Classics and the Western Canon discussion
General
>
Planning Our Third 2018 Read
I am undecided between Moby Dick and Ivanhoe.
Patrice wrote: "what a great list! but what happened to spinoza?"Sorry, Patrice. The god-like Random Book Generator™ did not bear its golden lamp upon Spinoza this round. Maybe he will make the list next time.
Cphe wrote: "Homer doesn't finish until the end of June though does it?Still early days."
June 20-26 -- Books 23&24 and the Odyssey as a whole.
June 27 - July 10 - Interim Read
July 11th will be here before you know it.
David wrote: "While Odysseus .."Very opinionated and subjective, unmediated response from me, and me alone:
1) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck "You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" How the heck is this even on the bookshelf?
2. Moby Dick, by Herman Melville- tried to do this earlier this year with "Reading the Chunksters." It is a whale of a book.
3) The Nature of the Gods by Marcus Tullius Cicero- this was nominated by me when we were doing De officia, but it would be the third classic in a row, and therefore (?) too soon for mo' Cicero.
4) A Philosophical Enquiry into the Origin of our Ideas of the Sublime and Beautiful by Edmund Burke I have read this. It is surprisingly boring.
5) Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau- definitely TBR. Isn't it kind of long?
6) Demons by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
(sometimes also titled The Possessed or The Devils)-
Dostoevsky rocks. Haven't read this since college.
7) The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abissinia by Samuel Johnson-
Very short. Even this group could probably do it in a month.
8) Ivanhoe by Walter Scott- my Aunt Dorothy's kind of classic. Used to torture high school students a century ago. Therefore it is probably insipid, long-winded, dull- a game not worth the candle.
Christopher wrote: "David wrote: "While Odysseus .."Very opinionated and subjective, unmediated response from me, and me alone:
So your choices must be:
1. East of Eden, because everyone needs to stretch their bookshelves occasionally. (One of the primary reasons I am drawn to this group; reading books I never may never have chosen to on my own - Bleak House, who knew!)
2. Moby Dick, because it is a whale of a good book and you can finally finish it.
3. Cicero, because you nominated it.
I would give any of these a go, except the Steinbeck, which I read a long time ago. Even then, when I didn't have as much reading experience behind me as I do know, I was very surprised at how much soap opera there was to it. Not really interested in Rousseau either, but a setting like this is probably the only way I'd ever consider it. Moby Dick, Demons, and Ivanhoe I'd be excited about. The rest I'd give a try.
I read half of Moby Dick a few years back, until I got distracted by other projects, and was really enjoying it. Would love to do the whole thing with the group. And Demons has been on my list for a while. I also could do with reading more Burke and Rousseau, so this is a tough choice.I read Rasselas and Ivanhoe as a teen. The former is short and didn't leave much impression, but I read the latter several times and must have enjoyed it. Cicero would be fun. The only one I don't have any real interest in is Steinbeck, though please don't ask me to justify my apathy.
Cphe wrote: 1) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck "You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" How the heck is t..."Gee Chris.......tell us how you really think.
And who is Lisa?
David wrote: "And who is Lisa?"
East of Eden makes me think of James Dean, James Dean makes me think of Tommy Wisseau.
Christopher wrote: "2. Moby Dick, by Herman Melville- tried to do this earlier this year with "Reading the Chunksters." It is a whale of a book."I invite you to read my review from our initial read of Moby Dick.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
My opinions:1) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck - Haven't read; neutral.
2. Moby Dick, by Herman Melville - Extracts from my Goodreads review: "A disappointment, given its reputation. High-flown and pretentious. Full of ponderous portents and awful alliteration. So sink already, thou fated fearful frigate, and get it over with!" 3 stars.
3) The Nature of the Gods by Marcus Tullius Cicero - Want to read. I'd like to know what a Noble Pagan thought of the gods. And stoicism seems right for our times.
4) A Philosophical Enquiry into the Origin of our Ideas of the Sublime and Beautiful by Edmund Burke - Burke has got to be good.
5) Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau - Extracts from my review: "This is an important book, and much of it is fun and even fascinating to read, especially the First Part, before he departs for Paris and fame. Let's start by giving Rousseau his due. He indeed lays bare his soul with preternatural honesty. Every youthful folly, sexual experiment, ridiculous crush, infatuation, extravagance, missed opportunity, and betrayal is told directly and openly. . . . On the other hand: He does not suffer from false modesty. The bragging is not on every page, but Rousseau is careful to let us know of all the times he refrained from claiming credit for himself. . . . And he assures us, 'I was never conceited.'" 3 stars.
6) Demons by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
(sometimes also titled The Possessed or The Devils) - Dostoyevsky also seems right for our times.
7) The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abissinia by Samuel Johnson - Read. Lightweight.
