast and cameo guide for Stanley Kramer's "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World"

https://youtu.be/51iVLRJY900

Oh man.

My goodness, so many great stars! My recollection of the movie was that Lucy was in it, but I guess not, and kind of a sad role for the legendary Spencer Tracy. Unless my memory is failing me again, he turned out to be crooked at the end of the movie.

His character was driven over the edge, is what happened. But he was essentially a good guy; long career on the force--just pushed too far.

Anyway, the flick still holds a unique position in film history, still unmatched after all this time. An 'epic' comedy, a 'Gone with the Wind' of comedy which gathered together as many comedians in one project as was feasible.

And the stunts! Simply unheard of. You couldn't make a picture like this today; it needed a "well...no one's ever done it before but let's take a whack at it anyway" attitude. So they fly a Beechcraft twin-engine through a highway billboard and the stunt-pilot almost dies..but the picture got made anyway...

back on topic

I'm not even sure I could compile a list of all my favourite supporting actors. It's too enormous a task.

However, my mind tends to dwell on the ones who have appeared in more than 3-4 of my fave flicks.

Millard Mitchell, for example.

He's in:
Twelve O'clock High
The Gunfighter
The Naked Spur
A Foreign Affair
Winchester '73

A face carved from granite, and a gravel voice to match. Salty, cynical 'ole bird.

Actor Fritz Weaver, a fave of mine. Always so consistent and solid in whatever he did.

His tremendous, gripping mental breakdown in Sidney Lumet's 'Fail Safe' is still so shocking.

Then: 'Marathon Man'...'Black Sunday'...role after role

I don't know every film in his career but anytime I see him, I know the flick is gonna be good. I'll even re-watch a movie just for his performance.

Feliks wrote: "look at this

cast and cameo guide for Stanley Kramer's "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World"

https://youtu.be/51iVLRJY900

Oh man."

One of my favorite movies, slapstick throughout, mom and dad drove us kids to Kansas City, to see it at the Imperial Theatre on their huge screen. Jimmy Durante literally kicks the bucket, Dick Shawn classic, I watched it two summers ago, and found myself laughing so hard my sides hurt and I had to hit the pause button a few times. I always liked The Great Race with Jack Lemon as Professor Fate another classic.

Yep. It dwarfs any comedy made, ever since.

Look briefly at this:
https://youtu.be/WlC1Fboq5vI

(my favorite part). And if you just think about what this involved, just the thought of it alone is hilarious.

Of course today the flick would be catcalled and criticized for its 'depiction of women' or its 'depiction of minorities' or a dozen other nonsensical charges. Its "shows mothers-in-law' in poor light".

But the stuntwork is nearly a ballet. And I purely adore the final scene where they're all bandaged up ..but start laughing their asses off; shouting with laughter..the cops and nurses looking on, scratching their heads..what a beautiful, simple, good-hearted wingding.

"We're gonna get that key...if we have to drag it out of you"

:D

That line reminds me of Speilberg's film, 1941, Slim Picken's has been captured by Japanese sailors and is being held on a submarine whose compass has broken, Picken's if I remember right has a box of Cracker Jacks and on opening the prize low and behold it's a compass, he swallows the compass, and tell the Japanese commander "You ain't getting crap out of me", or something along those lines.

Ah yah. Spielberg's first big flop. Inexplicable. Just goes to show.

Anyway.

Tonight as on many nights I am lucky enough to hang in a bar which only shows TCM. I slouched against the wood for six hours. Closed-captioned, but still. I enjoyed 'The Magnificent Seven' and...'Advise and Consent'. Superb evening. The acting and direction is so strong in these products that I was welling up with emotion almost as if the sound was on.

'Advise & Consent' was particularly fruitful. I had recently purchased the original script for study. Faithful, impeccable cleaving to the story. So great to see Walter Pidgeon given a huge role so late in his career. Pidgeon and Laughton together playing Americans. Would that it were so!


Merman, Berle, etc: gem quotes from 'Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World' are ripe in almost every scene. When they demand that car-key from Ethel Merman, she refuses and --can you believe it? Milton Berle and Terry-Thomas hoist Ethel Merman up by her legs, tilt her upside down, and shake her until it falls out of her brassiere. It's just astounding. Afterwards, Berle's character is deeply ashamed but his line is, 'You forced us to do it!' while she bashes him on the head with her purse.

