The Sword and Laser discussion

Jack wrote: "Interesting. I just got to the part where Deoch and Kvothe are talking about Denna. It seems strange to me that nobody can describe her or really tell how old she is. Deoch seems to think she hasn'..."

I'm not sure if that means anything or its just Pat Rothfuss's writing style. None of the character really get described. Like Fela she's described as beautiful, busty, and I think maybe with a Spanish look? Or Ambrose he might be blond, but beyond that I can't think of any other characteristics.

Alexander wrote: "Or Ambrose he might be blond, but beyond that I can't think of any other characteristics. "

Ambrose's Characteristics list include: Pompous Ass, Complete Douche Bag, and Whiny Jackass. We all know one when we see one...

:)

Micah wrote: "Alexander wrote: "Or Ambrose he might be blond, but beyond that I can't think of any other characteristics. "

Ambrose's Characteristics list include: Pompous Ass, Complete Douche Bag, and Whiny Ja..."

so your saying he looks like jedward?

Alexander wrote: "so your saying he looks like jedward?"


LoL. I had never heard of them before you posted that.

Now I'm not saying he looks like that, but I do think that each and every one of us knows deep down what that character looks like. Even if each and every one of us has a vastly different concept in mind we can all picture Ambrose walking around in the world and collectively shudder from his complete Asshattery. :)

Finding pictures of what we think he looks like could be a very fun game. I may start a thread to that effect.

Alexander wrote: "...the hunt for the dragon chicken felt completely out of place like it had been lifted from some other novel."

Interesting. I had the same sense about this section. Each reread has strengthened this feeling. It's not bad, but it fails to maintain the flow of continuity, or at least that's how it feels. Granted, it does further illustrate the tendencies to embellish truth in order to create legend, which reinforces the satirical commentary on fantasy as genre. It's almost like Rothfuss is intentionally pulling back the curtain while winking at the audience.

I thought Ambrose looked like Jim Butcher ^_^

I have those cards...I won't play with them for fear of bending them but they are beautiful

Haha. I have 2 decks (regular and collectors) I haven't opened either. I have a magnet of Ambrose, Auri (Felicia Day) and Kvothe on my fridge though.

I had forgotten the Auri print was modeled on Felicia Day.

I've started my reread of the wiseman's fear... And it mentions a couple of time that Ambrose is moving up the ladder getting closer to king.

So does anyone think he's enough of a bastard to kill his own farther to become king in book 3?

I see him poisoning a royal feast.

Funny how Ambrose in no way looks like Bast...

I didn't even know about these cards? Felicia Day as Auri would have been great!

Sadly I probably won't be re-reading Wise Man's Fear at least until book 3 is officially announced. :(

Jack wrote: "I see him poisoning a royal feast.

Funny how Ambrose in no way looks like Bast...

I didn't even know about these cards? Felicia Day as Auri would have been great!

Sadly I probably won't be re-re..."

They were a kick starter package from albino dragon. That company has also done a bunch or other cool projects like this too. You may still be able to get them from their store as awhile back I got an update e-mail saying they were trying to sell their over ordered inventory

Cool! Thanks for the info. I'll definitely check it and anything else cool they might have out.

So back to the book, I'm almost done. Only about twenty pages to go. It doesn't feel like I finished an epic fantasy book, but instead it feels like I just watched the season finale of a TV show and am now watching the wrap up scenes at the end.

First off- great thread Jack. It seems to be a heckuva love fest for NoTW. Rothfuss is one of my favorite authors- like Neal Stephenson, John Grisham, John Scalzi, and G.R.R. Martin in the sense that I like to spend time with the characters they write, and I love the humor they throw in, some more than others.

I can't recall which book it happened in, but my favorite scene was (view spoiler)[when Elodin and Kvothe were on the roof and Kvothe stepped off to a nasty fall. It was a total subversion of my expectations and hilarious to boot. That scene also did a lot to inform both the characters. Elodin is not as loony as I thought and has a great sense of humor, and Kvothe can be quick to place his faith in someone he thinks is worthy of it. (hide spoiler)]

I re-read NoTW and TWMF in audio last December and am looking forward to the 3rd day. There was plenty of talk that Day 2 was over 40 hours. As far as I'm concerned, Rothfuss can stretch a 24 hour day into 50 and give me even more time in his world.

