Support for Indie Authors discussion

I am getting ready to self publish my second book. I have heard about IngramSpark and CreateSpace. Can I get opinions on the differences between the two?

I use CreateSpace, and since I use my own ISBN, there comes a notification that I cannot use their extended distribution. I don't understand that part. And yet I have received emails from a couple of people who have ordered my books through B&N. Anyone know what that's all about?

I use Createspace for Amazon, and Ingram Spark for the other retailers. I think Ingram probably has the best quality print, especially lately, since I've had a few Createspace books come out with quality control issues. Createspace is an Amazon related company. That means the royalties from CS are best with Amazon sales but decrease for sales on other channels like Barnes and Noble.

I think Createspace might be a little more user friendly when setting up a title. However they've given me grief over a few things that Ingram never has. For instance, I had a book published under a certain title for months, then uploaded a revised INTERIOR file. CS wouldn't republish it with the same TITLE because they said it did not appear that way on the book cover or front matter. They've also refused to publish if the ISBN doesn't show in the front matter. I've had emails from them requiring me to send a statement that I am the copyright holder before the book is approved for publishing. Now that I'm typing all this out, I'm thinking Ingram is the winner ha.

Also here is a coupon code for Ingram from their website:

"Promotion: In celebration of IngramSpark’s 5th anniversary, use promo code SPARK5 for FREE title setup on print or ebooks until July 31, 2018! "

I've used both. Createspace is easy for working the bugs out of the setup of your book and using the proofs to edit from, but CS often wants me to charge a higher price for the book than Ingram requires. I always upload my own professionally-created cover design and use my own ISBNs. The profit potential and distribution is better with Ingram. I find the quality of the finished product very similar.

The title setup fee on IngramSpark is per book. And if you need to change what you uploaded, there may be additional fees. However, IngramSpark often runs special promotions for free setup—like Marie mentioned above. And, if you're a member of the Independent Book Publishers Association (IBPA ), there is an IngramSpark code in their membership benefits handbook that allows you to setup and make changes to your books for free.

Thank you for all the information. This is useful. I will also have to look up IBPA.

I only used CS for my first book and got it into Kindle Unlimited. It was a book of short stories and was great practice. It allows me to put the price to -0- for 5 days a quarter, which is nice for promotions. However, if I wanted to try and advertise it as a featured book on BookBub (can't because it is too short for that), it would be less likely to be chosen since it is only available on Amazon. I've heard they like books to be available on multiple sites.

For my novel, published a few months ago, I bought my own ISBNs and did it through CS and Ingram Spark. CS was easier to use but I won't be able to price it at -0- because I am not in the Kindle Unlimited program (at least I think that's the case).

The print version of my first novel _Desert Jade_was published on CreateSpace, and Ingram Spark both. I used Bookow.com to get my manuscript formatted (and also Bookow converted the mss. into a mobi for Kindle and epub for other devices). Both Create Space and Ingram Spark accepted my interior pages formatted by Bookow with no problem.
Keep in mind that Create Space is owned by Amazon and Amazon is a book vendor/retailer. Ingram Spark is owned by Ingram and Ingram is the world's biggest book distributor. That means it distributes books to book stores and libraries all over the world. Ingram has a website, iPage, where those with accounts (like a library) can order Ingram Spark books. But it's not like Amazon.com where the general public can order one book.
On Ingram Spark, you pay to upload although they often have free promotions to upload. Then you pay $80 to be in the Ingram catalog. My local library and several other libraries as well as bookstores ordered my book through Ingram iPage which gives discounts to libraries and bookstores. Individuals buy the book through Amazon. Amazon doesn't sell to libraries and bookstores - unless an individual librarian or bookstore owner orders a copy.
You have an option to print a hardcover book through Ingram Spark but not through Create space. Many people think that IngramSpark's print books are better put together than Create Space. I've also read that if you have color photos or other illustrations in your book, you'll be able to get copies for yourself to resell at a lower price than from Create Space. Here's an example of this. Create Space charged the author about $4 for a b/w paperback but charged nearly double that for a paperback with color in it. Ingram Spark charged a little more than $ 4 (about $4.25) but the color version was less than a dollar more.

