Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club discussion

I certainly agree that more attention was paid to upcoming female actors but think that the term "starlet" is a phony publicity push to get some traction for a new face....basically a meaningless term. We could probably fill several pages with forgotten names of the newest "starlet". From the early 1920s through the early 1930s there was an organization that predicted the stars of the future with a yearly list of 13 young women called the WAMPAS Baby Stars.......does anyone remember Marion Aye, Louise Lorraine, Pauline Sharp or Helen Lynch? Granted a few names popped up on that list of women who did have a successful screen career such as Mary Astor and Clara Bow but for the most part they disappeared fairly quickly. And there certainly wasn't such a list for male actors, maybe thankfully so since it appears to have been the kiss of death to many who appeared on it. And in some cases, literally.....look at the tragic stories of Peg Entwhistle and Gwilli André.

It is difficult to say how someone became a star, isn't it. The studios could beat the public over the head with the name of a particular "starlet" but if there was something about her that didn't click with the audiences, the publicity was wasted. Can we put ourselves in the minds of the early movie fans to determine what that magic "something" was which attracted those audiences?

'All About Eve' is probably the classic example of what you're talking about, but unfortunately age and maturity are not given the respect in many fields today. I know in many schools, older teachers are encouraged to retire so they can hire young teachers, who can be paid less.

Of course, the entertainment field depends on looks so much that it becomes 'obvious' when popularity begins to wane or roles change. It's just a reflection of fact that age is not given respect whether it's on the screen, in a sport where you have to make your money while your skills are still in demand or life in general.

Spencer wrote: "Agreed. People like Ruth Gordon, Thelma Ritter, Betty Garrett, etc. had long and varied careers."

Well, Gordon had big roles in Inside Daisy Clover, Rosemary's Baby, and Harold and Maude. But if you want to talk about major stars, Shirley MacLaine was in Being There, Steel Magnolias, Coco Chanel, and Bernie. Ann-Margret was in all the Grumpy Old Men films and The Loss of a Teardrop Diamond.

...mention of early Marx Bros (in the comedies thread) just reminded me: Margaret Dumont. Or how about Jane Darwell, the 'ma' from The Grapes of Wrath'? Or, Shirley Booth. Margaret Hamilton, Mildred Natwick, Margaret Rutherford. I don't see any diversity like this in contemporary media. I rather think that we're even more beauty-centric than we ever were before.

Sometimes great studio actresses were found among 'starlets' and sometimes just more glamorpusses ...it was a proving ground for both. There were many instances of talent 'morphing'. Marilyn Monroe is a good example, right?

I stick by my remarks so far: there were many roads to both success or failure in Hollywood. It was all so wobbly and so askew in so many ways; and perhaps because it was so dog-eat-dog I think the result was a 'survival of the fittest'.

After all this interesting discussion I think we probably all agree to the basics of star making or failure. Sometimes you wonder why someone is a star or shake your head over one who didn't make it. Dog-eat-dog pretty much describes it, Feliks.

S.Z. (Cuddles) Sakall has to be one of my favorite supporting actors. He's probably best known for Casablanca, but he was in many romantic, musical comedies such as 'In the Good Old Summertime'. I think his nickname was a perfect fit.

Was he Gary Cooper's father in 'Pride of the Yankees'? Thick, Yiddish accent?

I'll name another fave of mine from 'Casablanca'. while I'm asking. It's a guy so beaten-down, non-handsome, and threadbare I first saw in another movie ('The Grapes of Wrath') that I could hardly believe my eyes when I found him again in 'Casablanca'. I thought for sure he must be an actual individual John Ford commandeered for his film. How could there be any actor who really looks like this, I wondered.

But in 'Casablanca'. there he is, playing the underground contact met by Lazlo and Ilsa in the cafe. Whenever someone draws near, he pretends he's selling them jewelry.

No, that's Ludwig Stossel, who did 'All Through the Night' and 'Yolanda and the Thief.' He was from Austria, and was forced to leave when the Nazis came to power.

S.Z. Sakall was Carl the headwaiter in Casablanca, and was Hungarian.

