Aussie Readers discussion

I seem to remember reading books as a child where, when two people were conversing it would use double " " marks for one character, and single ' ' for the second character. In that way I knew who was speaking at any given time. Does anyone else remember this or was that just a childish interpretation on my part?
I don't remember being taught that lol, just that my reading experience was much improved from the discovery.

B the BookAddict wrote: "Sally906 wrote: "And don't get me started on front cover title words all in lower case - including the authors name!!!!!

Yes, I am a paid up member of the grammar police :)"

Me too, Sally. I approach everything with my red marking pen in hand, :) ..."


LOL Bette - you must be a cyber twin :)

Thank you for the feedback about putting dialogue in italics. A couple of you said you find it difficult. The book I am writing is a biography and contains direct quotes (some lengthy) by the person the biography is about. I can see lots of paragraphs could be difficult to read. Do you thin just indenting the lengthy passages would be OK?

I am writing a fictional piece at the moment where the main character is reading sections from a book - in his head - so at the moment I am writing those sections in quoted italics - paragraphs with line breaks from the main body of the novel. These italics sections are probably three paragraphs at a time max.

If I were to make these italic sections larger I'd probably indent text. I've read where others have done this. I could change the font style but this may not work for ebooks.

I agree a change in font style may cause problems with eBooks

Plainsong by Kent Haruf has no quotation marks and it was first published in 1999 so maybe he began the trend:)
Actually his characters don't speak very much so it wasn't really a problem.

Well my five-star Zazie in the Metro had no quotation marks and was written in 1959. But it seemed to be the norm for European writers. I have read several books from the 1800s with no speech marks. I can't remember if Kerouac used them or not, but he would have paragraphs that went on and on for several pages with no punctuation. Oh, I love him. Although it absolutely baffles me that people would want to pass up some of the best books ever written for lack of quotation marks.

Although it absolutely baffles me that people would want to pass up some of the best books ever written for lack of quotation marks.

I suspect it depends very much on what one considers 'some of the best books ever written.'

For me, the lack of punctuation would make those stories effectively unreadable. And consequently, some of the worst books ever written. Paragraphs and paragraphs of no punctuation? I seriously can't imagine almost anything worse!

This really demonstrates how subjective reading is in many ways. Each to their own, I suppose.

Don't you hear the voices and see the images in your head like a film? I do, and there could be no punctuation whatsoever and that wouldn't change it. I guess it comes from deciphering large passages of text with a huge amount of misspellings and strange symbols from using a photo to text translator. :)

For me, without punctuation, sentences lose their meaning, and simply become meaningless strings of ambiguity.

We're all individuals. Having said that, perhaps this discussion is best taken elsewhere. So I'll make another thread so this one doesn't get derailed.

I just finished Tin Man by Sarah Winman which also has no speech marks but is so beautifully written it didn't seem to matter - most of the time. Every now and then I had to go back and work out what was speech and what was not in a long paragraph. It was irritating in what was otherwise a near perfect read.

Here's the new thread.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Shell by Aussie author Kristina Olsson

Leonie wrote: "For me, without punctuation, sentences lose their meaning, and simply become meaningless strings of ambiguity.

We're all individuals. Having said that, perhaps this discussion is best taken elsew..."

It was just supposed to be a list of books without quote marks for people who want to avoid them.

I think that is why Leonie started a separate thread Ace.

The Road by Cormac McCarthy
(Although I think it works okay here with just two characters most of the time).

First Person by Richard Flanagan maybe it is a trend...

Currently reading one off the 2018 Booker Longlist which is afflicted by this editorial disease!

Normal People by Sally Rooney

Very good description Kim!

Oh yes, I do like that! "afflicted by this editorial disease" I will be using that if you don't mind, Kim!!

"I concur."

Was coming to say Normal People too! My first book of this year but I ended up really liked it. Despite the lack of quotations.

I used to be really turned off by the idea of it but the more I read, I more I find that I actually don’t mind it that much. Sorry you it’s a disease to you Kim!

Simpson Returns: A novella by Wayne Macauley

I know we discussed this elsewhere, but here's one author's excuse:
https://www.facebook.com/FinchPublish...

