SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I'm with you, Phil!

Well, right now I’m pretty content with both my income level and the type of work I do, so I don’t want to play this game anymore. ;) It would be a tough decision, but I’d probably go with the job I love.

I can definitely cross off the “5 times the median in an industry I despise” option. Self-respect is important. Between the other two options, I’ve experienced close to that income range over the years, probably less than half when I first moved into my own place, steadily increasing over the years as I’ve gained experience, skills, and reputation.

I translate "can barely tolerate" as a job that you dislike. You can grin and bear it long enough to get to the end of the day, but it isn't pleasant. I’ve been reasonably happy at my various jobs, but there have been some comparatively short periods where I was unhappy in my job. A job you dislike has an impact beyond the mythical 40-hour work week. It increases your stress levels and it decreases your energy. There’s a big difference in how you feel when you come home after 8+ hours doing something you enjoy versus 8+ hours doing something you dislike. There’s also a difference in how you feel during your down time, especially near the end of a weekend or a vacation when you have the immediate threat of returning to work hanging over your head. I’ve known some people who make their unpleasant job a constant topic of conversation during their off hours, extending the unpleasantness both for themselves and for the people around them. Aside from the impact to your off hours, 40 unhappy hours feels a lot longer than 73 happy hours no matter what the math says.

When I had a very low income with little spare money left over after paying bills, I was never unhappy. There are a lot of fun things you can do that are free or low-cost, at least in the areas I’ve lived. I made extensive use of my public library system. I would take hikes on local trails or go rollerblading, sometimes alone and sometimes with friends. I downloaded free/shareware computer games. In my case, it probably helped that I’m somewhat anti-social because going out to eat or drink with friends is not remotely appealing to me and that can eat up a lot of money. Many of the things I enjoy doing conveniently tend not to be high-cost. My biggest frustration at that stage in my life was the noisy neighbors in my low-rent apartment. I lived very cheaply so I was able to save enough money that, when I really wanted to do something, I could usually afford it.

On the other hand, it would be difficult to go back to that income level now that I’ve gotten used to a higher one. I still live pretty cheaply in comparison with my peers, but I spend money more freely than I did back then. I also value my time much more than money now, so I would miss being able to pay for conveniences that save me time. For example, I pay an extra $5 a week to order my groceries online (using Kroger’s ClickList thing) and then the store collects and bags my groceries for me and deposits then in my car when I show up in the parking lot. My 43-year-old self thinks that’s a brilliant way to spend a little extra money, but my 20-year-old self would have thought I was crazy.

In the end though, I think I would find it easier to go back to living cheaply than to go back to having a job I was unhappy with.

YouKneeK wrote: "In the end though, I think I would find it easier to go back to living cheaply than to go back to having a job I was unhappy with."

Fair enough, but I feel some of your points fall more in line with option three. Barely tolerable = dislike is true, but I'm not sure if dislike = anxious on weekends and dread. I dislike cooked carrots, but I only think of them when they're placed in my mouth. Normally, I'm indifferent to their existence. Plus, don't forget that option three (true misery at work) could be taken from the perspective of the greater good. Your family will want for naught, but still be able to see you. If you have personal organizations you believe in, you have disposable income to donate. From that viewpoint, 40 hours per week (plus the dread of going back) may be worth it to build a better environment for others. There are no right answers in these silly games.

Phillip wrote: "Barely tolerable = dislike is true, but I'm not sure if dislike = anxious on weekends and dread. I dislike cooked carrots, but I only think of them when they're placed in my mouth. Normally, I'm indifferent to their existence. Plus, don't forget that option three (true misery at work) could be taken from the perspective of the greater good."

I may be looking at it on a different scale from how you intended it because what you describe in this post isn’t at all how I interpreted the initial post.

To my mind:
Option 3 (“an industry you despise”) translates to working in an industry that supplies products or services that I find despicable. I would spend 40 hours a week helping a company I found morally repugnant accomplish its goals, selling my soul to make 5 times the median income. By that definition, this option is out of the question.

