You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Can't tell you Cherie :-) or I'll spoil your fun! Glad you're enjoying it.

I might just join you. I should finish my current book tonight and then I can start The Girl with No Shadow.

Oh, I can hardly stand Zozie! She makes my stomach churn. I am at Tuesday, 27 November. Section 7 of Change. (view spoiler)[the girls from Annie's school had come. Zozie tried to get Annie to do something. Use magic on them or something. Zozie tried to see what Annie was afraid of and Annie shut her out. But she got a name. Les Laveuses and she is trying to find out about what might have happened. She is in Vianne's room going through her stuff. (hide spoiler)]

I'll be starting later today, Cherie. I have to work today, so won't start till about 4:00.

I just downloaded the audiobook version. I have the paperback, but had to do a switcheroo in formats to fit two buddy reads in. Crazy!

Oh crap! I just realized The Lollypop Shoes is the abridged version!!! So I returned it.

But, I will start GWNS this afternoon. I will break my ritual and read for two hours after work instead of listen. It will feel strange not to have an audiobook on the go.

Glad you will be joining, Janice. I saw your thrash with the audio book versions. I know what you mean about not having something to listen to also. It feels like something is missing. Everything I have started, series wise, is all waiting on hold, so I keep looking for something else. I downloaded Watership Down yesterday. I'm not sure I will keep it. I read the book ages ago, but I'm not sure I'm in the mood for it. At least I can return it to Overdrive and not feel guilty about not listening to it.

I read Part One "Death". This book does seem to be dark, and maybe it's because this section deals with death. It sets it up with the boy who sold his shadow in exchange for immortality (hence perhaps the title of the book derived from this tale). Then it talks about "The Black Man".

I know you talked about who/what The Black Man was during your read of Chocolat. I googled and found (from Wikipedia), "Throughout her life, Vianne has been running from the "Black Man", a recurring motif in her mother's folklore. When her mother is killed by a cab, Vianne continues on her own, trying to evade the Black Man and the mysterious force of the wind and settle down to a normal life." I think The Black Man is the devil or death. I lean a bit more towards the devil because of the comment about not always wearing a clerical collar.

Finally, there is talk of "The Kindly Ones". I think that refers to the people with good intentions, who actually do more harm than good.

Oh and the quote from the book, "To be a mother, is to live in fear."

It does have an ominous start.

I am at December 3rd (makes me smile - it's my sister's birthday) I think this section is called Advent. It is getting more and more complicated. (view spoiler)[Roux came. Zozie's magic did not work on him. I don't like Thierry. He is going to turn on them. I can almost feel it. I hate his reaction to Rosette and how he treats her. (hide spoiler)]

Yes, Janice. The Black Man must be death. At least the end of all good things. Is that the same thing? The Good Ones are as you say.

What did you think of the beginning? Wasn't it confusing at first?

Yes, the beginning was a bit confusing because it really sounded like it was Vianne's POV.

I read Part Two, Jaguar.

I don't like how Anouk is being bullied at school, but glad that she's not caving in to their demands that she conform.

I don't trust Zozie. I don't know what her game is, but she scares me.

I think (view spoiler)[marrying Thierry will be bad for Vianne. He's a bit overbearing and pompous. The girls don't like him. (hide spoiler)]

I had gotten the impression that Chocolat was set in the 50's, maybe even the 60's. Certainly the movie was. I don't remember getting the feel from the book when I read it last year that it was set in modern times. It was a bit of a disappointment when I read about iPods and cell phones.

Janice wrote: "I read Part Two, Jaguar.

I don't like how Anouk is being bullied at school, but glad that she's not caving in to their demands that she conform.

I don't trust Zozie. I don't know what her game..."

I did not really get a feeling for when Chocolat took place, buy you are right, I did pick up on the cell phones and iPods in this second book. I just looked at the publishing dates and it does make sense. 1998 vs 2007.

Cherie wrote: "I am on part 3, Friday, 16 November (view spoiler) ."

I about to start the Section "Advent" - Dec 1, so I can now go back and comment on your spoilers.

(view spoiler)[It's always a mistake to marry for the kids. Neither one of the girls like Thierry. I don't either. He wants to make them all conform to his ideals. I would have been really angry if some man, who never really interacted with my daughter, was to suddenly force a spoon into her hand and try to force her to use it. I would have bit him too!

I think Rosette is going to have a major role in thwarted Zozie. Nobody pays her much heed, and she is aware. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "Oh, I can hardly stand Zozie! She makes my stomach churn. I am at Tuesday, 27 November. Section 7 of Change. [spoilers removed]"

Yes, I was a little confused in that section as to what (view spoiler)[Zozie tried to get Anouk to do. Certainly, she wants her to crave revenge as she herself does. Anouk seems to not feel the need to exact revenge. Zozie is instilling fear by saying how the girls' bullying could escalate.