C.J. wrote: "The print version of my first novel _Desert Jade_was published on CreateSpace, and Ingram Spark both. I used Bookow.com to get my manuscript formatted (and also Bookow converted the mss. into a mob..."

Thanks you for your detail explanation C.J. This quite helpful for me. I have pub my two books with CS but I have never branched out. I'll look into Ingram Spark.

Thank you for the detailed information on CJ and Ingram. I have been getting a lot of good advice from so many different areas.

I ordered copies of my novel from both CS and Ingram, just to be sure of the quality. CS's was fine, but the printing of the Ingram copy was poor - like the printer was running out of ink at times. I ordered a copy from Barnes & Noble, though, and it was fine.

Eileen wrote: ...the printing of the Ingram copy was poor I'm a big believer in giving feedback so I strongly recommend you send your book back to Ingram with a complaint. I had a similar experience with Create Space with a nonfiction book I wrote. The proof looked great. I ordered 20 copies and with the 20, the cover was terrible. The color was distorted and text lines were blurry. So I complained. CreateSpace told me to send the 20 copies back and they sent me 20 new ones...but from a different printer. I guess the first one lost the account! With my novel, I ordered copies both from CreateSpace and Ingram Spark. I thought the color with Ingram Spark was much better and more true to the jpg I sent them originally. I think any company can have problems, sometime temporary and sometime all the time. Again, we must give them feedback to let them know when they screw up. After all, we are their customers and we are paying for their services.

Wanjiru wrote: Thanks you for your detail explanation C.J. This quite helpful for me. I feel the same way. We can all help each out by sharing information.

Sylvia wrote: "Thank you for the detailed information on CJ and Ingram. I have been getting a lot of good advice from so many different areas."

Eileen wrote: "I ordered copies of my novel from both CS and Ingram, just to be sure of the quality. CS's was fine, but the printing of the Ingram copy was poor - like the printer was running out of ink at times...."

Sylvia wrote: "Thank you for the detailed information on CJ and Ingram. I have been getting a lot of good advice from so many different areas."


I also got some pages on IngramSpark that looked as if printer was running out of ink. I have queried them twice by email with photos of the faulty pages and twice by phone (They said that call back time was ~48-72 hrs!). Other than a nice young man on the help line who referred me to the complaint Dept, I have had no replies in 2 weeks.

Very useful information. Thanks everyone.

I had the same problem. I received a hardback proof book from Ingram that had different intensities in the ink and the entire manuscript misprinted. All the text had shifted down. This was a paper feed problem. I took pictures, filed a claim and received a credit. But it cost me time in getting another proof book to check the formatting. The second issue happened when I order ten hardbacks. When they arrived seven were damaged. It looked like some had taken a hammer to the top of the spine and the inside page that is glued to the cover had separated. I took pictures, filed a complaint, and am still waiting on my replacement books. Not sure what is happening as past books have always been excellent.

Marie Silk wrote: "I use Createspace for Amazon, and Ingram Spark for the other retailers. I think Ingram probably has the best quality print, especially lately, since I've had a few Createspace books come out with q..."

Thanks so much for the information. I should receive my final PDF file for my paperback this week. I was torn between CreateSpace and Ingram. Your insight was very useful.

C.J. wrote: "The print version of my first novel _Desert Jade_was published on CreateSpace, and Ingram Spark both. I used Bookow.com to get my manuscript formatted (and also Bookow converted the mss. into a mob..."

Thanks for the details. I have a better understanding of the differences between CreateSpace and Ingram.

Anita wrote: "I had the same problem. I received a hardback proof book from Ingram that had different intensities in the ink and the entire manuscript misprinted. All the text had shifted down. This was a paper ..."

