History in Vogue discussion
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Poldark: Series Four
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Marie wrote: "Apparently they’ve announced today, that season five filming began in the last couple of weeks, and will create its own storyline to tell the story of the missing decade that occurs during the time..."I knew they were doing the fifth (last) season, but didn't realize it was going back in time. In other words, "We're no longer following the books, but hey, you love this series, we love money, so......here you go!" I'll take it. Not gonna sneeze at any flashbacks, nope, not me! :D
1 more hour to go. Squeee!
I am so excited for this season to start! I am really loving the show and want to read the books too.
*passes the bowl of virtual popcorn to all*
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I get the idea they had decided to do the fifth season, but didn’t know how to handle the aging problem vs recasting, so they just decided to make it up as they go along. I know there have been some complaints by British viewers over season four, that Debbie has diverted way off the books this year, even giving one of Caroline’s storylines to Ross. I think they were implying she decided she could do better than Graham, but maybe this is why???
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Hi Nikki! I haven’t read the books either, but I figured by this point I might as well wait until the show has ended to decide. Try to fit us in after the show every week ;)
Episode 1: wow, talk about "the eleventh hour"!And man, I hate that we have to wait so long between seasons......I feel like I have to repeat Season 3 now, because Caroline's little announcement, with cute pug reaction and all, felt like it was out of the blue! I mean, we were waiting so long for "that" to happen with those two, and now we find out it did, but behind the scenes?! No, no, no, not fair!
Marie: I am going to wait to read until the show is over as well. Luckily for me, I had all the episodes on DVR and just started watching the series a couple months ago, so I went right into season 4 from season 3. I was unprepared for just how much I would love this show. The plot lines and characters are fantastic!
Whew! What an intense episode. The show changes the timeline a lot. This episode incorporated events from The Angry Tide. The books are SO slow and incorporate a lot of subplots about minor characters and long internal dialogues but are useful for understanding the historical background. This episode takes the very end of The Four Swans and then adds in Angry Tide, curs out some of Four Swans and moves that to the next episode.(view spoiler)
I don't remember Mrs. Martin dying. How tragic! I liked her in the books.
I hope Ossie Whitworth has a heart attack and dies soon.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Whew! What an intense episode. The show changes the timeline a lot. This episode incorporated events from The Angry Tide. The books are SO slow and incorporate a lot of subplots abo..."Yes, I shall miss poor Aunt Agatha!
Tbh, I thought I remembered Ossie as dead already. Must have been wishful thinking. :(
Yes Aunt Agatha was the voice of truth-or doom! It looks like Elizabeth and George are going to be a new power couple. That's just what she is suited for. It's really interesting and scary how much of the politics of the time is relevant today. Ossie is sadly still alive but Morwenna threatened to kill baby John so he leaves her alone. Plus he got caught with her sister and she can hold that against him. I would expect her mother regrets urging Morwenna into that marriage. The only way out at this point is death... for one or the other. I'm hoping it's Ossie. He has a voracious appetite (in more ways than one) so it's quite possible he'll have a heart attack soon. Wishful thinking anyway.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Yes Aunt Agatha was the voice of truth-or doom! It looks like Elizabeth and George are going to be a new power couple. That's just what she is suited for. It's really interesting and scary how much..."Pity disease can't be passed through the toes......:(
Ugh... Whitworth disgusts me. Morwenna is a brave soul to endure him. I’m so glad she was able to stand up to him and gain a reprieve. My heart aches for her and for Drake...so close, and yet, so far.Okay, so this goes back to last season a little, but Ross and Demelza’s struggles are kind of like a train wreck...I just can’t look away. (Haha) After everything, every time Ross mentions loving Elizabeth, I want to smack him upside his head. Like he eventually said, it’s an idealized love. I feel for Demelza’s struggles with him and couldn’t help but feel a little satisfaction when Ross witnessed the connection between his wife and Hugh. Perhaps it will wake him up in time...
I have increasingly come to dislike Elizabeth and now feel that she and George deserve each other.
I disliked Elizabeth from the minute she came to cry to Ross but was a wee bit too late and Demelza had gotten in his bed first. Elizabeth chose to marry Francis for a life of comfort and stability. In the book she's far more annoying. The screenwriter tries to make Elizabeth relatable. She's trying to do what she has to do to secure her sons' futures. George's jealousy is going to destroy their marriage if he doesn't stop being so crazy. He has everything he wanted but persists in trying to destroy Ross for no good reason.
QNPoohBear wrote: "I disliked Elizabeth from the minute she came to cry to Ross but was a wee bit too late and Demelza had gotten in his bed first. Elizabeth chose to marry Francis for a life of comfort and stability..."Obsession. Never healthy.