8) Ivanhoe by Walter Scott - My review: "This is an historical romance, and it is full of romantic nineteenth-century nonsense about the Middle Ages. Nevertheless, it is great fun. Knights, jousts, chivalry. King Richard, Prince John, Robin Hood, Friar Tuck, and Alan-a-Dale all make appearances. Little John is absent; apparently he is off on a mission for Robin." 4 stars. We could read it to understand why stuff like this was once so wildly popular, and now is not.
Overall, I might go for Cicero on the first ballot.
I would do Dostoevsky or Melville with the most enthusiasm. Steinbeck and I do not get along.
I'm also disappointed Spinoza is off the list--I'd love to read the Tractatus Theologico-Politicus with others. Maybe someday... I was planning to re-read Moby Dick this summer anyway, so that would be my top choice:
1. Moby Dick, by Herman Melville
I don't know enough about the other readings to have strong opinions, though I'm curious about Johnson's Rasselas. I think I would always read something by Dostoyevsky.
Steinbeck and Scott ... I feel like I like them in theory but will probably not have the patience to really commit to them...
You know, I'm thinking the poll for this selection is going to be the high point of my week. I'm curious to see how it shakes out.
I don't have strong feelings - back from my hike in France I've got to get caught up on Odysseus' goings on.Haven't read East of Eden, though I like Steineck.
Love Dostoevsky, but haven't read Demons yet.
Haven't read Moby Dick, but Roger has me wondering if I really want to.
Not much interested in Rousseau's confessions.
Would rather read something else by Scott, but would join in a re-read (for me) of Ivanhoe.
No strong feelings on he rest. Not that the above are necessarily strong. :-)
John wrote: "I don't have strong feelings - back from my hike in France I've got to get caught up on Odysseus' goings on.Would rather read something else by Scott, but would join in a re-read (for me) of Ivanhoe.
*****
I agree I’d rather read something else by Scott. since I’ve read Ivanhoe twice, but it might be fun to discuss.
The group bookshelf shows Ivanhoe, Kenilworth, The Lay of the Last Minstrel/The Lady of the Lake, and Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border for Sir Walter, so maybe something else will pop up in the future...
Haha. My roommates apparently bought a boat yesterday... Moby Dick, here I come!
I voted for Ivanhoe, but Moby Dick would be a good choice too.
I voted for Moby Dick because I finally got the Norton Critical edition on my kindle and want to make the most of this opportunity. I usually carry and read my books in the subway and I've heard the font size of the paperback edition is really miniscule so I'm happy to find the e-book version. A book on cetaceans and the sea sounds pretty good for a beach read in summer. :-)
Cphe wrote: "I don't know which to vote for!! (face palm)I'm such a ditherer."
East of Eden!
The Amazing Alexander and critics agree. "I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I'll read it again and again."
I couldn't decide between East of Eden and Moby Dick, so I voted for Demons. When in doubt, vote for the Russian.(This rule applies only in literature and not in politics.)
Remember to vote. The poll will end at: Jun 14, 2018 08:59PM PDT.
This question was asked in another discussion topic: Are the votes seen in the poll are already weighted? The answer is, they are not. What we see on goodreads poll pages are raw votes. Your faithful and hard working moderators are then given the opportunity to perform the weighting by hand at the close of the poll. Weighting the vote by number of posts is an incentive reward for members who are the most active and committed to the group discussions. If you want more influence, be more active in the discussions! If the weighted vote is still close between the top choices and there enough "other" votes to make a difference, the moderators may decide that a run-off poll between the top choices is needed. Unless there are a lot of last minute votes that shift the results decisively in this poll, a runoff poll between Moby-Dick and East of Eden is likely.
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...If you go to the top of any page belonging to this group, including this one, you should see a cluster of links on the right side, including one for Polls
One more day to vote!The poll ends at: Jun 14, 2018 08:59PM PDT
For our members who are not in the Pacific Time Zone: Pacific Daylight Time (PDT) is 7 hours behind Coordinated Universal Time (UTC).
The run-off poll between Moby-Dick and East of Eden for our third read of 2018 is up.Poll ends: Jun 22, 2018 11:59PM PDT
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...
Time is running out! Only two more days to vote in the run-off poll between Moby-Dick and East of EdenPoll Ends: Jun 22, 2018 11:59PM PDT
East of Eden is one of my favorite books. Just sayin...I’m new and you dont know me. I’ve only joined a few GR groups and none were ever active so I assumed no one used GR to discuss. This group was pointed out to me and here I am! I love discussing books online and have been wanting to read East of Eden this year, but haven’t started it yet. Soooo....let’s vote for that...ok? 😉
Ashley wrote: "East of Eden is one of my favorite books. Just sayin...I’m new and you dont know me. I’ve only joined a few GR groups and none were ever active so I assumed no one used GR to discuss. This group ..."