Great information to know. I've learned the numerous things that can go wrong when writing/publishing a book all cost extra time beyond what I had already factored in.

Anita wrote: "I had the same problem. I received a hardback proof book from Ingram that had different intensities in the ink and the entire manuscript misprinted. All the text had shifted down. This was a paper ..."
How long did it take IngramSpark to respond, Anita? I have sent two email messages, posted a message on their Facebook site and called them twice - this is day 16 of this endeavor.

In the meantime, CreateSpace has shipped me 20 copies of my book within 24 hours of my request and also edited a minor problem with a title on the Amazon book page Also within 24 hours. Just saying....

I now have to think twice before I pub with IngramSpark. I order my books in bulk (for signings) from CreateSpace. Many times I take a while before I get to open a box. I suppose if I go with IS, I have to open the boxes straight away. I doubt I'll even order in bulk. damaged.

Wanjiru wrote: I now have to think twice... I had the opposite problem. My poorly printed books were from Create Space and the ones from Ingram Spark were great. I think opening the boxes immediately is the best thing to do no matter which POD service you choose.

I agree Wanjiru. I doubt that one is clearly better than the other - except for prompt response to authors' queries.

Mark wrote: "I agree Wanjiru. I doubt that one is clearly better than the other - except for prompt response to authors' queries."

I have 5 untouched boxes from CSP. I suppose opening boxes as soon as they arrive is one more thing to worry about. Oh, the tribulations of an indie author.

Mark wrote: Oh, the tribulations of an indie author
Amen to that!!

Mark wrote: "Anita wrote: "I had the same problem. I received a hardback proof book from Ingram that had different intensities in the ink and the entire manuscript misprinted. All the text had shifted down. Thi..."

I usually receive a callback in just a few hours. The first claim I asked for a credit and that took about three weeks before I received a notice of the credit. The second claim I asked for replacement books. Even with a rush on the claim it has still taken over three weeks to get the books. They arrived yesterday and I am filing another claim. They were damaged from the shipping. The box was too big and not enough support to keep the books from banging into each other. I filed another claim today.

I usually order books from Amazon because the shipping is cheaper and faster. Unfortunately, this is my hardback and I have to use Ingram.

I tried to set up an Ingram Spark account last week, but they required an ABN (Australian Business Number), which I don't have. CS is much friendlier for writers who don't have their own business.

Anita wrote: "Mark wrote: "Anita wrote: "I had the same problem. I received a hardback proof book from Ingram that had different intensities in the ink and the entire manuscript misprinted. All the text had shif..."

If you go with IngramSpark because of hardcover, do they also pub the book in other versions - paperback and digital?

Anita wrote: If you go with IngramSpark because of hardcover, do they also pub the book in other versions - paperback and digital?
Yes, Ingram Spark publishes hardcover, paper and ebooks. Also Ingram distributes to libraries and bookstores and also has a global program to sell internationall. KDP and CreateSpace sell only through Amazon. Overdrive provides ebooks to public libraries. You get on Overdrive through Smashwords or Draft2Digital.

I want to thank everyone for your comments. I have opened an account with IngramSpark and I am setting up my second novel, You Are Mine, here. I am impressed with all the detailed information on self publishing. I am hoping to have my book ready for publication in the next month or two.

I have not used either of the services, but I am part of a large writer's group.

In my writer's group we have an indie author like myself but we also have an indie author that has his own publishing house. Here's what they have both said:

Createspace is great for the Amazon side. Easier to format and get everything logged on. The problem they have is sometimes the system will pop back with erros on their ISBNs, especially if they use both Createspace and Ingram Spark.

Ingram Spark is a fav in our writer's group BECAUSE: with IngramSpark businesses like Barnes and Nobles and other book stores can order the books for in house signings and shelving. If they don't sell all the copies at a signing they can choose to shelve it to see if it will sell or return the book for a portion of what they paid.