Everyone seems to want Anouk to conform, including Zozie.

I had a thought about Zozie going through Vianne's box of things. She thinks she's found the "money pot", but what she has found Vianne's fears and not her magic. That is in her wooden spoon that Roux made, the granite slab, the spatula, the copper pot she makes chocolate in for Anouk. And Zozie is totally oblivious to that.

Oh, oh... and I believe that intentions are powerful. That what we put out into the universe by way of intention is what comes back to us. Zozie may help people, but it's always to serve her own narcissism. Vianne's intention with helping others is never self serving.

And Roux is back!! Yeah! Will Rosette recognize him as her father? Things are bound to ruffle old Thierry's feathers. (hide spoiler)]

Janice - (view spoiler)[I think you are right about Vianne's magic is in her things, but I did not think Zozie was looking for that. Zozie has her own magic. It feels like she wants to hurt Vianne and take something from her but I do not understand why. I think she wants to take Anouk and mold her into her image. Maybe I am confused. Does she just want power? I know that Vianne never tried to hurt anyone, but I still have not figured out what happened. I think I was just so caught up in the story in the first book and the contrast between Vianne and the curate that I never picked up on other things. I think something happened with Anouk that scared Vianne badly - it has been aluded to. I think Anouk is a nice girl and I do wish she were happier. It looks like she is going to get hurt with Zozie's meddeling. I think Rosette is going to play a bigger role, but I am just waiting to see what, like the rest of it. (hide spoiler)] I do not feel that Zozie really helps people except to satisfy her own schemes.

Looks like you are going to pass me by, Janice. I was trying to finish my Australia book last night and did not read TGwNS. :)

I just got to "The Kindly Ones" (view spoiler)[Anouk
remembers. She is going to tell Zozie everything. (hide spoiler)] I need to go to sleep even though I'm dying to know!

Cherie wrote: "Janice - [spoilers removed] I do not feel that Zozie really helps people except to satisfy her own schemes."

My assessment as well. It appears that she is helping, but really she's just manipulating.

(view spoiler)[There is 4 years between the two settings, and they do keep alluding to something that happened. I'm sure it will be revealed. Vianne is so much more fearful in this book. I'm hoping that she will get that sparkle back. (hide spoiler)]

I can't stand it! I had to peek ahead, and I'm no further ahead in figuring out how it's all going to end. I'm about to start the part "The Kindly Ones".

Do you remember the movie "When Harry Met Sally"? He said he was so morbid that he always read the last page so that if he died before he finished the book, he'd know how it ended. TEMPTED!

Janice wrote: "I can't stand it! I had to peek ahead, and I'm no further ahead in figuring out how it's all going to end. I'm about to start the part "The Kindly Ones".

Do you remember the movie "When Harry Me..."

ROFL! Yes, I remember the line.

There have been times I wanted to look at the back of a book to see if there were answers, but the few times I did, I was usually disappointed. I cannot remember when I did it the last time.

I figure getting to the end of the book is soon enough to find out the answers - if there are any, and life is an adventure. I don't think we are supposed to know all of the answers before our time is over.

You're going all philosophical on me now, Cherie! Love it!

I will peek ahead if I start getting really anxious, just so I can relax and savour the read instead of rushing through it. And chocolate should be savoured. LOL! (Don't you love my justification?)

Janice wrote: "You're going all philosophical on me now, Cherie! Love it!

I will peek ahead if I start getting really anxious, just so I can relax and savour the read instead of rushing through it. And chocola..."

LOL, sorry Janice. Chocolate sounds good right now. Hope to get more read in TGWnS tonight. I finished my audio book this morning. The new one I started isn't doing much for me yet.

I'm not going to get to it today. I had a doctor's appt after work today, then met the wine group for supper and laughs. I got home a short while ago, and think I'll go to bed early.

I decided on Marry Me Chocolate ice cream tonight and one chocolate covered cherry - my favorite treat. I have been reading and

I love the line... that is your favourite!

hmmm. I don't know what happened to the rest of my post from last night. I was on my iPod.

I hope you had a good time at your wine group!

I meant to say that I had been reading and dozing off in my chair. I was going to stop at Friday, December 14 (that is my birthday), and A LOT had been revealed and I needed to sleep on it.

I actually read more after I gave up and got into bed. I stopped at the beginning of section 7 (Saturday, December 15th) of The Kindly Ones.