QNPoohBear: Yes! I’m actually glad to know that she’s more annoying in the book...on the show there has been a rare minute or two where I thought, “okay, she’s not a terrible person, just selfish at times and makes poor choices.” But now...she’s just taken the best deal for her and her son. And I figure she and George deserve each other.Ross...where Love is concerned he just gets in his own way. I understand the first love thing and all, but he’s just an idiot to let it get in the way of his relationship with a good woman who loves him dearly and he claims to love in return. I think he truly does love Demelza, but just. Won’t. Let. Elizabeth. Go.
Ross wants Elizabeth and Demelza for different reasons. I don't blame him for being hurt when he returned from the dead believing his sweetheart was waiting only to find out she was engaged to his weenie cousin. Verity said something to the effect of Poldarks' hearts never forget but I just want to say to him GET OVER HER! She's not worth it. Elizabeth comes across as a vapid doll in the books and she's just an awful person. However, after Ross's midnight visit, I'd be angry too but .... George? He deliberately set out to ruin the Poldarks and possess Elizabeth and she played right into it. After his cousin ruined Francis that should have been the end of their acquaintance. The screenwriter makes the story more romantic but I believe Winston Graham loved his wife very much to model Demelza after her so there's hope for Ross. I'm going to pick up The Angry Tide tomorrow and read it slowly. The books are so slow I read half of The Four Swans before watching Season 3 and it didn't even spoil anything!
I agree, Q&P, I think that Demelza's character certainly seems to have a sharper sense of intuition (or more crassly put, her "BS-meter" is on point). Elizabeth.........well, not sure.........when she first married George, it was obvious that she didn't really want to, but there were no other options, so she made the best of it. And since then, she's been choosing to ignore a lot of what's going on, because Aunt Agatha, her very own Jiminy Cricket, passed away, so no more conscience on her shoulder. Plus, he's been giving her the sedatives, right? Something happened with that this week, but I missed it, because I had looked away for a second. Either he put it in her drink and she went to bed without it? Or she just refused it? Didn't see, but there was something about that laudanum
Elizabeth had postpartum depression last season after Valentine was born. The doctor gave her laudanum- the treatment for EVERYTHING in those days. She takes it when she needs a little help to get through her marriage to George, according to screenwriter Debbie Horsfield. She doesn't want to imply Elizabeth is a drug addict but you don't see Morwenna taking powders and she's the one who ought to be drugged. Elizabeth made her choice and now she has to live with it. I get the impression she didn't enjoy baby making with Francis and that was beginning of problems between them. Her wedding night with George went a little better but she still doesn't enjoy that aspect of married life. Making baby #2 is going to be tough but it will get her back in George's good graces and expand their evil empire.
Monday's a holiday-no school! Poldark season 4 episode 2 here I come! I don't have any other Mondays off but so far I have 3 Tuesdays in which to catch up. I also have The Angry Tide in hand to read along.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Monday's a holiday-no school! Poldark season 4 episode 2 here I come! I don't have any other Mondays off but so far I have 3 Tuesdays in which to catch up. I also have The Angry Tide in hand to rea..."lol, we'll make extra virtual popcorn for ya this week! :D
QNPoohBear and Linda: *thumbs up* :)I can’t wait for this week’s episode...I’ve been binge watching up until now, and I’m missing it!
Nikki wrote: "QNPoohBear and Linda: *thumbs up* :)I can’t wait for this week’s episode...I’ve been binge watching up until now, and I’m missing it!"
We're happy to have larger numbers! It took QandPooh about a year to get on the bandwagon, but now that the wardrobe department has added cravats, she's committed, lol! :P
It just took me time to sit down and watch the show properly and get to the library to read along with the books. I do like the Regency fashions better than Georgian and cravats can be sexy just ask any Austen hero other than Colin Firth's Mr. Darcy.
Leeches, Trepanation and Toes oh my! This episode made my skin crawl in more ways than one. It departed a bit from the end of The Four Swans but not in a bad way. It also cut out some of Sam's conversations with Emma. The good:
The Poldark-Warleggan kids are so cute! It was very sweet when Valentine and Jeremy made friends and horrid of Elizabeth to pull her obviously lonely child away from his new friend/sort of cousin.
Dr. Enys!
The election
Ross and Demelza talking about their feelings again. (HA! Ross now you know how Demelza has felt your entire marriage).
Caroline's sarcastic comments on her big news. And her lavender gown. Gorgeous! Caroline and Demelza's friendship. Adorable and refreshing after Elizabeth's cold-hearted ways.
(What happened to Verity? She hasn't been to visit cousin Ross again and Demelza hasn't been to see her either since that once).
Rowella. She got what she wanted and got back at Ossie but I fear for Morwenna now he knows the truth.
The bad:
Hugh. I find him creepy. His idealized love for Demelza puts a lot of pressure on her and he asks her to betray her marriage vows! It's not all about you dude. I wasn't terribly sad he died.