Its humor on a near-cosmic level, Ethel Merman being shaken upside down until her boobs give up a car key?! Are you kidding me?

p.s. This new TCM guy 'Ben' is a lousy host, He is not looking good and not sounding good. And what is up with his freakish hair? So has Robert Osborne passed on to the great hereafter?

When Joey Bishop and others where trapped in the hardware store basement and trying to get out was something straight from Looney Tunes.

That sounds like a damn good bar, Magnificent Seven great movie, love the scene's with McQueen and Brynner.

Do you mean Sid Caesar who was trapped with Edie Adams in the basement? I hope that hardware store had good insurance!

Phil Silvers supposedly almost drowned in his scene while crossing that creek. It was quite a movie.

I'm a big fan of Eiisha Cook. If you need a wanna be tough guy, he's your man.

I guess George Sanders goes beyond the level of "character actor," but he did tend to mostly be the smooth talking swine.

Edward Everett Horton and Eric Blore make a great comedy team in the Astaire/Rogers films.

Here is a character actor who seemed to be in every film made in the 30-40s. And he was always good no matter what part he played.

George E. Stone

One of my favorite character actresses is Jeanette Nolan, who is probably better known for her television work, but did many films including 'Psycho'. I've often thought that a good character actor could probably make a comfortable living, if not the mega-bucks of many 'stars'.

John Dehner is a charcter actor I like. He did mostly television, but also quite a few westerns. He usually portrayed the gruff, stern character who wasn't always honest. Character actors added so much to films. 'Stars' got the money, but character actors added so much to the success of films.

Dehner was one of those character actors that showed up time and time again and I identify him mostly with Westerns. He had a long career playing the usually crooked sheriff, judge, et al.



@Feliks......I hope you don't mind me posting pictures of some of the character actors whose names don't always ring a bell but their photo does.

You're all welcome to post pictures; as long as they don't interfere with the scrolling of the thread; slow-down-the-page; have overly-large dimensions, etc. Just no videos, please.

John Dehner now, that's an actor I encounter frequently. Almost every day, because I like to listen to old-time radio while I concentrate on my work. Westerns in particular. Dehner had a lon-n-n-n-n-g career in radio and appears in probably 80% of episodes of 'Gunsmoke'. An incredibly subtle and wide-ranging vocal talent.

Jill wrote: "Dehner was one of those character actors that showed up time and time again and I identify him mostly with Westerns. He had a long career playing the usually crooked sheriff, judge, et al.



@Feli..."

Thanks for the picture, Jill. I'm computer-challenged.

John Dehner was the narrator for one of my favorite comedy/westerns, 'The Hallelujah Trail' which reminds me of Donald Pleasence, who was a superb actor. He had a colorful role as 'Oracle Jones' in Hallelujah Trail, and a very different type of part in 'The Great Escape.' He was another one who had a memorable voice.

Since there isn't a thread devoted to child actors, I thought I'd include this here since child actors are usually in supporting roles. The one child star role I can't stand is Margaret O'Brien as Tootie in 'Meet Me in St. Louis.' I grit my teeth every time I see her. Actually, I'm not crazy about the movie either, except for Grandpa. (Dr. Meade in GWTW) Although it does have one of my favorite Christmas songs in it.

I know that people are probably going to throw things at their computer screen when I say that I can not stand Shirley Temple. I feel like falling into a diabetic coma every time she opens her mouth and pouts those lips. Spare me the cuteness.

I can understand that reaction, but I think her roles were a product of what the public wanted to see--a precocious little girl who was quite talented for someone her age. Perhaps that's why she never made it big as an adult because she was no longer that 'special.'

She certainly had talent for such a small child but her cloying manner got old after a couple of films...or at least for me.

Tough to beat adult competition like Anne Blythe, Anne Todd, or Anne Shirley.

I thought she did well in 'Fort Apache' but otherwise yeah I have no especial interest in her.

Hmmm, I don't know if I like any children in any film, now that I think of it. I have to recuse myself completely

LOL, Feliks. The only child I ever really liked in film was Bobby "Wheezer" Hutchins in the early Little Rascals/Our Gang shorts. He was a sweetheart. I even named my cat after him.

'Wheezer' or Bobby? :-)

It's hard to think of likable child actors now. Their roles are all about how they outsmart adults and steal the show.

Wheezer!!!''