As for the conclusion of the trilogy, I have no great expectations. I've enjoyed it so much that an amazing end isn't necessary for me to appreciate it. I like to think of stories akin to people. They won't be perfect, and not all have a glamorous or particularly satisfying end, but that doesn't have to devalue the journey taken.

I'm about 3/4 of the way through TWMF and I had forgotten how uneven and disjointed the second half of the book is. I'm about as bored of reading about their dull uneventful time in the woods as the characters are.

But one thing I have noticed in my second read is how many allusions and heavy handed allegorical references there are to Denna being at the centre of all Kvothe's future problems and that she is the one who is responsible for his inevitable downfall.

There is even a bit where she makes him swear an oath to give up his name, power, and right hand if he tries to uncover the identity of her patron.

Also does anyone else find that the adventure sections don't really fit well with the rest of the novels? I find myself uninterested in his dragon hunting, and bandit hunting, and then warrior training.

Would the story be better off without them? Would it be better if he didn't become a warrior and instead Kvothe stuck to getting his power from cunning, names, and song?

Philip wrote: "As for the conclusion of the trilogy, I have no great expectations. I've enjoyed it so much that an amazing end isn't necessary for me to appreciate it."

I feel the same. I trust Rothfuss enough to know that the ending is going to be completely different than what I expect but it will be satisfying.

I'm definitely going to have to re-read WMF soon. I remember feeling the same way as you, Alexander, but my first time through NOTW was a *much, much, much* different experience than this time through.

I think I'm the only one who liked WMF more than NotW.

Rob wrote: "I think I'm the only one who liked WMF more than NotW."

Having just reread them both, I think I like WMF better, too. Stuff gets resolved. I like things getting steadily resolved.

I liked how he was somewhere else than the university.

That's a good point about the resolution though.

I found Felurian dull, except for his encounter with the Cthaeh. However, I really enjoyed Kvothe's time in Haert. I thought the cultural differences were interesting and often very funny.

The first half of WMF is good and I.like better then NotW. Its just everything after the big fight with denna that I could do without.

Rob wrote: "I think I'm the only one who liked WMF more than NotW."

Yes you are. Felurian is a stain on an otherwise good book. The whole thing, taken with the martial arts piece, was a bit too much adolescent wish fulfillment. It's a good book, but not as good as NotW.

Alexander wrote: "-Denna Dying..."

It is just as likely he is betrayed by her. "I trooped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted and was betrayed." What betrayal would hurt more than her's? There is something going on with her and the Chandrian. It could be through Mr. Ash, but I am not entirely convinced Mr. Ash exists.

The Felurian thing didn't bother me. I think largely because everyone seemed so upset by it that I thought it was going to be much worse.

Nathan wrote: "Rob wrote: "I think I'm the only one who liked WMF more than NotW."

Yes you are. Felurian is a stain on an otherwise good book. The whole thing, taken with the martial arts piece, was a bit too mu..."

No, he's not.

Alexander wrote: "Also does anyone else find that the adventure sections don't really fit well with the rest of the novels? I find myself uninterested in his dragon hunting, and bandit hunting, and then warrior trai..."

I love the adventures. Instead of a uniform story we get several types of story in one. The hunt fro the dragon-chicken did not throw me off at all.

I think what might bother people is the fact that it interrupts a fabulous novel, The novel of Kvothe at the University, with a different kind of story. But that's this entire series. Kote the Innkeeper interrupted to tell a story. Kvothe's life is a series of stories. Kvothe even tells stories within the story of his own life. (It may be in WMF but he tells a story to Simmon and Willem)

Anyway it's not wrong to be bothered by it but I don't find it to be a fundamental fault. It's a way of telling stories, and I for one truly enjoy it.