I think you mean John Qualen, who portrayed Berger, part of the resistance. (The man with the ring.) He did many television shows, using his Norwegian background, even though he was Canadian.

You got da straight skinny! Saved me from lookin' it all up. Thanks!

No problem. That's one of the greatest things about computers/tablets.

So many great actors had to flee Nazi Germany and many couldn't find work in films in America. But those who did, all seemed to be in Casablanca!! Let's not forget the suave but usually evil Conrad Veidt as Major Strasser. And his great German films, such as The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and The Man Who Laughs. Sadly he died fairly early in life at age 49. I think he would have gone on to be a presence in American film.

As they say, a movie is 'only as good as its villain'!

Assuredly, no one in this group anyway, will be allowed to forget the great Conrad Veidt.

Veidt has (or had) a strong following in America which lasted up until recently when classics fanship seemed to ebb, somewhat.

I recall it was only a few years ago that I participated in a big online brouhaha about Veidt's salary in 'Casablanca', you know the whole ongoing (well, it was 'ongoing' then) controversy about how, whether, why, and wherefore Veidt scandalously, "earned a bigger fee" than anyone else in the picture. I've chatted with folks who just can't get over this idea.

I think that's an interesting idea about 'only as good as the villain.' Certainly, villains can be better remembered than 'good guys'.

One movie that has an amazing supporting cast is '12 Angry Men'. The performances were outstanding. It's a film that does well on television because of its intimate setting so I have seen it many times. Each juror has his 'moment' (or more). I admit I am partial to Joseph Sweeney, Juror 9, who mostly did television work. He's what I would like to be at any age.

Feliks wrote: "As they say, a movie is 'only as good as its villain'!

Assuredly, no one in this group anyway, will be allowed to forget the great Conrad Veidt.

Veidt has (or had) a strong following in America ..."

Count me in as a follower of Veidt........always have been. I wonder how his career would have gone if he had lived longer. I think he would have aged into older parts easily. He had such an interesting face.

Another strong character actor was Laird Cregar.....the portly young man with the sheep eyes who usually played villains. He died quite young when he went of a crash diet to lose weight in order to procure better parts. He was so unusual looking that I have a feeling he would have been very odd looking as a thinner man. His weight seemed to match his looks. It was not a good idea obviously.

That was a sad, cut-off-too-soon career. He would have gone on to so many good roles!

Hangover Square is a classic.

One of my favorite character actors was Una O'Connor, who Jill mentioned in an earlier post. She was terrific in 'Adventures of Robin Hood' and 'Witness for the Prosecution,' which were made 20 years apart. She was proof you didn't need to be a raving beauty to be successful.

I loved her line about 'having the banns read five times' in Robin Hood.

When you get a chance, watch the British Hitchcock film Murder. She plays a landlady with a passel of children and is really young.

Thanks, Jill. Hope I get to see it.

similar to Billie Whitelaw

That film stars a young and extremely handsome Herbert Marshall. Made in 1930, it was an early talkie and the sound, although restored, is not very good. It features one of the great supporting British actors who has been overlooked by the US.......Esmé Percy. Percy always played very strange characters and was fascinating in his roles.

One of the biggest films ever, for which Conrad Veidt is (unfairly) so least remembered...1940's 'The Thief of Baghdad'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thi...

One character actor that I think had an interesting career was Richard Hale. He originally started out as an opera singer but gradually switched into film. He is probably best known for his television work, but did some well-known films such as 'Friendly Persuasion' and 'To Kill a Mockingbird'. His looks were perfect for an Ebenezer Scrooge or some kind of curmudgeon who was a skinflint. In fact, that's the kind of part I've seen him in most often.

How about that irascible Vermont character, the father of Hazel Flag in 'Nothing Sacred'? (Ben Hecht script). Lombard and March. March roams all over the small town hunting for the 'terminally ill' girl so his paper can get a sob-story out of it. The locals are all so purse-mouthed and curt towards strangers, that finally he throws up his hands, "I could do better in darkest Africa!"

