All About Books discussion

With me and Anastasia, and anyone else interested in joining. We start in August, and feel free to join the discussion.

I may join. I have never read it though everybody recommends it to me since a very long time!

Anastasia, which translation will you read?
I have found this one for my kindle: http://www.amazon.it/Oblomov-i-grandi...
Do you know if BUR makes good translations?

dely wrote: "I may join. I have never read it though everybody recommends it to me since a very long time!

Anastasia, which translation will you read?
I have found this one for my kindle: http://www.amazon.it/..."

I'll read this edition: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9...
I've not read many editions by BUR, but my few experiences were good :) Usually it is pretty reliable.

I'll start the book after the first half of the month. I hope it's not a problem, Charbel! :)

Anastasia wrote: "dely wrote: "I may join. I have never read it though everybody recommends it to me since a very long time!

Anastasia, which translation will you read?
I have found this one for my kindle: http://w..."

Ok, thanks. It isn't the same translator but I'll give a try to the the kindle edition ;)

It's no problem at all Anastasia!

Glad to have you on board Dely!

Charbel wrote: "It's no problem at all Anastasia!

Glad to have you on board Dely!"

Thanks. I'm sure I'll have an interesting discussion with you both.

Started it yesterday. Quite good so far, but to be honest Oblomov, the main character, is getting on my nerves!

Already started? Then I will start too, I've finished yesterday my recommendation swap.

Finished chapter II

Charbel wrote: "Started it yesterday. Quite good so far, but to be honest Oblomov, the main character, is getting on my nerves!"

Why?

I already love him! I have read only the first two chapters and I have that good feeling you feel when you pick a book you love since the first sentences. I love this feeling!

I'm enjoying the book, but not Oblomov himself. Though it did get significantly better after part 1.There's so much to discuss but I shall wait as to avoid spoilers.

dely wrote: "Finished chapter II

Charbel wrote: "Started it yesterday. Quite good so far, but to be honest Oblomov, the main character, is getting on my nerves!"

Why?



I already love him! I have read only the..."

His apathy at the beginning did not really agree with me. Maybe it reminded me too much of myself!

Charbel wrote: "I'm enjoying the book, but not Oblomov himself. Though it did get significantly better after part 1.There's so much to discuss but I shall wait as to avoid spoilers."

Use the spoiler tags! Usually, before writing my message, I add the chapter I have finished so the other members know if they can continue reading, because they have already read these chapters, or if they must be careful. However, I always use spoiler tags.

Charbel wrote: "His apathy at the beginning did not really agree with me. Maybe it reminded me too much of myself! "

It's the reason why I like him. I like characters with whom I can relate. I love these authors who are able to put in words a behavior I have. Well, I'm not exactly like Oblomov...life often reaches me so I must be active but I have a lot in common with him! A friend of mine is like him and when he comes to me we surreder to total Oblomovism.

We all have moments of Oblomovism. In the novel it even seems to infect the servant Zakhar.

Charbel wrote: "We all have moments of Oblomovism. In the novel it even seems to infect the servant Zakhar."

I like also this character and I find funny the scenes when he appears (at least till now). Today I hadn't a lot of time to read so I can't add much more.

finished chapter IX, half through ch. X

I'm going on very slowly. The book has a slow pace till now and a lot of details make it a slow read.

In chapter 8 (or 9, I don't remember very well) Oblomov makes a kind of list why it is impossible for him to move. Do you think he really believes in these excuses or does he try to convince himself?

In chapter 10, that I haven't finished, we can see why he is how he is and there is a good description of the people of the village where he grew up. I don't think that it will be easy for people like him to change and perhaps they don't want to change because their life has always been in this way so for them it's nearly impossible to have another lifestyle.

dely wrote: "finished chapter IX, half through ch. X

I'm going on very slowly. The book has a slow pace till now and a lot of details make it a slow read.

In chapter 8 (or 9, I don't remember very well) Oblom..."

I finished it this morning.

I think he was trying to convince himself. The truth is he knows why he is the way he is, and is aware that it all began in Oblomovka. I think he just doesn't want to face that fact. At least that's my interpretation.

Charbel wrote: "dely wrote: "finished chapter IX, half through ch. X

I'm going on very slowly. The book has a slow pace till now and a lot of details make it a slow read.

In chapter 8 (or 9, I don't remember ver..."

