Children's Books discussion

What differences of translation have you noted when a well-known folk tale is translated from one language to another? I don't mean the big differences of cultural adaption, like fur slipper vs. glass slipper in Cinderella, so much as I mean more fine distinctions.

(Of course, it may not be possible to distinguish between cultural differences and issues of translation. I'm so uneducated about all this; I'm naive but curious so please elaborate/ clarify as much as you can.)

What got me thinking about this is that I just learned that "Red Riding Hood" is aka Rotkäppchen, and "Snow White" is aka Schneewittchen. Making the names one word like that makes them seem less contrived, more natural, at least to my eyes.

Does anyone know if those are the 'original' names? Do they translate literally? Do they 'sound' better in that (those) language(s)? (I don't even know what language those are, sorry!)

German. I am native German, so I can shed some light :)

The Grimm's Fairy tales are the collection of fairy tales the brothers Grimm gathered around the beginning of the 19th century. Many of them must go back to the Middle Ages, as the feel of them are very medieval with kings and kingdoms and castles and remnants of paganism, yet they are grounded in a firm Christian world view and moral structure.
I have been reading a comprehensive collection of them for the past few years. Meaning, the e-book I bought has 189 of them, and off and on I read one or two. I'm in the 150s now.

Translations are tricky things. Each language has ideosyncracies that are hard to convey into another language. Translating humor where word-plays and such play a big role is often impossible. So if you have, say, Shakespeare in English and German side-by-side the funny parts don't sound funny at all in German or they make something similar out of it. I am giving this example, because I tried it. Elizabethan English is hard for native English speakers, so to get a better grip I did the side-by-side, and I chucked the German a few pages in. It was too confusing.
General prose is a little easier, and to be fair, many translations are pretty good.

Now in German you have the ability to form compound words. You string two or three words together and voila, a new term! As kids we would play games as to who could string the longest word together, making it two, three, and if you were really good, four lines in a notebook!
'Rotkäppchen' literally means "little red cap". Titles often get translated differently to make it sound better in the translated language, hence Little Red Riding Hood. Now the "little" part, the diminutive, is actually a syllable you can attach to every noun. German has two, "chen" and "lein". So a cap, Kappe, becomes a little cap by putting the two together making it Käppchen. Now, to make the distinction that we have a little red cap, the word red, "rot", gets attached as well to make one three-part compound word: Rotkäppchen. Schneewittchen is similar, Schnee means snow, but the word "Wittchen" I have to look a little deeper. It is not a word we use much anymore. It is something like a small person or creature.

Kerstin wrote: "German. I am native German, so I can shed some light :)

The Grimm's Fairy tales are the collection of fairy tales the brothers Grimm gathered around the beginning of the 19th century. Many of them..."

I am German as well, and indeed compound nouns can become a big of an issue, as well as the fact that word by word translations often end up being extremely annoying. And as you have pointed out, while dimminutives work in German and are often used in German, the few times I have seen them used in English translations, they often have the tendency to sound a bit unnatural.

For instance, the addition of the suffix "kin" as an English dimminutive form is generally considered really old fashioned and passe in modern English whilst in German, the dimminutive "chen" is still commonly used, and therefore whilst Peterchen (wee Peter) works in a German text, translating it as Peterkin in English now sounds strange and old fashioned.

Manybooks wrote: "For instance, the addition of the suffix "kin" as an English dimminutive form is generally considered really old fashioned and passe in modern English "

I did not know that! Thanks for the info.

Thank you both!

I've read some children's poetry translations: side-by-side English/Spanish and that's hard enough for the translator; I can't imagine Shakespeare in another language!

Manybooks wrote: "Kerstin wrote: "German. I am native German, so I can shed some light :)

The Grimm's Fairy tales are the collection of fairy tales the brothers Grimm gathered around the beginning of the 19th centu..."

Actually Snow White is a better cultural translation than "Little Snow Thing" it harks back to old Celtic and Norse naming patterns that abound in thee UK. Fion Nula = white shoulder. Old Fox = a red headed shrewd gent. (famously the name of Simon Fraser 11th Lord Lovat)

Golden Tresses aka Goldilocks used to be called Swipepaw. The original British Goldilocks was a thieving golden haired vixen (lady fox) - come the Victorian era there were so many specialised theives that they were given code names. A nightingale dressed up as a nanny so she could walk into a rich house by the servants entrance and stuff her pockets full of silverware. Vixens went through the back alleys of middle class houses with huge laundry baskets, I don't know weather they were stealing clothes off the washing lines or using the basket to hide other stolen goods. Either way it led to Swipepaw being illustrated as a golden haired old woman and the Victorians in their fit of sugar coating nursery stories changed her name to Golden Tresses so that children wouldn't be scared by the thought of a burglar sneaking into their house... within a few years the poor lost old woman becomes a wandering little girl and gets a happy ending... in the original the bears throw the vixen from the top window and then used her fur as a hat for Big bear.

Schneewittchen is basically another way of saying Schneeweißchen, so that would mean the same as Snow White, although a more literal translation would probably be Little Snow White, to show the diminutive.

Actually, there is also an old British variant of Goldilocks that might in fact be the original in which Goldilocks was a nasty and cantankerous old woman who very deliberately and with an evil temperament (akin to a modern so-called home invasion) took over the Three Bears' humble home and caused quite a bit of damage.

You don't happen to know where you saw that version do you? I'd love to read it.
Swipepaw dates back to the reign of James V of Scotland, an infant king, he was kidnapped during his minority by a usurper. James V grew to be an intelligent and ruthless monarch. In Swipepaw it is not the big bears strength that leads to the intruders death but little bears cunning.

Elspeth wrote: "You don't happen to know where you saw that version do you? I'd love to read it.
Swipepaw dates back to the reign of James V of Scotland, an infant king, he was kidnapped during his minority by a ..."

I think I read about it on Wikipedia. It was a fairy tale that according to Wikipedia was first penned by one Robert Southey in 1837 and included in a book titled The Doctor (you should check if it might be available on Project Gutenberg as a free download). And the Wikipedia entry is also interesting but of course like ALL Wikipedia entries, needs to be approached cautiously.

Elspeth wrote: "You don't happen to know where you saw that version do you? I'd love to read it.
Swipepaw dates back to the reign of James V of Scotland, an infant king, he was kidnapped during his minority by a ..."

I need to find a copy of Swipepaw as well and read it. Is it available online?

Good question. I'll have a look..... found a version collected by Joseph Jacobs who was working in the 1890's his version is called Scrapefoot and Scrapefoot is allowed to live! You can see the transition though. If I don't find the old Swipepaw online I shall type it up for you.

https://www.worldoftales.com/European...