I am reading on my Original Nook and it is not easy to go back and forth and figure out where I am. My Nook indicates that there are 331 pages in the book, but the verson in Status Updates indicates over 400. It looks like the last page is on 326. I am currently on page 227, so I have 99 pages left.

(view spoiler)[ Now we know the story about when Rosette was born and doctor and the priest and the welfare lady and "the accident". Yeah, I could see why Vianne is so different now and why she is hiding and trying so hard to blend in. It is so sad. Vianne went to see Roux. They kissed! She left. Anouk went to see Roux. She told him about Rosette. He got mad!!! Pour Anouk... Zozie revealled what happened to her in school and how she left her mother. Wow! Zozie revealed that she is reading Anouk's diary and she is still keeping tabs on Vianne's box of secrets?? They are just keepsakes, I don't get it. Oh - I thought part about the cards and the colors was cool! (hide spoiler)]

I've passed my birthday (Dec 6), and am about to start Part 7, The Tower, Dec 19.

Re: Your spoiler (view spoiler)[The Kindly Ones were what I expected. I agree. It's no wonder that Vianne was feeling so fearful. And why marrying Thierry would even be an option.

Zozie is showing more of her true nature to the reader, and she is one nasty piece of work! I'm glad that both Vianne and Anouk went behind her back to see Roux. She was really trying to manipulate that situation and keep him away. She can't control him as easy and may be a threat. I hope! I think he's suspicious. (hide spoiler)]

Thierry - (view spoiler)[ I'm so glad that Vianne has finally seen Thierry and exactly what kind of man he is. Would you marry a man who called your daughters a "spoiled brat and a retard"? I think it has released her from that self imposed prison she made for herself and she's started to come back to herself. But even she senses it may be too late. There is a lot of foreboding in the story at this point and everyone feels it. (hide spoiler)]

I'm reading a trade paperback and I'm at page 331 of 444 so have just over 100 pages to go.

I just got to The Tower. I can't read your spoilers until I get onto my lap top.

(view spoiler)[Roux is gone. What a shock when Thierry blurted out to Vianne about "the spoiled brat and the retard..." Is Zozie trying to take Vianne's life? How bizzare that she she went to see the woman that was Vianne's mother?? Vianne seems to be waking up. I can't see what is going to happen. Oh, and the pictures that Jean-Loup took of Zozie with the yellow halos?? Weird! (hide spoiler)]

I'm reading in bed now. December 21st (view spoiler)[Anouk told her mother everything! (hide spoiler)] Vianne is in the kitchen cooking the chocolate. It is so beautiful, the descriptions of the smells and the process! She is scrying in the steam and glimpsing people and things. Fascinating.

Joanne Harris' writing is beautiful, isn't it?

@ Joanne Harris' writing - Yes, I love it!

I just got to Yule. The battle has begun.

I need sleep. Good night...

I finished The Girl With No Shadow this afternoon. I really enjoyed this book. I liked that we got to know Anouk better, and that we got to meet Rosette. (view spoiler)[ I thought that Rosette would have more resolution to the outcome. Throughout the story she was the overlooked observer. Nobody really engaged her in what was going on. She was silent, and yet watchful. I thought she would somehow intervene in her own way. She demonstrated twice that she was great at restoring something broken. Wasn't it great that Roux accepted her so.... well, she was perfect in his eyes. (hide spoiler)]

I really liked Jean-Loup. (view spoiler)[ He was far more aware of what was going on than anyone gave him credit for. He had his own style of magic. I'm just a little fuzzy about the ending. I think that he didn't actually eat the truffle, just let Zozie think he did. He saw her for who she really was. I like to think he staged the late entrance to goad her. But, I'm not sure if that's what happened. (hide spoiler)]

My only complaint was that I felt Joanne Harris over used the magic. While some of it was necessary to the story, I kind of wearied with all the "one jaguar", "lady moon", "smoking mirror", etc. It seemed like it was a hodge-podge of different magical beliefs. The Black Man became The Winter Queen, and even The Kindly Ones. It got a little confusing.

The magic in Chocolat was more understated, and thus more whimsical.

I'm looking forward to Peaches for Father Francis. Are we just going to continue the thread with the inclusion of the next book? Or are you wanting a break?

Whew! I finished the book and finally wrote my review .

I agree about the over use of the Aztec symbols. I got a little tired of it too. I think she dragged the whole thing out just a little too long, but I guess it ended how we wanted it to, huh? There were some shocking moments and a few twisted happenings at the end though!

I was proud of Roux for how he accepted Rosette and his "surprise" at midnight on Christmas Eve.

I am not sure about Rosette. Maybe we will see and "hear" more from her in the next story.