Already finished the whole book? You have been fast!

dely wrote: "Charbel wrote: "dely wrote: "finished chapter IX, half through ch. X

I'm going on very slowly. The book has a slow pace till now and a lot of details make it a slow read.

In chapter 8 (or 9, I do..."

It's a good book!

Yes, I see you gave it 4 stars!

I started it two days ago and now I have to start Chapter IX.
I agree with dely: Zakhar is an interesting character and the duo Oblomov-Zakhar is almost funny! The scene where Oblomov scolds Zakhar because he said that Oblomov is like the others was entertaining, particulary because of Zakhar's inner pain and behavior.
But right after the speech to Zakhar, when Oblomov became aware of himself, that moment was so true: I've experienced a very similar feeling in my most "oblomovian" moments. It was such an acute psychological description. Goncharov must have been a bit oblomovian too to write with that precision!
(But I've seen that this is the only popular book of his production, maybe the possibility of identifying himself with Oblomov was the winning element.)

And my first thought even before starting it was how the writer would manage this kind of novel without becoming boring, till now it's not happened :) Even if dely again is right, it's a bit "heavy" to read, given the main character. Oblomov clearly drags his feet and the pace has to mirror it.

Anastasia wrote: "I started it two days ago and now I have to start Chapter IX.
I agree with dely: Zakhar is an interesting character and the duo Oblomov-Zakhar is almost funny! The scene where Oblomov scolds Zakha..."

Great interpretation Anastasia.

Finished chapter 4 of the second part

The pace is changing in the second part, there is more movement thanks to the arrival of Stolz.

Chapter 4 is a little masterpiece! I can totally relate to Oblomov and I agree with everything he says. I understand why he doesn't want to go out and stay among people because I don't like it either for the same reasons (well, for me it's not a problem, for my psychiatrist it is and the discussion among Oblomov and Stolz was similar to a session with my psychiatrist!). The things he says can refer also to today's society. But I also know that a life like his is impossible so I understand also Stolz and his point of view. The only cure for idleness is action.

I'm curious to see what will happen next.

I was forgetting this: I liked the description of Oblomov's perfect life in the country!

Finished chapter 8 of the second part.

At the end of chapter 8 (view spoiler)[Oblomov and Olga are talking and he says that whole life is there (which consists in loving Olga); Olga answers that only half life is there and that Oblomov must look for the other half in order to not lose the first half. I don't understand to what Olga is referring :/ Which other half of life must Oblomov look for in order to not lose the first half? (hide spoiler)]

In these chapters I love how Goncharov describes (view spoiler)[the pure and simple characters of Olga and Oblomov and their rising love that is clean and honest like the two characters. I liked also the comparison with the way other women flirt with men and agree with Oblomov's choice to choose for his love a simple hearted woman like Olga. I must admit that he sounds very romantic and I also like his frankness. (hide spoiler)]

dely wrote: "Finished chapter 8 of the second part.

At the end of chapter 8 [spoilers removed]

In these chapters I love how Goncharov describes [spoilers removed]"

The second part is where the story really picks up. Regarding to the life question, I wondered about it as well. It could be interpreted in different ways,. Either Olga meant that Oblomov should focus on the future to make up for the past, or she was asking him not to get carried away, and just live in the moment.
It could also be seen as a hint on what happens next in the novel, but I wont say more about that.
Another possible interpretation could be that Olga was advising Oblomov not to let the past affect the present.

Charbel wrote: "Another possible interpretation could be that Olga was advising Oblomov not to let the past affect the present. "

Yes, I was thinking about this too: (view spoiler)[ that he should become a less idle man if he wants to be engaged with her. So the second part about which Oblomov should think is to be less idle, work and things like this if he doesn't want to lose her (hide spoiler)]. Curious to see what will happen next!

Can't wait to know what you both think about the rest of the novel!

Charbel wrote: "Can't wait to know what you both think about the rest of the novel!"

I'm pretty sure to know how it will end but don't tell me if I'm right!

(view spoiler)[Oblomov will lose Olga and will turn back in his Oblomovism because it is stronger than everything else (hide spoiler)]

dely wrote: "Charbel wrote: "Can't wait to know what you both think about the rest of the novel!"

I'm pretty sure to know how it will end but don't tell me if I'm right!

[spoilers removed]"

I won't tell. You'll find out soon enough.