I have found it is almost impossible to do instore signings unless you have books through a POD that can fit this need. I am actually trying to switch over to IngramSpark for almost all my works (why some of my books are listed as unavailable right now) because I am currently not able to do instore signings with my current POD service. I currently use Lulu Publishing (which I love!) and am sad they offer expanded distribution but I can't DO anything with it.

For their own printing needs, the authors in my group use CreateSpace. They use it to print and order books for their signings. So the large majority of my group has them listed but not for expanded distribution. They use Ingram for that.

Sounds confusing, and I'm just scratching the surface for me personally. That's how they explained it. Hope it helps.

Marie Silk wrote: "I use Createspace for Amazon, and Ingram Spark for the other retailers. I think Ingram probably has the best quality print, especially lately, since I've had a few Createspace books come out with q..."

I am very near the last step of approving my files for POD availability on KDP (Amazon) and IngramSpark... I want my memoir to be available on Amazon around the world, and through retail international bookstore and library distribution markets in the US and globally. I haven't seen how to select the markets for IngramSpark to assure I don't double book it showing up on Amazon. Do my market selections come later, after approval, with IngramSpark? Help!

It's been awhile since I published a paperback with Ingram, so I'm trying to remember the process. It's possible that you don't choose distribution retailers until after the book has been set up with Ingram and is ready for proofs to be ordered and your official approval. Are you at this step already? Maybe someone who has published more recently can verify.

I'm looking at Ingram Spark as a replacement for my paperbacks from Amazon - primarily because Amazon does not allow me to order "Author Copies," from Australia.

After Chronos swallowed his children Amazon rolled Createspace into KDP - I now have troubles with some key points.

Marie Silk wrote: "It's been awhile since I published a paperback with Ingram, so I'm trying to remember the process. It's possible that you don't choose distribution retailers until after the book has been set up wi..."
I am at the ordering a hard copy proof step.

Ann wrote: "I am at the ordering a hard copy proof step. "

Okay, so I believe once you give final approval of the proof, they show the distribution channels with check boxes next to them, and that's where you can make sure the Amazon one is not selected.

Graeme wrote: "After Chronos swallowed his children Amazon rolled Createspace into KDP - I now have troubles with some key points.

"

Oh my goodness, this cracked me up! Good luck with the transfer :).

Thanks Marie. Taking my time with this. Got heaps on and I want to ensure I fully understand how Ingram operates before signing up with them.

They have POD in Australia which would be handy in my local market.

I use both services. Createspace is the least expensive, but bookstores have told me they don't offer a standard discount so they are reluctant to stock them. So, I use CS for the copies that I hand sell and that Amazon sells. I use IngramSpark for the copies that I sell through wider distribution.

Regarding Ingram: Be sure to check the fine print on their returns policy. If a bookstore returns your books, you could end up owing Ingram more than you receive in royalties.

From their own website: "Publishers will be charged for the current wholesale cost of each book returned, plus a $2.00 per book shipping and handling charge ... However, returns can be very costly and you should be financially prepared for returns. The following is an example of the cost of a returned book, in US dollars:

Retail/list price $20 – 55% wholesale discount = $9.00 wholesale price - $4.81 print cost for small paperback containing 300 pages = $4.19 in publisher compensation paid to you.

If the book is returned, we charge you back the wholesale price of $9.00."

Look at your royalty schedule, find out the wholesale cost and do the math.

There is a place to say "no" to returns in the setup. I always choose "no." This mainly applies to bookstores, though, because bookstores like to return books they can't sell.
I focus on sales to libraries which don't typically return books.

C.J. wrote: "There is a place to say "no" to returns in the setup. I always choose "no." This mainly applies to bookstores, though, because bookstores like to return books they can't sell.
I focus on sales to ..."

Smart.

I just wanted people to be aware. Most of my clients had no idea and they think Ingram is better at getting them in bookstores. Perhaps true, but at a potential cost.

