The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

I wasn't sure where to put this, sorry.
(short stories? pulp era? other?)
I almost always avoid stuff that's non-traditionally published, but the thought of a woman writing in the 40s & 50s under her own name is ever so intriguing.

I saw this book promoted in the SFFBC and thought that it would be an even better fit here, surprised not to see it. Especially because I know that some of you are avid readers of audiobooks, and this current promotion is for the audio of this book.

I just sent a request off for a code for the kindle edition. Even if they don't send me a code, I'll probably buy it, as it's only $3 in kindle.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I don't see why she shouldn't have her own topic with other SF authors, Cheryl.

Here is a bio of her:
https://futurespasteditions.com/?p=1804

This link shows a different idea. She might have been a pseudonym.
http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/B...

I doubt the name is a pseudonym. Some women were adopting male pseudonyms at that time, not the other way around!

ISFDB lists precisely seventeen science fiction short stories written by her. They probably don't list her four (?) detective stories.

During her active period of writing, 1944-1952 (Why did it span only nine years?), it was next to impossible to publish a science fiction novel if it was written for adults. Heinlein, for exmple, didn't want to write juveniles. It was the only game in town. So I don't consider it a strike against Frances M. Deegan at all that she was only able to publish short stories.

If anyone finds the text of any of her science fiction stories available somewhere, can you share here where you find it? I'd love to read a few.

The only text by here I was able to find was a very short (just six pages) detective story published in 1945 here: https://archive.org/details/Detective...

Edit: Oh wow! Here's quite a few of her stories at a website I've never come across before: http://www.unz.com/print/author/Deega...

I printed out and read the first story, "The Cat Snake". The first two thirds of the way through I did not think I was reading science fiction, but perhaps some weird sort of fantasy. It eventually became a time travel story of a sort. I wasn't greatly impressed with the story or the writing. I give it a generous three stars.

The writing style was strangely masculine. The dialogue between the two men and the slight misogyny gives credence to the pseudonym theory.

Interesting, Dan. Thanks for looking into it & finding the stories. I'll try to look at them later.

I read "The Cat-Snake" & "The Green Cat". The latter was much better. She definitely writes like one of the old hard-boiled guys with all the "dolls" & such.

The book Partners in Wonder: Women and the Birth of Science Fiction, 1926-1965 dismisses the pseudonym idea and has a short bio of her taken from January 1946 Mammoth Detective. (I haven't read the book, but Google Books allows seeing the relevant excerpt.)

She talks about hanging around with gangsters and one time riding with a gangster and being "beaten to a bloody pulp with his gun butt. I'm still alive, but he isn't."

Interesting. After reading some stuff by Anonymous-9 & Christa Faust, I shouldn't be surprised.

Thanks for sharing that book, Ed. How fortunate we are to be able to read about Frances Deegan on pages 377-378. Otherwise we would know so much less.

Five feet two and weighed 90-odd pounds! Never married because nobody asked? What a fascinating life she seems to have lived. I wonder if getting married in 1952, if she did, might have been the cause of ceased production. Probably not. Her gravestone lists her name as Frances Deegan, making it seem unlikely she ever married. Maybe she just did other things after she turned 51 and stopped writing. I wonder if she wrote more detective stories than she wrote science fiction.

Looks like an interesting book. Though I'd probably like something shorter. I'd enjoy a discussion of women in pulp SF, but don't necessarily want to read 400 pages about it. And the current price is steep. $36 for a kindle version!

I recommend changing her name in this folder to include her middle initial "M", since she always published with it. There are other Frances Deegans apparently.

I am reading "The Martian and the Milkmaid" currently, her first science fiction story. It's a hoot so far.

Name change made. Good catch.

Over on another group, Jim wrote "She wrote 21 stories and 35 articles under her own name for the science fiction pulps between 1944 and 1952, when few other women were selling to them at all."

That fits with what I've always heard. The book I referenced above, Partners in Wonder, claims that there were actually lots of women published in the pulps. That is why I'm curious to read it, but probably won't.

Ed wrote: "Over on another group, Jim wrote "She wrote 21 stories and 35 articles under her own name for the science fiction pulps between 1944 and 1952, when few other women were selling to them at all."..."

That was in the Sci-Fi & Heroic Fantasy group, wasn't it? It's another Jim & that was copied from the link I listed below as her bio. It's here:
https://futurespasteditions.com/?p=1804

Jim wrote: "It's another Jim..."

Sorry, I didn't notice that. Anyway my point is still that I'd like to know more about the true percentage of women writers and readers in the pulp era.

I just read The Early Asimov and The Early del Rey, in which the authors intersperse memoirs with previously un-anthologized stories. Both of those did admit a dearth of women colleagues, an experience that the tribe was all-male.

I meant to address that & got called to dinner, so forgot. I was reading a book about comic books which mentioned something that got me googling. I saved this article in my Pocket. It touches on some of the pulp women.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/01/bo...