I have finished the second part.

Olga is a very intelligent woman, I like her. I have liked Goncharov's insight in her growth.

Just for one moment I was thinking that (view spoiler)[the love story between Olga and Oblomov was finished because of Oblomov's fear of handling emotions. I really loved chapter 9 and 10 when Oblomov is again struggling with his emotions and writes the letter. I liked the insight in his thoughts and I could totally relate to him: after so many years of loneliness it is difficult to face and handle again emotions, it is very easy to be frightened by them and the habits convey a sense of tranquility; when we think that we aren't worth a dime it is difficult to believe that someone can fall in love with us and we always think that that person can be happy with someone else.
But I liked also how Olga was able to see deep insight Oblomov and see how honest he is. (hide spoiler)]

In chapter 9 Olga says (view spoiler)[ that love is a duty. The word "duty" has for me a negative meaning and so I can't connect it easliy to love that should be positive. More than duty I would say it is responsability and Oblomov doesn't seem a man who wants responsabilities though I changed my opinion at the end of the second part. I liked both the explanations of love (Oblomov's and Olga's) and I think that both are right. (hide spoiler)]

In chapter 10 Oblomov says something very interesting (the whole book is full of interesting quotes, I can't add them because they are in Italian):(view spoiler)[ he says that when we reject every opportunity like a mistake, when do we know when there isn't a mistake? I like this so much because it is true, at least for persons like me: I try to avoid opportunities because I'm always scared to do something wrong or to feel emotions I'm not used to but until I don't try I'm not able to know if it was a good or bad opportunity. It is as if we are scared to try something new/to feel vibrant emotions, not only because we are frightened to fail but sometimes also because we are not able to face success and happiness if we aren't used to it. But in the end, what kind of life do we have if we never try new opportunities/emotions? I can't find it anymore, but there was a quote also about this. (hide spoiler)]

Yesterday I finished Chapter 8 of the second part.

I agree with you: the second part is very engrossing. Olga at the beginning seems an ordinary good woman, even if her clever sideswipes are suggesting that there is more behind her personality than a simple heart and mind. And then it's confirmed by her evolution.
Like dely said, a very intelligent woman, not to underestimate.
But now that the things are changed, they could turn into a "mismatched" couple. No, the term is not right, there are a lot of couple where a leading woman controls a weak man. Somehow the balance is necessary, because of the need of the woman to know of her power towards somebody else and the need of the man to give himself to someone who can decide for him.
I find it sad anyway.
But let's see how the things will develop, I'm curious!
Regarding the life question, I think that Olga was trying to say that Oblomov should learn from his mistakes in order to not waste the past. So the implicit advise was to not commit them anymore and change his behavior. And that's what Olga was trying to with him, supported by Stoltz. Maybe it was subtler than my interpretation, I don't know!

Oblomov's deception towards people is understandable. But Stolz is right: there's not a drastic way to escape the subject of his complaint. Maybe yes, it's only a matter of good choices in our friendships. Everyday life forces us to not avoide average men and conversations. Reducing them to the the bare minimum could be the right choice, and sometimes it seems too much anyway. Ahh! Olga has been a right choice in this case.
But I'm wondering if his deception towards Olga's abrupt change could be avoided. Basically he needs a "pure" woman, but life corrupts every person, it's a matter of experience. In my personal opinion a complex and multifaceted personality is more interesting than a personality which matches his needs. The everyday reality could show that frequently a woman like that has many dull moments to offer.
Surely it's evident that the total absence of any love affair in his life allows him to have an idealized concept of women.

But now that the things are changed, they could turn into a "mismatched" couple. No, the term is not right, there are a lot of couple where a leading woman controls a weak man. Somehow the balance is necessary, because of the need of the woman to know of her power towards somebody else and the need of the man to give himself to someone who can decide for him.

It is strange to see such a "modern" woman in Russian literature of the XIX century.
Sometimes a woman has the "syndrome of the Red Cross nurse" and I don't know how good this is in a couple. It seems to me that such a woman falls in love only if she feels useful to a man. At the beginning she is moved by Oblomov's need of care but however she wants to change him in order to have a "real" man (I don't remember in which part of the book Olga dreams about this).

Basically he needs a "pure" woman, but life corrupts every person, it's a matter of experience.