Betsy wrote: "One character actor that I think had an interesting career was Richard Hale. He originally started out as an opera singer but gradually switched into film. He is probably best known for his televis..."

It is hard to imagine him as an opera singer. I would hate to guess how many films he was in.........he had a solid career in character parts.

I know. I was shocked to find out he was a baritone because his speaking voice was kind of grating at times.

Just thought of one supporting actress that I could not stomach. It was Beryl Mercer....you might remember her as Cagney's mother in Public Enemy. In fact, she played the mother of a host of stars. She was always gooey sweet and just too good to be true.

Ah! But not the same kind of 'Ma' to Cagney in 'White Heat'

It might have actually been more intriguing if Cody Jarrett's mother was 'nice' now that I think of it.

I don't think Margaret Wycherly who played Cagney's mother in White Heat could play a "nice" mama. Wasn't she great in that film?

Never seen her in anything else I can think of. But yeah that flick is a landmark.

Can you imagine being a young idiot today and not even knowing about it? Walking around with some dopey smart-device but never having seen 'White Heat'?

Oops. Guilty.

Nah. You're not one of the brain-washed masses.

Make an effort so see it if you can, Spencer. It may be one of Cagney's premier roles. He doesn't just play a criminal.....he plays a psychopathic criminal and he is in top form.

I'm sure he's aware of it but just hasn't gotten around to airing it. After all he may be pursuing other interests, such as classic noir or classic musicals or whatever. But he's not one of these twerps who don't even know where black+white movies ever came from or who made them! :p

Or if they watch classics, they will actually watch normal aspect ratio in widescreen.

Another area I can't make sense of. All the changes in format and presentation...bewildering. I only know that I've seen some classic movies broadcast with the latest and greatest enhancements over the latest and greatest flatscreen smart-tv-sets and they looked execrable. Made me dizzy; even nauseous to try to keep my eyes on the screen. I know some films almost shot-by-shot and whatever they're doing is not better than what I saw on the Late Late Movie as a kid.

Handy list of some of our fave character actors

https://tinyurl.com/wvg4sfg

What a list......I did not go through it all since it was so long but I bet there are some character actors who are not on there.

I had no idea Burgess Meredith came from Ohio. Thought for sure he was British!

I like this page though. I bet someone could write code to extract all the places-of-birth and dump it into a list. In many cases it is the first item listed in the thumbnail.

IMDb seems to have similar pages for other classes of star too. Humm...

of course, on this 'supporting actors' compendium, clearly some of these stars are not just supporting players

I used to write film reviews on IMDb about 10 years ago but haven't been over there forever. I need to go and look at it again. It was a lot of fun and I loved reviewing little known old films with unknown actors but I'm sure that doesn't surprise anyone. I reviewed under the name Bucs1960 if you ever want to get a good laugh.

I guess all those reviews must still be there yeah, but IMDb itself is but a shadow of what it once was...ghost town now. Used to be a giant clearinghouse of movie fans. All started out as a mere bb board, too.

I'm sorry to hear that since it once was a great site for the movie lover.

Indeed. That site committed haru-kiri. Fell on it's own sword. That's why we were all so a-feared when Amazon later took over Goodreads too.

Here is someone I don't think we have talked about before and he is one of the greats.....Dan Duryea. He played villains and weaklings better than anyone and always gave a good performance. I think the only time I saw him play a good guy was late in his career in Flight of the Phoenix. And his most despicable role was probably as Johnny in Scarlett Street with Joan Bennett and Edward G. Robinson. I love that film and the ending really went outside the Code rules in place at the time.

He has a lot of fans for sure. Noirs, westerns, everything.

I kinda like whenever he 'toyed' with his victims with that trademark grating, sardonic laughter of his. So many times!

Similar to Widmark. But he even trots it out in 'Pride of the Yankees'.

And his character name was usually 'Whitey'. Blonde villainous men, a Hollywood standby!

Dan Duryea ...without any viciousness is ..Dan Daily!

I have read that he was actually a very nice guy.....married to the same woman until his death and had strong moral and religious character. The total opposite of the roles that he played.