Good grief - she just won the Stella and she has no quotation marks cos she "doesn't like how it looks"!!! You have to be kidding me! Another I won't be reading!!

I'm so grateful for this thread! I can't believe it took me so long to find it lol

There are a lot of us who don't like the current trend - you'd think they'd get the message wouldn't you!

Brenda wrote: "There are a lot of us who don't like the current trend - you'd think they'd get the message wouldn't you!"

Yes I'm quite disturbed by the whole trend of throwing grammar out the window! Bring back the grammar haha

Sorry to Disrupt the Peace by Patty Yumi Cottrell is another one I found.

Red Can Origami by Madelaine Dickie uses a new line, indent, dash to mark speech

Marianne said
- I hate that! It really interrupts the flow!

Why on earth does someone have to reinvent speech indicators when we have a perfectly acceptable method already???
The title of the book put me off anyway Marianne.

Phrynne wrote: "Why on earth does someone have to reinvent speech indicators when we have a perfectly acceptable method already???
The title of the book put me off anyway Marianne."

Phrynne, it was actually a very good read, it didn't need anything gimmicky like this to make it harder to enjoy.

Phrynne wrote: "Why on earth does someone have to reinvent speech indicators when we have a perfectly acceptable method already???
The title of the book put me off anyway Marianne."

Second that question. It bothers me MORE when the story is good!

Exactly Krystal:)

Recently completed another, this one being joint winner of The Booker Prize for 2019 so no surprises there! Not only did it have no speech marks but it had no fullstops either and the line spacing was 'unconventional' to say the least - laid out as if it was poetry , even though it wasn't:
Girl, Woman, Other by Bernardine Evaristo

Despite all this, I really enjoyed the book and rated it 5 stars!!!

Grrr!! No speech marks OR fullstops! Was it not finished before publication??? Definitely not for me Kim! Thanks :)

Definitely a pet peeve of my - Tim Winton is bad at this. I tried to read Cloudstreet as the year 12 English class was going it but I couldn't even finish it because it annoyed me to much.

No full stops... :0

Jeanette Winterson doesn't use inverted commas for speech in her 2019 release, Frankissstein: A Love Story, either. I quite enjoyed the book, but found the lack of speech marks made it more challenging to read (and not in a good way!).
This goodreads reviewer has made a list of other books that have jettisoned speech punctuation: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...

Thanks for the link Sarah :)

Brenda wrote: "Grrr!! No speech marks OR fullstops! Was it not finished before publication??? Definitely not for me Kim! Thanks :)"

'Not finished'!! Brilliant, lol. Nice one, Brenda!

;)

I love Roddy Doyle as a writer, but he indulges in this insidious practice, too. He uses the em dash to signify speech. He's a good enough writer for the reader to differentiate prose and dialogue, but give me good old speech marks any day! It's so much easier visually etc.

House on Endless Waters

Anything by Cormac McCarthy and Tim Winton, although Winton's books are still easy to understand without quotation marks.

Marianne wrote: "House on Endless Waters"
No way really? I should leave this group, I read the whole thing and never noticed....

Another one for this list is Sarah Moss's Ghost Wall. The story is narrated by the protagonist, a 17-year-old girl named Silvie; you can hear her North Country accent as she relates her inner thoughts as well as the action. The writing is so seamless that I had to double-check that the entire book contains no quotation marks.

I haven't read any of Moss's other books, so I don't know whether this is her trademark style, but it's certainly effective here.

The Rain Heron by Robbie Arnott but I'm loving it so much I can actually forgive this irritating quirk, this time...

Marianne wrote: "The Rain Heron by Robbie Arnott but I'm loving it so much I can actually forgive this irritating quirk, this time..."

I enjoyed Flames by him, but decided a year ago not to read any more books without punctuation as it detracted from the enjoyment.

Marianne wrote: "The Rain Heron by Robbie Arnott but I'm loving it so much I can actually forgive this irritating quirk, this time..."

LOL I was reading it over lunch, and knowing you were also reading it, I actually thought to myself “Marianne won’t be happy with this lack of punctuation”. Personally, it doesn’t bother me. I’m really loving it too, so far.