I don't think so. There are people who will be simple hearted and honest forever, like Oblomov (or like prince Myshkin in The Idiot by Dostoyevsky but there are such people also in real life). Perhaps it's because of this that he doesn't feel at ease among other people and also the reason why he falls in love with Olga. I don't think he has idealized Olga and though he hasn't a lot of experience I feel he knows what he's looking for in a woman. I think also that Olga gives him a sense of tranquility and peaceful habit: a person like Oblomov needs such a woman in order to continue a calm life. A multifaceted personality would cause too much anxiety in a person like Oblomov.

I'm almost done (I'm too tired to finish it this evening). I just can say that this book surprises me because it never happens what I think.

Only one thing of the third part: (view spoiler)[somehow I knew that Olga's love wasn't mature because she wanted to change too much Oblomov; if we love someone we should take him as he is without trying to make of him the person we like. She was in love with an imaginary Oblomov, the one she thought he would become in the future thanks to her. Now I'm thinking about a story of affection among Oblomov and Agafia, the widowed landlady but seen that never happens what I think... (hide spoiler)]

I have finished the book. I was hesitant between a 4 or 5 stars rating. I really liked it but I feel something is missing to consider it a masterpiece but I don't know what. I will think about it or change my rating to 5 stars.

I had the same reaction Dely when I finished it. Eventually I settled for four stars. I agree what you said in comment 30 about love being more than a duty.

dely wrote: "But now that the things are changed, they could turn into a "mismatched" couple. No, the term is not right, there are a lot of couple where a leading woman controls a weak man. Somehow the balance ..."

You're right, dely. I've finished the first chapter of the fourth part. I've changed my mind on what I said about Oblomov. He wasn't idealizing Olga, maybe on the contrary, Olga was embellishing her idea of the Oblomov of the future. Like we saw in the end of the third part. I could hear Ogla speaking during the last dialogue with Oblomov and I was feeling very sorry for her and for him too. It was painful, but very mature, particulary for a literary work.
Don't misunderstand me: we read a lot of love stories where there is pain, but not too often for this doubts, but more for adversities, external enemies and so on. At least in my reading experience I don't see many times such a realistic reproduction of this kind of love stories. In my opinion this element of the book is worth 5 stars.

But like both of you, there's something that stops me from giving it 5 stars. Maybe some chapters set in Oblomov's house are not as engrossing as others. The first thing that comes to my mind to justify that "mysterious something" which is missing.

Anastasia wrote: "At least in my reading experience I don't see many times such a realistic reproduction of this kind of love stories."

Yes, I agree. Goncharov has been really able to look deep inside love and talk about the different points of view seen that everybody has a personal idea of it and looks for different things. Me too, I think it was very mature also for that time and it was the first time I have met such an independent woman in Russian literature.

But like both of you, there's something that stops me from giving it 5 stars. Maybe some chapters set in Oblomov's house are not as engrossing as others. The first thing that comes to my mind to justify that "mysterious something" which is missing.

I have thought about it and the last part of the book was a little bit dragging (though it seems a blasphemy to say something like this!). In my opinion, in the fourth part, the chapters dedicated to (view spoiler)[Olga's and Stolz's life together, above all when she feels depressed, are too long though I know Goncharov has added them to express his opinions about life together. Also the fact that at the end a lot of years are over: everything seems suddenly too fast. From the start when Oblomov needs 100 pages to stand up from his bed, the end seemed too fast though I think that more details would have weighed down the story. (hide spoiler)]

But perhaps it isn't this, I still don't know exactly. From one part the story is perfect, some chapters deserve 5 stars, the opinions of Goncharov are interesting, deep, mature and very well expressed, there are some funny parts with Zachar...everything seems perfect.

The last part was slow even when it was clear that the story was concluded. In any other book, I might have said that the author was just trying to increase the page number, but in this case I think that Goncharov wasn't fully confident in the manner he wanted to deliver the conclusion.

Charbel wrote: "The last part was slow even when it was clear that the story was concluded. In any other book, I might have said that the author was just trying to increase the page number, but in this case I thin..."

Perhaps he didn't want to conclude too fast and in an aprupt way so he has preferred to add parts of life without elaborating too much so he jumps also 3-4 years in Oblomov's life. He adds some parts that could have been deepened (like the many deceits by Tarantiev or the wedding with Agafia) but they would be too long and perhaps Goncharov didn't want to bore the reader. I think he has found a middle way between describing the whole life of Oblomov in details and an aprupt conclusion.
But, yes, I found the third part a little bit dragging and I would have preferred if he had continued with the same pace also if the story would have been much longer.

