The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the weeks of August 25th - August 31st, we are reading PART TWO ~ A Christening (346 - 374.) No spoilers.

The eleventh week's reading assignment is:

WEEK ELEVEN- August 25th - August 31st
PART TWO - A Christening (346 - 374)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book is being kicked off on June 16th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on August 25th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Jill will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Bentley.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Paul Scott

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how to cite books:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...


Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

by Paul Scott

We do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

NOTE

For those of you who are reading this book on e-books or whose edition has different numbering than that used by the moderator, the last page of this week's assignment ends with the sentence, "She turned again, traced her steps to the tonga stand and there gave the chokra his anna".

Chapter Summary and Overview

Sarah continues to have dreams that intermingle and she tries to interpret what they mean. Letters of condolence began to pour in, addressed mainly to Susan's mother. Susan detaches herself from the letters and asks Sarah and her Mother to put any aside any that she might want to look at later. One letter which they have been waiting for comes and Susan takes it to her room. Sarah goes up later and Susan lets her read the letter from Teddie's commander. They learn to at the time of Teddie's death he and Merrick were together and Merrick attempted to give Teddie aid to no avail. Merrick was also injured and is being named in dispatches. Susan looks through her photo album and notices that there is only one picture of Merrick. Sarah remembers talking with him and that she had not trusted him and felt he was a man who was obsessed by self--awareness. Sarah states that he might not have wanted his picture taken as people might recognize him as the policeman in the Daphne Manners case. Susan says that Teddie was terribly upset and never forgave Merrick for his actions then but that she must forgive him and send him a letter thanking him for helping Teddie. She wants Sarah to show the letter from Teddie's commanding officer to her mother. Susan does not want to do it herself since her Mother didn't like Teddie and didn't want her to marry him. She wanted everything to remain the same until their father was released from the prison camp.

Susan reveals that she wanted to be like everyone else....to make a life for herself and that marrying
Teddie, even though she did not love him, was a big part of it. Their honeymoon was horrible since Susan had nothing to give him emotionally. But the fact that she was pregnant had made Teddie happy because she was now giving him something.

Susan asks Sarah to look after the baby is something happens to her. But what if Sarah gets married....she won't want to take care of someone else's child. People will just pity her as a poor widow with a child and she will never marry again except for love. But she isn't sure what love is. She thinks that Merrick should be the godfather to the child which would not be well received by the family. The next day a letter comes to Susan from Merrick and Susan is convinced from certain signs and portents in the note that Merrick no long has the use of eyes and limbs. Susan becomes dangerously withdrawn.

Aunty Mabel shows the christening gown that Sarah had worn and Sarah feels that Susan's baby should wear it. Sarah begins her journey to see Merrick at Susan's request.

Question


Why do you think that Susan would not look at or respond to any of the many letters of condolence? Was it guilt since she did not love Teddie?

Susan says she never wanted the child but it made Teddie happy. Do you think she just didn't want to share the spotlight with a baby or did not want a reminder of Teddie? Or, after Teddie's death, she did not want to be pitied as a young widow with a child to raise?

I think you all went on vacation!!!!

Hi Jill and all. I am about two weeks behind in reading due to coming out of retirement to do some teaching. I don't want to read any of the comments here until I catch up - I hope it will be soon!

Up to my eyeballs in work.

Glad to know that everything is OK.....I was missing your comments!!!!

I think the death of Teddie has thrown Susan into a world just the opposite of what she wanted, which was as Jill said, 'to be like everyone else.' The reason for the child was to 'fit in.' Now Susan's a widow in India. Not only is she a widow in a strange land, but a young one, with a child. That's not like everyone else. She's not only in shock from her husband's death, which has put her life on a track of its own, but she's suffering from depression. So she couldn't respond to the letters of condolence. It's not that the baby is a reminder of Teddie, but a reminder of the life she'll never have.

Susan is a really complex character. I can't think of her as grieving or guilty because she says she's hollow emotionally. Either we'll come to understand her more in the subsequent novels or she'll just drop out of the plot, but I think it's the former. She may turn out to be just as nuanced a character as Merrick.

I'll be curious to see her reactions and behavior after the child is born. I can't make up my mind if she is complex or just a shallow person. She and Sarah are as different as day and night and I wonder, if in the end, Susan might turn out to have the happier life.

She's complex as many of these characters are. K is on the right track.

The author gives the reader some leeway in determining the personality of his major character. Susan is giving me problems.....she originally looked like a self-absorbed young woman but as the story progresses there are clues that she may have more substance. I am still on the fence.

Susan must be thinking of Daphne Manners when she asks Sarah to take care of the baby if anything happens to her.......the fact that Merrick was with Teddie when he died is one more link back to Daphne and Hari.

I'm skeptical that Susan was thinking of Daphne. There's nothing in the story that indicates it.

But, perhaps, it's another one of her actions to cut herself off from the world she previously played a leading role in. The something that might happen seems forboding, an indication of suicidal thinking? a premonition of something to come?

Why, it's almost as if she' drawing a circle around herself, cutting all connections and excluding all that she was a part of.

I was just thinking of the coincidence of Daphne's death at childbirth and Susan's request to Sarah. But as you pointed out, she may be having suicidal thoughts. She is moving away from her previous life and may find that the change to widowhood and parenthood is not something that she can bear or envision for herself.

I agree with Jill's last statement, that Susan can't envision the change to widowhood and parenthood and that frightens her. I'm not sure she was thinking of Daphne or that she'd want to compare herself to Daphne. Sarah on the other hand, may have thought of Daphne if she was in Susan's predicament. Bringing up a child in India as a single parent would be hard back then.

I wonder if she may become or already is, suicidal. Martin mention that and it got me thinking. She will not be satisfied unless she is the center of attention. If she is as vulnerable mentally as she appears, suicide can be a distinct possibility.