Option 2 (“doing something you can barely tolerate”) translates to a job I very much dislike, but I won’t hate myself for choosing to work there. Maybe I have a high tolerance for unpleasant things, but something I can “barely tolerate” would be far worse than occasionally having to eat a food I disliked. Or, if I had to make a food analogy, it would be the equivalent of being forced at a certain time each day to eat large quantities of something I’m moderately allergic to and/or something that makes me puke. I could tolerate it, but I would dread that time of day and the resulting allergic reaction or nausea would affect my ability to enjoy my time after it was over.

Still, regardless of the severity, I think for me it comes down to the fact that most of my sources of entertainment aren’t that expensive and I haven’t had trouble filling my spare time since I was like five, at which point in my life I had very little disposable income. Option 1 would translate to more hours of potential fun (work + free time) than Option 2 (free time only).

I don’t have or intend to have any children, so I don’t have to worry about the impact of my choices on them. If I did, I’d have to run the numbers. I’d choose whichever option would ensure I could supply the basic necessities. I wouldn’t take a great job at the cost of letting my children starve, but I wouldn’t necessarily take an unpleasant job just so they could “want for naught”. Growing up in a household with limited income teaches important life skills that may be more valuable in the long run than many other things money can buy.

I've had jobs I barely tolerate at less than the median income, so I know I can weather it, ha! Like, "take a walk so I don't hit anyone, go cry in the bathroom" barely tolerate. I stayed at that job for 7 years! I adapt, and my ability to live a life I like outside of work is important to me. The constant anxiety of trying to make things work on little money would be harder for me to let go of than a crappy boss and a boring/annoying day job. I guess if my spouse had a job that paid well and I was offered my dream job for a small paycheck, I'd consider it, but if my income is THE income, can't do it.

I couldn't do option 3. I'd need to have a really unfortunate situation to consider it. I actually had more or less this option and decided that I like my joy in a job well done to be untainted by self-loathing.

I already earn way less than most people doing something I love. I’m a freelance singer and teacher of singing, but I’m not famous, so I would have to eek out a living with teaching a lot and trying to perform as often as possible. As it turns out, I mooch off my husband, who earns a very good living and is able to support me and our son. We have moved from country to country 4 times in the past 12 years, which means I’ve had to start from scratch as many times. It’s a choice I made, but I might have been able to make more of a name for myself had I not followed my husband all over creation. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t trade my work for anything.

Definitely not 3.

My heart wants to say 1, because I'd really like to have a job I loved, but...

But.

There's no way I could comfortably live with that low of a salary. I'm spoiled, I suppose, but I'm used to having some money for luxuries and doing other things I enjoy, like traveling, and it's hard to find the money now, and would be nigh impossible with that little income.

So option 2.

YouKneeK wrote: "Option 3 (“an industry you despise”) translates to working in an industry that supplies products or services that I find despicable. I would spend 40 hours a week helping a company I found morally repugnant accomplish its goals, selling my soul to make 5 times the median income. By that definition, this option is out of the question."

To clarify, it was just a way of saying you really hate the actions of this job, versus (option 2) disliking/finding tedious, and (option 1) enjoying.

First option, no question; I've always lived well below my means so if my means were less I'd still be ok.

Would you rather be able to speak (or sign) every language known to humankind or be able to operate any machine you come across?

hm ... being my unsociable self in different languages doesn't sound too helpful. I'd go for operating machines (and if one of those is an universal translator I'm fine anyway)

I'm not very social either, but I'd pick languages because then I can find someone to operate the machines, and be able to communicate other ideas, too.

I would speak every language. I work internationally, and it would be soooo much easier if I could work in all of the languages I deal with directly instead of all of us trying to make English or one of our other shared languages the primary. I also am frustrated at some of the book translations I have access to and would want to read the original in everything I like!

I'm very bad at machines. They all seem to break around me, so even being able to operate them doesn't seem long-term as helpful.

Cheryl wrote: "I'm not very social either, but I'd pick languages because then I can find someone to operate the machines, and be able to communicate other ideas, too."