Here is another character actor whose face you will know. He was a star in France but had to flee the Nazis and became a strong support actor in the US. He appeared in several Bogart pictures...Casablanca, To Have And Have Not.

Marcel Dalio

That's the croupier in Rick's casino.

Later on in his career he actually played the Rick character in a subsequent version of the tale, if memory serves.

Or, he worked as an actual croupier after his career was over. Something odd/fun like that.

Interesting. I especially liked his films in France directed by Jean Renoir.......La Grande Illusion and La Régle du Jeu.

Hollywood picked him up cheap. Those are big movies.

Ah! I bet he probably played Renault in a subsequent 'Casablanca' version. That makes more sense.

"Round up the usual suspects"!! He would have made a good Renault.

Oh! I thought of one child character I enjoy: Alex Kintner!

kidding

I am a big fan of character/supporting actors. To me, they often make the movie or television show. As I said in another comment, I'm sure they could make a good living, even if their names weren't well known. The actors which I also find of interest are the ones who had physical characteristics, which might presumably have precluded them from a successful career, but they persevered by creating a niche for themselves.

Hollywood needs all kinds of actors for all kinds of roles, but perhaps today with makeup and technical skill, there isn't so much need for an actor to be type cast, for want of a better word.

Indeed. But I think the most unfortunate form of type-casting was the "accidental" kind, towards which everyone used to simply shrugs-their-shoulders-at. The pigeon-holed players towards which was thought, it's 'unable to be helped'.

This attitude underlies the worst stereotypes of Hollywood, for example the representation of black Americans for so long as buffoons, lazy or shiftless. Always in roles as servants and menials.

Today, we know that an obese actor can be a A-list star. A Mexican-American can be #1. A mature actor --getting on in years --can be a box office draw. Assumptions against this, have been challenged and overturned.

Yet --I still admire the classic era more than today, in these matters. Despite the fact that studio-era Hollywood unfairly kept some actors 'down', early Hollywood was a panoply of odd and unusual figures truly from every walk of American life. Marie Dressler, for example. An older, matronly actress with a chunky figure, to say the least. Ethel Barrymore; another such. Immigrants galore; expatriates, refugees, blue-collar workers.

Early Hollywood pulled in what it could pull in, of the diverse ethnicity found in vaudeville entertainers--America's last cultural link to Europe. The Marx Brothers, for instance --hardly photogenic. The Ritz Brothers. Jack Benny (balding with horn-rimmed glasses). Buster Keaton. There were all sorts of odd-looking stars.

Today, show biz does have a zillion technical tricks to keep stars looking perfect ...but its "overly-perfect". Phony perfection. I see the faux-diversity as rather like 'tokenism' --not true diversity. Women and minorities are still struggling for definition in today's industry. I believe I posted some links to this topic? If I didn't, I have some. It's a scandal.

Interesting comments with which I concur. But, as you pointed out, Feliks, there were a few very popular actors in "old"Hollywood that were not glamorous....think Paul Muni, Edward G. Robinson, Sydney Greenstreet (one of my favorites)......but it was mostly male characters who were given the chance to succeed over the female actress who were not "beautiful". There were great female supporting actresses such as Edna May Oliver, Helen Broderick, Una O'Conner, etc but they were seldom, if ever, given roles that could be called starring. Yet Paul Muni, who bordered on ugly, won two Oscars for his performances. It was all rather schizophrenic.

The racial/ethnic stereotyping is the shame of Hollywood and almost unwatchable.

I think Jill has a point about 'aging' women sometimes having a hard time starring in films. Even such stars as Bette Davis and Joan Crawford had to go to 'Baby Jane' type movies. Whereas character actresses could maintain their careers much longer since many were not considered glamorous anyway. (BTW, I love Una O'Connor.)

Sydney Greenstreet, Peter Lorre, and even the great Humphrey Bogart didn't have the classic looks of a star, but they had SOMETHING, which made them stand out, raising them from character actors to stars or nearly so.

Thanks. Well, the Oscars were not everything were they? Anyone who could bring anything to the table, had a shot at getting work, which was the main goal.

I privately don't think the line was so 'sharp' between good-looking men and plain-looking women. The star system favored female stars if it favored anybody, wouldn't you agree? Male actors were dull and interchangeable, more often than not. After all, what's the difference between George Brent, George Montgomery, and John Hodiak?