From the comic book & other reading, I get the feeling that editors & publishers didn't really know who was reading their stuff.

Dan wrote: "I am reading "The Martian and the Milkmaid" currently, her first science fiction story..."

I just read that, too, using the link in message 3, and it was fine. Then I went ahead and read the next story in the magazine, "Fair Exchange" by Miles Shelton which was also fun. A sort of Freaky-Friday story of a hen-pecked husband and his parrot-pecked dog. Not Great Literature, but fun.

In the letters section is a letter from, gasp, a woman reader, who "absolutely jelled in broad daylight" over one of the stories in a previous volume and will be buying Fantastic Adventures from now on.

Also Remember: Buy More Bonds!

The ads in those old magazines are almost as fun reading as the stories themselves, aren't they?

I read most of the short stories you found by her, Ed. Not very good, but interesting in various ways. I reviewed them in the only book I could find that had one of her stories in it. I only gave it a 2 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Jim wrote: "I read most of the short stories you found by her, Ed...."

Dan found them first.

Oh, my apologies. Thanks, Dan!

Hi Jim. That was a really good synopsis and coverage of her short stories, something like what I hope to do when I find the time. I wonder if when I finish I'll agree with your assessments.

I recommend you attach your review here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7... rather than where you did. You probably didn't find the book I recommend because the original creator of it failed to use the author's middle initial "M" making two Frances Deegans in GoodReads, something I've just corrected.

Thanks, Dan. I did swap & should have started with this since it's the one you posted. My only excuse is that it was a rough week. I read these stories while waiting to see what problems servers would have as they rebooted. The new review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Wow! In message #7 above the book mentioned (Partners in Wonder: Women and the Birth of Science Fiction, 1926-1965) is by Eric Leif Davin. I know Eric! I worked with him extensively for several months a few years ago when I was a professional editor to edit his book about female vampire pirates: The Scarlet Queen. I didn't do much to the plot of the book. That was strong and well established. But I copy edited the crap out of every sentence of every paragraph.

Anyway, what a small world! I never would have equated the two books as having the same author. The book mentioned above in message #7 is a scholarly achievement with fantastic research full of really obscure yet important information to the history of the field of science fiction, particularly if you want to know how women contributed to its origination. It's full of facts I had no idea about and is a writing achievement that impresses the hell out of me. The Scarlet Queen was intellectually so much lighter, even rather silly at points, I'm afraid to say. I knew The Scarlet Queen would never be a best seller. I just can't believe these two authors are the same person.

Dan wrote: "Wow! In message #7 above the book mentioned (Partners in Wonder: Women and the Birth of Science Fiction, 1926-1965) is by Eric Leif Davin. I know Eric! ..."

Cool. Neat when that happens.

So did you read Partners in Wonder ? It does look interesting.

I recently ordered a copy. They are out of print and not possible to locate for much under forty dollars, which is about five times more than I like to pay for any book. But this book I just had to have. So many names of writers of good fiction I know nothing about....

My copy finally arrived today. It is absolutely sensational, far and away the best book on science fiction history I have ever seen or read.

I thought I knew my science fiction authors well. Of the 203 women listed who published nearly 1000 science fiction stories between April 1926 and 1960, I've heard of maybe five percent. The biographic and bibliographic information on them here is invaluable.

Not only that, but this book is no mere encyclopedia. The chapters are history articles written in formal Academese. Davin sheds a lot of light on all the major writers. Who knew Asimov was so lecherous all his life, all hands on deck with every woman it seems he ever met, and such a vociferous critic of women SF writers in his early days? He railed at them in letters columns for writing what he called sentimental "slop".

Great stuff here, and I'm only up to page 4 of 429. I'll share some of the facts found in the content by gradually posting author topics of (women) writers long forgotten as time goes on, like this topic here on Deegan.

It sounds really good, Dan. I found a copy for $33 on AbeBooks.

It's well worth it. I know you share this interest and will therefore not be disappointed.

Super. What really amazes me is the Kindle edition is so bloody expensive. $42, I think. Ridiculous!

The book is a formal history book, the same genre and form as a college classroom textbook. That price is actually not out of line with such books. Its production values are beautiful: good paper, nice cover and binding. I agree it's a lot to pay. It took me several weeks of consideration to do so.

Dan wrote: "The chapters are ... written in formal Academese...."

Yikes! That sounds scary!

I stumbled upon another book with the title Partners in Wonder by Harlan Ellison and co-authors. Totally unrelated, except for the title. This one collects stories that Ellison wrote with collaborators. Could be fun.

Ed wrote: "I stumbled upon another book with the title Partners in Wonder by Harlan Ellison and co-authors. Totally unrelated, except for the title. This one collects stories that..."

It is a great collection. I think the Jack the Ripper stories he wrote with Bloch were the most memorable for me, but they're almost all fantastic. I highly recommend it.