Nature Literature discussion

Navi wrote: "Ray wrote: "Yes - having worked as an environmental educator and park ranger for a good potion of my life, I find resonance with the need to learn from experience. I also took field botany classes ..."

I worked at Asateague Island National Seashore as a seasonal ranger, and at Blue Hills Reservation just outside Boston as a Naturalist - this second is a state reserve. I also worked at numerous private reserves including the Chattanooga Nature Center (11 years there).

It is a dynamic environment, but the government positions are political, as are any government positions. Not in terms of electoral politics, but more hierarchical and bureaucratic.
Will never forget the birds of Assateague though.

Also spent a brief time on Cape Cod - went on several whale watches while I was there. Lived in Truro at a retired Coast Guard station.

I’m in the middle of Chapter 13. I found Shellings (sp ?) influence on him interesting; subjectivity is now added to empirical methods where they were disdained before. Humboldt got people eeing Nature as an organism as opposed to a machine.
Humboldt’s book Views of Nature combined prose and scientific observation which is influential on science writing today.

I also liked the part about “Humboldt read plants as others did books; they revealed a global force behind Nature its movements of civilization as well as landmass. No one had ever approached botany that way before. Basically the dude was at one word the flora. What a remarkable gift. I’m a bit jealous of that actually.

I found most of the stories about the notable political leaders of the time and Humboldt’s influence on or by them fairly insightful but the long part about Simone de Bolivar a bit distracting. It made Humboldt sound more like the father of Geography.

One other thing that caught my attention was when they talked about him as a person. That he could really enjoy his schadenfreude and would make up unflattering nicknames about those he knew and would set up people to fail which is pretty bullying. This seems odd for someone who also believed that nature is the domain of liberty and also was lonely for company. It sounded like he could be a bit petty and nasty and at the same time about others short comings when he certainly had his own when it came to interpersonal relationships. He couldn’t relate at time and others he really bonded with one individual or another. Makes me wonder if he might have been either ‘on the spectrum’ or a bit bipolar. Anyone also wonder that?

Navi wrote: "I'm in the middle of Chapter 18. I cannot believe that Humboldt had such an influence on Darwin's worldview but he remains an mostly unknown figure.

A few quotes showcasing the similarities betwe..."

Indeed - one of the functions of Ellis Island was to detect diseases and keep carriers out of the country. I remember a movie I saw in middle school - mid 1960's - that showed a photograph of several people. An x appeared across one portrait and then that person vanished from the group shot. It was a graphic demonstration of the exclusion. I remember that voice over narrator saying something like, sadly, many were excluded.

Sher wrote: "Navi
I enjoyed the Russia journey very much, and going back to the Anthrax outbreak. In those days an outbreak of disease could be isolated - by not allowing people in and out, and because the regi..."

Actually, I meant my words above as a response to this entry.

Navi wrote: "I'm in the middle of Chapter 18. I cannot believe that Humboldt had such an influence on Darwin's worldview but he remains an mostly unknown figure.

A few quotes showcasing the similarities betwe..."

I started to read The Voyage of the Beagle once. Still have a copy somewhere and recently got it as an eBook. Need to sit down and read it sometime.

I am now in the final chapter, Preservation and Nature. I was not aware of the writings of George Perkins Marsh or Ernst Haeckel, though Haeckel was probably mentioned in the text for an Ecology class I took as an undergraduate. We did learn that the word ecology was derived from the Greek word oikos. I was aware of Gifford Pinchot, who Humboldt influenced via Haeckel. He served as the first director of the U.S. Forest Service, appointed by Teddy Roosevelt.

I recently read A Thousand Mile Walk to the Gulf http://vault.sierraclub.org/john_muir... and found it informative. Unlike Humboldt, Muir traveled alone, but he had his plant press with him from Indiana to Florida, where he shipped specimens to someone in Wisconsin.

Sarah wrote: "I’m in the middle of Chapter 13. I found Shellings (sp ?) influence on him interesting; subjectivity is now added to empirical methods where they were disdained before. Humboldt got people eeing Na..."

I got the sense that Humboldt had really intense emotions, passions, and drives. I wasn't entirely surprised that he had some personal relationship issues. I did't really think about bi-polar, but he sure seemed manic at times.

If not manic which he definitely had moments of, I thought of him as showing autism spectrum signs that would not be known as such then. Or it could be a fascinating mish-mosh of a difficult mother, being more interested in men than ladies, and wanting interpersonal relationships and not knowing how to go about them properly. I know a couple of people in my own world that fit that description.

I am finished! I thought the distinction between Marsh's view of conservation, which is done to sustain the environment for economy and Muir's preservation - the setting aside tracts of Nature so that it may remain wild and unspoiled an interesting comparison. In this world we probably need both.