That's a good idea.

ah, Allison would fit right into Adrian Tchaikovsky's world of the Apt/Inapt and would fit fitrmly into the Inapt category :)

However, I too would go with the languages. I speak one fluently, can manage in a second (French) and understand a small or read a bit of a few others (Spanish, Portuguese, German and Russian), but I struggle

I'd go with knowing every language as well, I'd get another million stories I can read and would be able (with a bit of training) to translate them so my friends and other people could discover them as well. My native language is Spanish and it's frustrating when I read books in English that haven't been translated yet and I can't share with those that may like them because they don't have English as a second language.

Languages! <3

lol Chessie! I have to read that now, so I know what world encompasses my poor machine curse!

Nanu, I am filled with glee at the idea that you'd use your knowledge to give us more translations!!

Anna, think what sorts of madness might be waiting for us in the YA/MG of other languages, given the lunacy we've already found in our own!

Languages, easily. I've yet to find any need for further machinery wizardry, but languages you run into daily and understanding more of them would widen one's perspectives exponentially. I'm thinking mostly of reading/writing, since...

...I might also be ruining my one saving grace on public transport: the fact that not understanding all the babble around doesn't disturb your concentration nearly as much as if you were hearing the actual convos... buuut that's a small price. I hope.

Definitely languages. I could read books in their original language and not have to rely on translations, and it would make international travel so much easier.

Languages, no question. I love people-watching and traveling to new places when I can, so it would be incredibly helpful to understand and be able to communicate with literally anyone I came across. Not to mention being able to read any book, or anything on the internet!

Machines and I get along all right, but I don't feel knowing them all would be all that helpful.

Jemppu wrote: "...I might also be ruining my one saving grace on public transport: the fact that not understanding all the babble around doesn't disturb your concentration nearly as much as if you were hearing the actual convos... buuut that's a small price. I hope."

I found I could easily tune out French even though I was functional in it, but when i moved back to the US, it was a rude shock to walk around and hear all these snippets of conversation. Maybe it's also that Americans also tend to talk a lot louder...

a question in the future could be based on those books: Would you rather

Have magic and be totally unable to operate any mechanical device including door latches, cars, computers, etc
or
Have the ability to work mechanical devices and have no magic

Ohh, good one!! Maaaggiiiiiiic

I mean, not really, I'd freak out without my phone. But I'm still watching out for my acceptance to Hogwarts Adults' Program, so I can't resist. Give me magic!

Magic!!! I’ll prance around speaking in tongues and blasting spells at everything/-one.

(CBR, now you’ve made me want to read that series!)

it's what made me willing to read that spider book (Children of Time)

Allison wrote: "Would you rather be able to speak (or sign) every language known to humankind or be able to operate any machine you come across?"

I’m assuming whichever I choose will not cause me to lose any existing skills. If it would, I'd go with machines because my livelihood depends on my ability to operate computers and being able to operate a car is also important where I live.

If I can keep my current skills, I’d definitely choose the language abilities. Learning to operate machines is usually easy, but language skills are much more difficult to come by. As others have mentioned, I would love to be able to read translated books in their original language, and it would be useful for traveling both for fun and for business. I could also spy on all the conversations people have around me at work in languages I can’t understand. :) Although like Jemppu mentioned, conversations I can’t understand are easier to tune out so there are advantages to that.

Definitely languages. I love to travel, but I have anxiety about traveling out of the country because of language barriers. I need to feel in control at all times and being surrounded by folks I can't ask for help is terrifying to me, so I generally stick to domestic travel. With a good grasp of all languages I would feel so much more comfortable!

On the flip side, for CBR's question, I think it would depend on the world as we know it. Has this always been an option for people so that the world has evolved to accommodate magic and machine users? Or is it our world and we suddenly have a choice? And how hard is the magic to learn? That one's a lot tougher for me.

I would definitely choose languages. I think I could get along without machines, but not without the joy that is another language’s turn of phrase or communication with someone from another culture.