I don't have rated it yet, but I think I'll give it 5 stars anyway. :)
I liked the part about Stolz and Olga, maybe because I love them as a couple. Maybe Goncarov was trying to compare an happily married life to Oblomov's uneventful days and he needed to develop their story in dedicated chapters, without being too fast. Olga and Stolz particularly are the opposite of "oblomovism": they are very active and full of life. In this way Oblomov's future sounds even more "blamable", because we see the simultaneous future of his friends. But in the last case being detailed about the last years of Oblomov could have weighed down the story, as dely said. It's always the same "oblomovian life", there was no need of detailed descripition about what we already know.
But I would have appreciated if Goncarov had dedicated more paragraphs about Andrej, the son and Oblomov as a father. He has popped up from nothing. Knowing it with Stolz was strange, given that there has always been a privileged point of view about his life. Surely seeing the progress of his life from a window and not directly with an inner point of view could help to put some distance between the world (and also the readers?) and Oblomov's retired life.
I definitely agree about the middle way in the progression of the story.

Anastasia wrote: "In this way Oblomov's future sounds even more "blamable", because we see the simultaneous future of his friends. "

You are right! Perhaps it's because of this I didn't like a lot the chapters about the happy life of Olga and Stolz though he has added the problems of Olga's depression (but they are both "perfect" and so they would be able to come out of dark times in their lives). It seemed to me that Goncharov wanted to underline how wrong Oblomov was but I like him so much, I didn't want his life would be compared with a "perfect" life.
At the end, when Stolz wants to bring him away for the last time, Oblomov tells him that it is useless because he would never be like him. I know Stolz wanted to help but shouldn't be there respect for a person who choses a different life? Why some people want the others to live like them as if only their way of living is right? Oblomov would never have been able to live like Stolz.
Yes, perhaps I didn't like a lot this comparison with these perfect people in order to show how wrong Oblomov was.

I wouldn't say that there was something "wrong" with Oblomov, but I think that he did have an illness, and not Oblomovka disease. Though at first it seemed that Oblolmov was just another lazy noble, as the story progressed, I began to suspect that he may have suffered from a sort of depression. What did seem to cure him for a bit was the beginning of his relationship with Olga; the mystery and excitement that it brought. But one monotony took over his condition took over again, just proving that the mundane- or what is gradually becoming mundane- is toxic to Oblomov. I don't think that a trip to the country could have cured him, but perhaps a trip to a specialized doctor.

I was wondering, regarding the whole Tarantiev dishonesty, were you disturbed by Tarantiev's corrupt nature and willingness to steal form a "friend", or outraged about Oblomov's indifference to the subject?

I was wondering, regarding the whole Tarantiev dishonesty, were you disturbed by Tarantiev's corrupt nature and willingness to steal form a "friend", or outraged about Oblomov's indifference to the subject?

Charbel wrote: "I was wondering, regarding the whole Tarantiev dishonesty, were you disturbed by Tarantiev's corrupt nature and willingness to steal form a "friend", or outraged about Oblomov's indifference to the..."

I couldn't stand Tarantiev because I don't like such dishonest people; I find them absolutely disagreeable. Perhaps Goncharov has added such a character exaggerating him by purpose to show what happens if people are like Oblomov.
I would have liked that Oblomov would have been more smart but it happens also in real life that such good-hearted people are the firsts to be deceived. Somehow I can't blame Oblomov because I don't think that his goodness had something to do with his idleness. In my opinion he has been deceived because of his goodness and not because of his idleness. Of course, if he would have been less idle he would have noticed sooner that Tarantiev was deceiving him.

Charbel wrote: "I wouldn't say that there was something "wrong" with Oblomov, but I think that he did have an illness, and not Oblomovka disease. Though at first it seemed that Oblolmov was just another lazy noble..."

I've thought about reading Oblomov's disease as depression, but at the end he was truly satisfied with his lazy life, so I don't think that we could call it "depression" in its usual meaning..

I agree with dely: he has been deceived more for his goodness than his idleness, and I couldn't be outraged for this. I was more irked for Tarantiev's annoying nature. He belongs to that kind of person who ruin everything he touches.