After listening over the course of a 40 hour total road trip, what I'm realizing now is not so much a plot thing, but I had a weird writing eureka moment. this is Dickens + wizards. Everything from the narrator telling his life story, to the poor orphan boy pulling unselfish up by his bootstraps, to the large number of incidental and quirky side characters, to the crazy random happenstance discovery of relatives (if speculation in this thread is to be believed, at least), to the constant humor, to the love interest (who is *crazy* similar to Stella), to the serialized nature of the stories, where one chapter is about playin the lute, the next about killing a dragon-chicken, etc. It feels like this is all deliberate. I wonder if that's why it feels so refreshing to read-- even a lot of the more inventive plots and settings in fantasy turn back to the same old structures, but no fantasy author sits down and goes, "hmmm I think I should right great expectations while deconstructing the drizzt-hero of fantasy novels."

The other big writing thing has already been mentioned in this thread-- the first time I read through, I didn't pick up on any foreshadowing, but now that I'm looking for it stuff with denna and kvothe's mother especially are screaming at me constantly. It's subtle, never getting in the way of the story, until you go to look for it, and then it's explicitly all there. It's dang masterful, is what it is.

That's an interesting observation, Rob. I can definitely see the parallels to Dickens. Both books feel somewhat episodic and I can see elements of David Copperfield and Oliver Twist, as well as Great Expectations.

Rob wrote: "After listening over the course of a 40 hour total road trip, what I'm realizing now is not so much a plot thing, but I had a weird writing eureka moment. this is Dickens + wizards. Everything from..."

I think a case could be made for the Dickens comparison. I doubt if Pat was intentionally mirroring/channeling Dickens, but who knows.

I noticed a similarity to Stephen King's Roland Deschain.

Kvothe & Roland:

* Both loved a woman they could never have.
* Both feel responsible for the loss of close friends.
* Both are using a road/journey narrative.
* Both employ the story within story device.
* We see both Roland and Kvothe first as older character, but then are introduced to their younger selves, thus providing the reader time to bond.

Could keep going, but don't have the time.

Personally, I enjoyed both notw and wmf equally but for different reasons. In note I enjoyed watching kvothe grow and get stronger and learn a lot. In wmf I enjoyed his adventure away from the university and all of the mistakes he makes... because he learns too much too fast and it's so young.

In my re-read of wmf though 2 things stuck out for me that I didn't pick up my first go around: while in the fea world talking to the k'they (spelling audio book) it mentions turning him loose on the chandrian. After what Bast days about the k'they changing the future... It's worth reading over again.

Second thing tired into notw but only stuck out after his bar fight with the soldiers. I don't think he's lost his powers, skill, knowledge. I think he chooses to not use any of them. And this is just my opinion, but I think it's because he kills denna during the war, and the war is caused my something he learns. So he feels responsible for it all, and to prevent further "folly" he refuses to be his old self.

And from pure speculation, I have the feeling that bast and kvothe are related... possibly farther/son with filliorian (spelling) connected to the tie in.

I really can't wait for the next book to come out!

I've noticed that a few feel Kvothe chooses not to use his abilities/powers. But no matter how many times I reread these wonderful books, I always get the impression that he can't. Obviously he retains a memory of who he was, but appears to be locked out of that skillset. Let's not overlook the name difference from boy to barkeep. It's as if someone has renamed him, and in the process, scattered his talents/abilities. We should remember what he was like the first time he called/named the wind. He was lost, within himself...

Now what I'm curious to learn is whether it was done to him, or if he did it to himself.

Maybe Denna steals part of his name under orders of her patron like the story of Iax in WMF who stole the moon before locked beyond the stone door.

Ya, I don't think he chooses not use his abilities its that he can't. He tries several times and is unable to get his ability to work. He can't do sympathy any more and he can't open his trice locked chest no matter how hard he tries.

Just suggesting that this passage from Chapter one may have something to do with that:

... his eyes fell on the chest at the foot of the bed.