Kristin B. wrote: "Has this always been an option for people so that the world has evolved to accommodate magic and machine users? Or is it our world and we suddenly have a choice? And how hard is the magic to learn? That one's a lot tougher for me. "

it's not our world, it's a fantasy world but if the question was posed in this thread, it could be anywhere. The magic would be inherent to the person

The series is set in a hypothetical universe populated by different "kinden". Each kinden is a fictional race of humans, named after (and having certain characteristics of) an insect. Kinden are typically divided into two categories: "Apt" and "Inapt". The Apt do not have magical abilities, but are able to understand, use and design mechanical devices. The Inapt have varying amounts of magical abilities, but cannot use mechanical devices, even those as simple as latches. The series focuses on the attempted conquest of the Lowlands by the Wasp-kinden empire.

the magic in the case of these books is fading and a bit hidden

I would take magic and marry a non-magic person and we'd figure it out. ;)

Would you rather be immortal but shunned by your fellow immortals (an elf living with humans, perhaps)?

or

The non-powered "mascot" friend to a team of superheroes (e.g. Justice League, but you're Jimmy Olsen).

Oh, I'll go with the Jimmy Olsen spot, since it would mean having interesting friends!

Mascot

Um, neither?

Phillip wrote: "Would you rather be immortal but shunned by your fellow immortals (an elf living with humans, perhaps)?"

Immortal. This doesn’t preclude gaining the respect of mortals, and I don’t see any reason I’d need to be buddies with my fellow immortals.

Neither. Immortality would take away almost anything worthwhile in humanity. I think our ability to love others is only possible because we are mortal. And I wouldn't want to be a mascot or really associate much with a group of immortals.

Would you rather stay the size you want no matter what or always feel rested/energized no matter how much sleep you got?

The second option sounds quite appealing indeed... but I've grown so used to 'exhaustion' to lull me to sleep knock me out (instead of a set 'bedtime'), that it sounds rather lethal to trick the body into thinking it's well rested when it's not 🤔 (Assuming it'd be only a false sense of rested, not actual rest body requires).

Rested and energised. I always feel tired.

Sarah wrote: "Rested and energised. I always feel tired."

+1. It's wonderful to imagine sleep actually being effective.

sleeeep!

Defo sleep...

What is this thing you call sleep? And there's no such thing as energy; it's a myth.

Allison wrote: "Would you rather stay the size you want no matter what or always feel rested/energized no matter how much sleep you got?"

I’ll have to go with the crowd and vote for option #2. Having sufficient energy makes a huge difference in how you feel and what you can accomplish. I’d vote for that even if it didn’t come with the “no matter how much sleep you got” bonus, which would add extra useful hours to my day.

You’ve heard the parable about the couple who complained that their house was too small, and the person they went to for advice had them slowly introduce various farm animals into their house until it was so cramped the couple couldn’t even move around? Then when they could take it no more, the advisor had them remove all the animals and suddenly their same small house felt like a palace?

I discovered a few months ago that the secret to gaining lots of energy is similar to that. :p Let your iron levels get really, really low because you’re too lazy to get annual physical exams and the symptoms come on so slowly over the course of years that you don’t know anything is wrong. Ignore how exhausting physical tasks are and how easily you get tired and just push through to get things done. After all, nobody feels like they have much energy, right? It’s normal, just look at the above posts. You just need to get more exercise, never mind that exercise is excruciatingly difficult, that’s just because you aren’t getting enough exercise! Finally, when the symptoms get so bad that you finally go to the doctor and she tells you that your iron levels are so low you need a blood transfusion if you can’t get them up ASAP, then immediately start popping iron pills -- as prescribed, of course. Within a couple months you’ll have a normal person’s energy and it will feel like such an awesome and amazing amount of energy that you’ll practically be running around in circles like a puppy. The downside is that you may get less reading done because it's hard to read while running around in circles.

Yeah, so anyway, I have a great appreciate for energy right now. :)

Omg if give anything yo wake up with energy. Well ok not my kids. Even though they are energy suckers.

wow! I'm glad that you're feeling better now, youkneek! and Rachel, you'll probably have a similar response once they're grown! you'll feel like you have so much energy again!

Would you rather be able to see ghosts, but not be able to interact with them (as in, they couldn't see or feel you)

or

be able to interact with them, but not be able to see them?

Be able to interact with them, but not see them.

Easy! I mean.... who would WANT to SEE ghosts? ugh... and it would probably be gruesome.