I am ready to start the next one for anyone who wants to join in and I am hoping it will be more like the first story, "understated, and thus more whimsical". :)

I'm ready to start if you are. I will download it on iBooks and start right away. My bed is calling to me so I'm not sure how long I'll be able to stay awake. But I can get started.

I am babysitting the boys this evening for Amy. As soon as I get Ryan in bed, I am going to start too. :)

I am at Sunday, 15th August.
M. le Cure: "I tried a smile, though I am aware that my personal charm is somewhat lacking."
LOL!

I'm at Chapter 10, Sunday August 15. There are several chapters for that same date.

Already the tone of the story is more reminiscent of Chocolat. It's more relaxed and whimsical already.

I like that M. le Cure went with Vianne to put flowers on Armande's grave. True to form, he turned his nose up at the wild flowers they picked, but conceded that Vianne herself was much like the wild flowers. So, while he is still the same man, he seems to have softened some.

I was sad that Roux didn't go with them, but maybe he'll arrive later in the story. I like the relationship between him and Rosette.

I highlighted this line, "...river-rats (political correctness dictates that we cannot call them gypsies any more." Really? And calling them river-rats is so much better?

I did catch the river-rats comments and thought the same thing, Janice.

I noticed the multiple dates too, but did you notice the symbol? Looks like a cross for Father Francis and a crescent moon for Vianne.

I like the story feel of this one better too.

I think it is interesting that he is still talking to his old mentor, but writing it down now. Even his confession. I feel bad for him, that he is being rail-roaded out of the church.

You will get a hint about why Roux might not have wanted to come a little later, once you get past all the town changes section.

Rosette has a friend!

He is a strange man, Father Francis. I am on chapter six, Wednesday, 18th August. (view spoiler)[he bought bread and croissants for Vianne and left the bag on the door step. So, they wouldn't know it was him? He walks by the gym for penance every day because it scares him? He seems to taunt the Arabs. I don't understand his animosity towards Mahjoubi, but the old man seems to be just as much of an aggressor (hide spoiler)]

Sunday, 22nd August. Only three days later in the story but feels like a lot of pages in the book.
Harris' comments about the priest having no friends, only followers and enemies, really struck me as so sad. I've never known any Catholic clergy. It feels wrong but I have no experience to base it on. He has become such an under dog and I almost want to like him. Harris can really put on a story. This one feels so much like Five Quarters of the Orange.

Still no ideas about what is really going on on the other side of the river, but the expectation that we will get to the bottom of the story soon? Surprise about Alyssia and what she did!

Oh, I forgot. I was wrong about the symbols on the chapter headings. There seems to be no consistency.

Have you read a book where you just want to get on the phone and call someone and tell them about how wonderful the writing is and tell them what happened after every good line or comment? Here I am!!!

Monday, 22rd August

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. Well, at least, I would have sinned, if I'd had the chance."

I am about to start First Quarter, Chapter 1, Monday, 16th August.

I thought the section where Father Francis was explaining the arrival of the foreigners and the dynamics they brought to be a little dry.

While Father Francis is the underdog in this book, perhaps Caro is the villain? I shall find out as I read.

You're further ahead than I, Cherie. I couldn't stay awake while reading last night, so gave up fighting and turned out the lights.

It was only 7 hours ago??? I think my wake/sleep cycle is seriously affected by this series!
Birds fed...check
Token housework accomplished...check (you made me feel guilty, Janice)
Toast and coffee next to chair...check
Open Nook and press button...check

Starting at Thursday, 26th August - Chapter Eight

"The river-rats are back in town."

Sounds like the title of a song to me!

Headed by the Rat Pack? You're motoring Cherie.

I just finished. Awesome will never be the same word for me. I can't think to write anything down right now. I just want to enjoy it all.

So much good reading ahead for you, Janice!
I have sooo many bookmarked pages! I will reread them later.

I'm not even sure that I can bring myself to start another book tonight.

You pounded through the series Cherie - impressive - glad you enjoyed them.

I'm about half way. I was surprised that Josephine (view spoiler)[ seemed to be ignoring Vianne. She was conspicuously missing from the story. Just as I was thinking that, Vianne made the same observation. Part of me thinks that Roux is her son's father. But then I think that's too obvious. He spent 4 years there. I can't see him being there and watching his son grow, and then just leave him. But there is something about the father that has Josephine running shy from Vianne. (hide spoiler)]

Father Francis (view spoiler)[ is being unfairly accused and shunned. I don't know if Pere Henri is genuine, or if what we learn of him is Francis' perception. (hide spoiler)]

After I turned the light out last night, I was trying to go to sleep. One of the last thoughts I remember was that I just wanted to be reading.