Kevin wrote: "C.J. wrote: "There is a place to say "no" .... Kevin, I very much agree. Reading the terms is crucial. Before I began with Ingram Spark, I did a lot of research and decided to focus on selling to libraries. Public libraries buy a lot of books every year. Also I found that 50% of readers who check a book out of the library and like it will go on to purchase a book by the same author.

I have two books out. The first was a book of historical short stories, and the 2nd is a historical novel. The short stories were only published on Amazon, but I put the novel out on both IS and CS since I would like (someday) to submit it to BookBub and it is apparently beneficial to sell in multiple outlets (not just Amazon).

I've been really working at marketing the two books on Amazon through AMS and I've been pleased at the results. Also, I think I see the results in real time (or close to it).

With IS, on the other hand, there are no options for advertising on Barnes & Noble or Kobo or Apple so its difficult for a novel to get any traction. It is also a lot more complicated to see what sales I've made on IS than on CS. I think I've made some sales through it (at least my bank gets small deposits from them occasionally), but I don't see any sales data when I try to pull up reports. Amazon's is very clear and updated all the time.

I'm not sure I would go with IS with my next novel, depends on how things go with BookBub (assuming I get accepted). Most of my sales are through Amazon, the sales updates are easy to access and clear, and the marketing options are much better.

Any other opinions/experiences on this?

Eileen, I plan to use IS when publishing and I'm concerned about your comment "I think I've made some sales through it (at least my bank gets small deposits from them occasionally), but I don't see any sales data when I try to pull up reports."

My concern is IS must have some sort of report in order for authors to determine sales and report income on tax returns. Does anyone have any information on this? Thank you. Hugs, Sam

Eileen wrote: "I have two books out. ."

A key factor here is that comparing Amazon and Ingram Spark is like comparing apples and oranges. Amazon is a book "vendor." You can publish through KDP (Create Space is being absorbed by KDP), and then sell via Amazon. Ingram is a huge company that "distributes" books all over the world. "Distributing" is not the same as "selling" directly to individuals. Ingram (and Ingram Spark) make books available to bookstores, libraries and book vendors like Amazon. For example, I have hardcover, paper and ebook versions of my latest novel. Amazon sells the mobi for Kindle ebook but not the epub (which is for other devices). Amazon will also sell my hardcover which is published by Ingram Spark.

I haven't tried to advertise on B&N, Kobo, etc. directly. Instead, I choose to buy ads through promo sites such as EReaderIQ, Robin Reads, ENT, BookAdrenaline, and eventually I will through BookBub. Most of these promo sites allow you to link to Amazon as well as other vendors like B&N, Kobo. etc.

You also might consider selling a digital version via Smashwords or Draft2Digital. Both will provide your book to Overdrive which in turn provides digital books to libraries for checkout.

Also if you pay extra, you can get in the Ingram Spark catalog which goes out to bookstores, libraries, book vendors, etc. Then they can order directly from Ingram Spark.

Regarding Ingram Spark sales reports, there is a way to get them on your IngSpk dashboard and also they will send you sales reports (assuming you have sales) via email as a PDF and Excel file. I suggest you contact Support at IngSpk to make sure they know you want to receive sales reports.

For me, IngSpk's great value is to sell to libraries (and bookstores). It's just not possible for libraries to buy through Amazon unless an individual librarian orders an individual book. IngSpk also has an active global program and distributes book outside this U.S.

In other words, you are expecting IngSpk to behave like Amazon and it's not, which you find disappointing. Oranges will never taste like apples. I suggest you learn more about how Ingram Spark works and use it for what it does well.

C.J. Shane

C.J. wrote: "Hi Sam! ..."

Thank you, Shane! I will check that out! Hugs

C.J., Please mind the rules: no link and no self-promotion. So, if you could edit post #50 to remove either?

Comment deleted. No links. Thanks.

Tomas wrote: "C.J., Please mind the rules: no link and no self-promotion. So, if you could edit post #50 to remove either?"

Sorry. I didn't see your comment before I deleted.

Thanks, Tomas.