Also: some things are not quite the fault of anyone. 'Imitation of Life' and 'Gone with the Wind' made stars of both Juanita Moore and Hattie McDaniel. If the Oscars were always behind-the-curve, if the "money-men" were male-biased and money-biased there's a lot of reasons why such blindspots flourished; surely.

There were glamorous actresses who were much-feted; there were actresses who could really act; (these often overlapped) ...recognition was given out as Hollywood's metrics dictated as best they could. Meanwhile in the rest of the country as a whole, women were still held back and are still held back today. America happens to be a patriarchy.

We should never use our hindsight unfairly: Hollywood's main goal was earning revenue. It wasn't responsible for leading people to enlightenment (although it occasionally did so, in spite of itself)

Feliks, you make a good point about stereotypes, especially for certain ethnic groups. Who could imagine all the African-American films that are made now, being made in the 40s and 50s? And after WWII nearly all Asians were cast as the bad guys. Peter Lorre's movies as Mr. Moto suffered even before the war partially because of anti-Japanese feelings. Prejudice continues to raise its ugly head even today, but at least people speak about it more freely. Now if those who could do something about it, only would.

Feliks wrote: "Thanks. Well, the Oscars were not everything were they? Anyone who could bring anything to the table, had a shot at getting work, which was the main goal.

I privately don't think the line was so '..."

I think the Oscars are a joke but it is the kind of recognition that makes most stars and studios happy although it doesn't guarantee continuing success.....whatever happened to Luise Rainer who won two in a row?

I have to stick with my belief that in the "looks" category, women had a tougher time becoming "stars". If you were not beautiful by Hollywood standards, you were usually a supporting player. (Your example of the wonderful Marie Dressler is certainly the exception). But men seemed to be able to overcome that.....it may have been the roles they were given, such as bad guys like Edward G. Robinson or Wallace Beery (ugh) who were stars but not romantic stars. Maybe that's the answer......romantic star vs. stars in varied roles. Bad girls were still attractive/cute/beautiful while it was a different story for male stars. How many unattractive female stars were there? But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so who knows which actor the public will warm to and make into a star?

We may actually be in agreement here, just using different words to delineate what we see as the target-for-blame.

I'm just not quite convinced that the manner in which Hollywood 'handled beauty' indicates the bias you're identifying. Hollywood did certainly labor under many biases --and then some! -- but I think that beautiful women attracting the studio cameras, is perhaps part-and-parcel of filmmaking anywhere in the world.

It's true that someone as sloppy-looking as WC Fields could be a big hit; but there were quite ungainly-looking women stars too. Does it all come down to a question of 'well, how many were there, of each?' Surely not, right? If you were a talented woman you could make it. You might not make-it-to-the-top in the same way as a Dietrich might, but there was still a place for you somewhere in the system; even though everyone craved glamor.

Stereotypes take a long time to change; that's what I like to bear in mind. We live now in an era of 'near-instant' change --can we even imagine a USA where Japanese - Americans are rounded up and put in camps? In Hawaii, they were confined to districts and had curfews. Martial law. Outrageous; beyond our ken today.

All this I'm spouting is just my opinion, mind. I'm open to hearing more of yours.

Agreed. People like Ruth Gordon, Thelma Ritter, Betty Garrett, etc. had long and varied careers.

I think we probably have different definitions of "star". I see Ruth Gordon and the wonderful Thelma Ritter as supporting actors, while Betty Garrett was more famous on the stage. But without some of the great supporting casts, some films would fall flat on their faces!

How would you describe the difference then, (if you care to ruminate) between a 'star' and a 'starlet'? Hollywood was always up to its ankles in starlets. There were sure many doors-of-opportunity open to young women with absolutely no established talent. Something ambitious young men did not enjoy in the same measure.

I'm just asking, to show that it's difficult size up exactly who was fair and who was uneven, from our retrospective standpoint today. The whole playing field of classic Hollywood, was a hilly jumble of rocky terrain. Routes to success were full of dead-ends and switchbacks, as well as seeming shortcuts and fast-tracks.

Perhaps, 'All about Eve' best sums up everything we're chatting about here. Essentially a story of how a cutthroat young hopeful with no pedigree whatsoever is able to unseat an established star. Why? Because the good looks of the older star are fading slightly. Its a scathing indictment of the industry's shallowness. Maybe the shallowness of the medium as a whole.

Thankfully in real life, most supporting players other than Steve McQueen displayed good worth ethics towards their more advanced co-stars. Ha