I finished the book at 2:30 this morning. I couldn't stop reading until I finished it.

We zoomed right on through this book, that we didn't really stop to discuss it along the way.

I suspected about half way into the book that (view spoiler)[ Karim was the evil one and not Inez. What a terrible existence she led - to be raped by a man and then to be blamed by everyone, including her own family!

I'm hesitant to say that it's their culture to blame for this attitude towards women and children, but you hear these tales over and over. I can't believe that this attitude is cultural, rather that it is embraced by fanatical zealots. We have that attitude here as well - that a woman is "asking for it" if she wears a short skirt, or shows her midriff.

Karim was warped beyond fanaticism. I have to wonder if he didn't inherit his sickness from his father. I don't know. I've had 5 hours sleep and must get to work. I'm sure I'll process this throughout the day. (hide spoiler)]

LOL, Janice. We were both short on sleep today.
Your comments felt pretty much like I did as I went along.
(view spoiler)[None of the characters in the town were really in this story, except by name. Caro, maybe and Luc a little. Re Josephaphine and the boy and Roux. I thought he was Roux's at first, but felt the same way you did. Wasn't it a huge surprise when Jean-Paul was revealed? I thought he died in the first book.

The story was really more about the Muzalim community. Some of it really made me realize that I only know things by what I have seen on TV. Wearing the bruka and black robe is not in the Koran? I did not know that Rhammadan lasted so long. I loved Omi!I think it took me longer to figure out what was going on and that Karim was really the bad guy, but his mother's reveal really shocked me. I thought he was a bad person, but I did not understand what was going on.

I loved the Foxy the Jinni part but I felt so bad for Francis. I loved the whale annalogy and how Harris wrote much of this part of the story. (hide spoiler)]

re:not making comments as we read. Some books seem harder to do this with than others. I get so wrapped up in the reading and pulled along with the story that it is hard to make myself to stop and make comments or observations.

Of all of the trillogies that I have read this year, this one has been the most satisfying and most well done. I think Harris did such a good job changing up the stories. The first one so magical with the good and evil contest, the second such a dark story, and the third a mystery with all of the layers peeled away by the end. I really loved the food references in the third story too. The black and white wind made me think about Vincent Van Gogh in Arles in Lust for Life.

(view spoiler)[Do you think they stayed and moved back into the shop or went back to Paris at the end? (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "LOL, Janice. We were both short on sleep today.
Your comments felt pretty much like I did as I went along.
None of the characters in the town were really in this story, except by name. Caro, ma..."

I was really disappointed in (view spoiler)[Josephine's diminished presence in the book. She was disappointed in herself and thought she had let Vianne down. That really translated to the reader well, didn't it?

I was surprised that Paul-Marie was alive, but I wasn't surprised about him being Pilou's father. I thought it was possible given how ashamed Josephine was, thinking she had failed Vianne. Who else would have caused that reaction? (hide spoiler)]

My son was over at lunch and I told him the gist of the story. (view spoiler)[ He became quite upset when I told him about Karim blaming his mother for being raped, and about him blaming Du'a for being immoral because of the circumstances around her birth. We talked about the victim being blamed for the crime. He said, "Do these men have no control over their own bodies? They see a woman they lust after, and go after her like a rutting animal?" My son has always gotten upset when he encounters situations where there is injustice. (hide spoiler)]

I was a little thrown when Ines (view spoiler)[ mentioned that Karim had been having internet sex with Marie-Ange Lucas, and nobody made the connection to Marie-Ange Lucas who worked at the café. It was if this was some girl in Karim's past. (hide spoiler)]

I felt bad throughout the book for Father Francis. (view spoiler)[ I won't be giving this book to my son to read, because I was getting upset at the injustice he was faced with.

While Maya claiming him as her Foxy the Jinni was cute, it was tragic at the same time. And isn't she going to be the determined one when she grows up? I thought maybe Rosette would sign something to Vianne.

I keep waiting for Rosette to be a tour de force, but it's like she's a little doll. Maybe there will be a sequel. (hide spoiler)]

And re: the question at the end... (view spoiler)[ I think Vianne will go back to Paris with Roux, but I think they will be going back and forth frequently. I think Anouk will take over the shop. It's quite possible that we will see another sequel in the book. Harris has left open a couple of loose ends. (hide spoiler)]

I agree that some books are easier to discuss than others. I read 50% of the book after I crawled into bed last night. There was no stopping for discussion.

Yes, the food references were great. I liked the inclusion of the traditional Muslin foods. We went to a Moroccan restaurant in Vegas the first time we went and the flavours were incredible!