I like your attitude Ashley. A primary goal of this group is to have great conversations. Emote, enjoy, opine, agree, agreeably disagree, but post, its more fun that way. All of our previous discussions are available and still open for posting so post there if you like and someone may even respond. I hope East of Eden wins so you can tell us what you think. Happy reading, no spoilers, and don't forget to vote.
It was as close as it could be and still have a winner. In the end the weighted votes were tied so it fell to the raw votes to decide.R WMoby-Dick will be our third read of 2018 and chapter discussions will begin on July 11 after our 2 week interim read. Background and
16 29 Moby-Dick
15 29 East of Eden
Yay! I had the chance to participate in a read-a-thon of Moby Dick and am so glad I now have the chance to read it with all of you.
Ouch, that's a tough loss. Losses like that are brutal. Hope East of Eden fans recover their confidence :-)I'll try and join in. This will be like my upteenth attempt at the Whale, but my first one with a group. Each time I buy a different edition -- doesn't help. Here's hoping a group read makes the difference.
I think there should be simultaneous, parallel discussions of both.East of E voters have every reason to question the "system," man.
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "I'll try and join in."You voted for it.
Anyway, I always enjoyed your posts, I hope you can participate.
Christopher wrote: "I think there should be simultaneous, parallel discussions of both.East of E voters have every reason to question the "system," man."
You read on the internet. It must be true.
~ Abraham Lincoln
I was rooting for East of Eden, too, but guess we are headed out to sea again. Since Moby Dick is one of my favorite novels, it’s sort of win/win for me ;) and I’m looking forward to visiting it with the group.
Cphe wrote: "Have to admit I was hoping for East to win. For some reason I haven't read Steinbeck and thought it would read better with a group.You can always find a Moby Dick reading group "somewhere" in cyb..."
Cphe,
Reading the Chunksters did the big whale earlier this year.
I got past the sermon (where most first timers bog down) but didn't get much further.
Steinbeck doesn't strike me as all that weighty or difficult.
On the contrary, he was a staple for the high school syllabus in my day because his symbolism was so easy to teach. Also things like foreshadowing, "ironic justice," etc.
Hence, I have a lingering condescending view of him.
Great! I will enjoy the book more this time reading it with the group.
Glad to see MD won--I don't remember where I bogged down on my first attempt--somewhere in the description of how to render blubber, I think.Anyway, I think this is at the top of my 'classics-I-haven't-read-yet' list, and I'm happy to try it with a group.
I have tried to get through this novel many times, but as with so many others the group has read, I find reading the commentary SO helpful with appreciating these works even though keeping up with the comments for participation has been problem. Adding Moby Dick to my to be purchased list.
Chris wrote: "I have tried to get through this novel many times, but as with so many others the group has read, I find reading the commentary SO helpful with appreciating these works even though keeping up with ..."Chris--and anyone else who might be interested, you can download Moby Dick for free through Project Gutenberg.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/searc...
Thanks, Tamara. I have not converted to any type of e-reading for anything longer than an email!
If anyone is looking for an audio version of Moby Dick, this one is free and kind of fun, with each chapter read by a different person.http://www.mobydickbigread.com
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Ouch, that's a tough loss. Losses like that are brutal. Hope East of Eden fans recover their confidence :-)I'll try and join in. This will be like my upteenth attempt at the Whale, but my first o..."
Too late. My confidence was shattered by Dostoevsky's drubbing in the first round, sorta like Germany's loss to Mexico. :-) I was certain East of Eden was going to win and almost bought a copy on Saturday to ensure it would arrive on time. But . . . no confidence, so I didn't. Well, at least that worked out. ;-)
But just as Germany bounced back, I will dive into Moby Dick, which I have some how avoided reading before.
John wrote: "My confidence was shattered by Dostoevsky's drubbing in the first round, sorta like Germany's loss to Mexico...."John, hope you had a chance to participate in the two recent Dostoevsky reads, BK and C&P. The discussions are still in the archives.
My EoE will continue to plead from my book storage: "Retrieve me! You need not always be driven by group reads...."
Susan wrote: "If anyone is looking for an audio version of Moby Dick, this one is free and kind of fun, with each chapter read by a different person.http://www.mobydickbigread.com"
Thanks, Susan! I have participated in the Big Read at Mystic Seaport, which was fun, but still have never "captured" the complete whale. I am told the last chapters are the "good part of the story." (Really was hoping for EoE.)
Lily wrote: "Retrieve me! You need not always be driven by group reads...." Wow, ain't that the truth? That's all I seem to be reading these days.
1) East of Eden, by John Steinbeck
2. Moby Dick, by Herman Melville
3) The Nature of the Gods by Marcus Tullius Cicero
4) A Philosophical Enquiry into the Origin of our Ideas of the Sublime and Beautiful by Edmund Burke
5) Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
6) Demons by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
(sometimes also titled The Possessed or The Devils)
7) The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abissinia by Samuel Johnson
8) Ivanhoe by Walter Scott