It was made of roah, a rare, heavy wood, dark as coal and smooth as polished glass. Prized by perfumers and alchemists, a piece the size if your thumb was easily worth gold. To have a chest of it went far beyond extravagance.

The chest was sealed three times. It had a lock of iron, a lock of copper, and a lock that could not be seen.

Then read The Wise Man's Fear, chapters 72 and 151, and I'd think you may have a point. I've only half jokingly suggested that the chest contains a "V" and an "H". I've got some less metaphorical thoughts too, (view spoiler)[ like a lute (which I spoiler protect only because in WMF he calls it his "tangible soul") (hide spoiler)].

Cappy wrote: "And from pure speculation, I have the feeling that bast and kvothe are related... possibly farther/son with filliorian (spelling) connected to the tie in"

One interesting thing I noticed in the last chapter is that Bast's eyes change color, just like Kvothe's. When he is threatening Chronicler his eyes become lighter as he gets angrier. It is described in several places in the book that Kvothe's eyes become a dark green when he is angry.

I am sure this is not a coincidence. However, the eye color thing may be something all Fae share. In that case Kvothe may have Fae blood but not be related to Bast.

I found it strange how Kvothe has already introduced Denna in the story before he arrives at the university; yet, when their paths cross again around 20 chapters later, the way how he's at a loss trying to describe her is as if we're meeting this character for the first time.

Did anyone else find this particularly odd?

Rob wrote: "I think I'm the only one who liked WMF more than NotW."

No, you're definitely not alone there.

@paolo something else to consider is that he introduces like four major female characters one after the other around that point-- we all assume denna is super important, but it might still be one of the others that is The Big Deal.

Alternatively, there's the deal with the whole "haven't been denna in a long time" bit. She's likely been to Fey, and at some point changed her name multiple times. Resulting in a person who's as brand new a character as Kote is

I am also re-reading for the third time and I still do not care about any of the speculation. I am perfectly fine waiting for Rothfuss to explain all, especially the 'Betrayal ' part, as I want it to be of a certain color, namely the "Forced " or by " Accident" type than the "Knowingly" type. I really liked the drug addicted beast, it reminded me of a Far Side cartoon from my youth. I original brought Name of the Wind only because Play Book had a sale on the title. I like it so much I paid full price for Wise Man's Fear the second I was done with NOTW. And now I sit & wait for another slow-ass writer. Thank God for Scott Lynch who released his first novel the same time as Patrick and yet has not only finished book 3 but has announced book 4 is on its way in the near future.

LOL I was initially under the impression that Kvothe was the one who started the fire in the Fishery. Sure seemed that way as I was reading how it unfolded since he was the last one who touched the cannister :p

I think that Kvothe has "renamed" himself as "Kote" as a shield against enemies trying to track him down. It's not that he doesn't want to use his powers, "Kote" doesn't have them, that's part of the renaming

Fresno Bob wrote: "I think that Kvothe has "renamed" himself as "Kote" as a shield against enemies trying to track him down. It's not that he doesn't want to use his powers, "Kote" doesn't have them, that's part of ..."

This theory is popular, but a red herring, I think. Says in the books that even a short while ago, he would have made short work of _____, or words to that effect. His skills have atrophied, not altered. I think had he renamed himself, he would actually be Kote, and not remember Kvothe at all.

I don't think his skills atrophied so much that he was crippled in some way, the question of course is did he do it to himself or not?

I agree that I don't think he renamed himself either, but there is a lot that is hidden for a final book reveal.

Skip wrote: "I don't think his skills atrophied so much that he was crippled in some way, the question of course is did he do it to himself or not?

I agree that I don't think he renamed himself either, but the..."

Well there's that too. Something definitely happened to his hands, no lute in sight, can't do break lion etc. But that wouldn't affect his ability to do sympathy.

I meant crippled a bit more metaphorically, in that his overall abilities are damaged in some way, not just that he had physical issues.

"Moi name es Skoivan Schiemmelpfenneg."

HAHAHAHAHA! omg I lost it right there :)) Best minor character ever. This chapter is awesome.