I loved the section on Muir, and it made me feel like returning to read some more Muir. I did not know that Marsh influenced both Muir and Pinchot. And, of course March was influenced by Humboldt. Interesting Marsh predicted the Dust Bowl. I don't mean the eve in the US, but that this could happen.

Heckle (sp?) was also very interesting especially the way he vacillated so wildly in his vocation , and he finally found his niche. It would be lovely to see his drawings, but I have not had time to take a look.

Humboldt's Cosmos had many pre-darwinian ideas!

Also of note that Heckle created the term Ecology.

Muir's exploration and observations in Yosemite reflected Humboldt's view of nature when Muir reflected 165,000 flowers big and small all interwoven together - you can't pick out one things as more important - they are all important and interconnected.

This great quote but it is not necessarily positive -- "destruction is always creation."


Do you think to understand nature, one's feelings are as important as the data?

Need to attend a family dinner- I'll be back with some final, final thoughts.

Finished the book. I agree with the authors hypothesis in the Epilogue. Will not say more.

Right Ray! I will be back to address the Epilogue this weekend. Loved this book!

Hi Ray and all-- so the author makes a variety of cases at the of the book for why Humboldt isn't well known today. Probably the most compelling to me-- is his ancestry being German.

But I realized that in a way -- Humboldt is incredibly well known even more than hardly any other scientist, because he is known or seen through the influence he had on so many great thinkers and scientists that came after Humboldt. His influence on others' works has been profound. I got the impression that the subsequent scientists are related to Humboldt. They don't stand alone, but have been influenced by his theories, so he's well remembered even if the Humboldt , the name is not.

Indeed - his reach is far.

Becky wrote: "Please add your comments about The Invention of Nature here."

Hello Becky,
sorry for coming late to the party. What's the time line? When should we have read/finish the book?

With many thanks (and my apologies)
Gisela

Gisela, I'm reading the book. Still in the beginning parts.
Imagining that we can extend this discussion for as long as we like.
Folks are reading a new book for July, but I'm slowly reading the Alexander Humboldt book.

ease and peace ~

Gisela wrote: "Becky wrote: "Please add your comments about The Invention of Nature here."

Hello Becky,
sorry for coming late to the party. What's the time line? When should we have read/finish the book?

With m..."

Hi Gisela:
usually folks read the book within the month, but if some people have not finished reading the book by month's end, then the conversation can go on for as long as people want to discuss the book. Several of us have already completed the June book, but we'd be happy to revisit The Invention of Nature: Alexander von Humboldt's New World, if you have questions or comments.

Sher
Moderator

This book, while fascinating, has been slow reading so I’m still in the game, too.

Hi Gisela,

As others have said above, there's no definitive deadline on our BOTMs.
As long as people are still interested in the thread, it's there for you to comment!

Becky

Gisela wrote: "Becky wrote: "Please add your comments about The Invention of Nature here."

Hello Becky,
sorry for coming late to the party. What's the time line? When should we have read/finish the book?

With m..."

The book is fascinating. I will probably read selected chapters again, particularly the one on the Orinoco and the one on the Andes. The chapter on Kosmos is also a winner.

I am about 85% done with book. I seem to approach it in fits and starts. For some reason Humbolt got a wee bit irksome, but then the chapters on whom he influenced and especially how they were thrown out of their own limited orbit into a larger one that included Humbolt’s who own had so very many satellites!
Humbolt a catalyst of extraordinary proportion! BUT he goes and talks through a private concert upstaging the composer at the piano! I could see if he was at a wine bar, but he invited the guy to play and then ignored him and ruined his performance which is so insulting to a musical you wonder how he didn’t go of in a rage! But Humbolt was so big that no one got that mad. They just called it a duet. That killed me. Science superstar exceeds rock star. Or classical star.

I have had the same thing done to me at poetry readings, and I have seen really rude audiences pay no attention to other performers. I once shouted to a large number of people that some of us were trying to hear the presenter.

People can be so rude, but it surprised me with Humbolt’s breeding that he would be some arrogant to not notice how inappropriate his behavior was. You know his mother was quite a stickler about that sort of thing and that usually makes a life long impression on a person, but he seemed a bit drunk on his own knowledge and the need to lecture others. People did seem to be sitting at his feet to snatch any wisdom he’d throw their way.

I go somewhere now and I’m almost surprised by good manners and proper behavior. It often seems to be the exception to the rule these days. I have also turned into my grandmother so perhaps that colors things.

His mother may have over done it to the point that he never came out of the rebellious phase.

Good point!