Dr. Choate. I had to close my eyes. I've never seen leeches squirm like that before. YUCK! Trepanation?! Thank goodness Lord Falmouth had enough sense to stop that in its tracks. Fastest way to kill a patient.
Ossie Whitworth! EW just EW and more EW! He needs to die like right now. His uh woman friend seemed oh so thrilled by him too. Like he better be paying her a LOT of money to put up with him.
The preview for next week: Uh oh! Does Morwenna get locked up in a madhouse? I'm afraid to read the book now. It sounds intense.
The other:
Elizabeth! Apparently NOW she's turned on by her husband when he loses?
New hair colors for Elizabeth and Rowella. Elizabeth seems to be a darker brunette now and Rowella was blond before. Caroline appeared possibly slightly darker blond at the end. Note to hair department: please be consistent. Thank you!
Caroline's "Hedgehog" hairstyle. Can we please hurry up to the Regency styles or cover up the poof with a turban? I like the late Georgian/Regency sausage curl look.
I was annoyed by Ross' hypocrisy, as well. They needed to air things out, and he supposedly came clean with Demelza last episode, but to push her for details....Like you said, now he should know how she's felt.ETA: I grew up on a lake. Bloodsuckers are the reason we willingly helped work on raking the beach every year. The areas that didn't get raked, that were full of muck and dead leaves, and detritus, were full of those things, and you'd come out of the water with them on your feet.
Caroline always has the best clothes and makeup. Always. She's the most put-together character on the show.
I was Ossie to die of hoof and mouth. Quickly.
QNPoohBear and Linda: Yes, yes, yes!It's nice to see Ross' arrogance flipped on its head as he realizes what Demelza's point of view must have felt like all along. I think he finally misses and longs for her closeness and friendship again by asking her to try to connect to him in her pain and loss. I think there is hope for them yet...
Hugh was rather pushy with Demelza, and though I know she's deeply grieved, I think there must be just a small bit of relief for her...just in knowing she won't be further pressured. I think Hugh was genuine, but he should've found a way to let her go out of love for her.
I love Caroline. Her true friendship with Demelza is sweet, and I love the two couples together. Caroline definitely has the best dresses and hats, but her hair is a BIT like a hedgehog, QNPoohBear. Haha!
Dr. Enys is amazing (not to mention dreamy). The alternative treatments for Hugh were horrifying. I was afraid his uncle was going to let that go on to the end.
The election...I'm so glad that Ross won and George has been bested yet again. Ross will genuinely try to better things for all peoples, especially those less fortunate, unlike George, who does only what benefits him and thwarts Ross. But I worry about what this will mean for Ross and Demelza's relationship.
Ossie...blech. Poor Morwenna. Not sure I can add much to that. Yes, I'm afraid of what he'll do to her now that he knows the truth about her sister. Besides that, I wondered from the start how long he'd stay away from her. Yes, he needs to go. And soon.
Oh, but I want him to go quickly, but not quietly. He deserves an interesting death, haha.One thing I found curious.......when George was up for the election, it was assumed that Elizabeth and the fam would accompany him to London.
Why, then, is it assumed that, now that Ross has won the election, Demelza and fam will remain in Cornwall?
Linda: That’s a good point. I was wondering the same...there was no explanation made for why Demelza and the children would not accompany him. I wondered if accommodations were an issue, perhaps?
Nikki wrote: "Linda: That’s a good point. I was wondering the same...there was no explanation made for why Demelza and the children would not accompany him. I wondered if accommodations were an issue, perhaps?"I shouldn't think so......I mean, they sent the coach for him straightaway. Methinks it's a plot device! :D
Linda: Yes, most likely! :)Also: yes, Whitworth must go quickly and in the most despicably appropriate way possible.
I was wondering the same thing about Demelza and the children but perhaps he figured because she's Cornish and not of Society she wouldn't want to go to London. The Angry Tide opens as he returns from his first term in Parliament. Ossie exemplifies so many of the 7 deadly sins: lust, greed, gluttony, pride and it sounds like sloth too. In the book he has two livings, never puts in an appearance at St. Sawle. He was given St. Sawle over the curate who is poor and has a family to support. Ossie wants another wealthy parish since St. Sawle is poor. Ossie's uncle apparently has connections to the Prince of Wales and Ossie keeps using that as leverage. I don't see even George hanging out with Prinny and the Whig crowd, let alone Ross.
Ossie just needs to die now and free Morwenna and George needs to get over his jealousy of the Poldarks. Not everything is about you George.
Verity is coming for a visit in this episode airing tomorrow, according to what my TV tells me. I suppose she's the only one living happily ever after? I guess we'll find out.
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Sooooo............something snuck into my phone last night, and I wasn't able to stop reading before some of it hit my eyes...........I hope you're all watching tonight, because we shall all be very, very happy shortly.But now TNT is advertising "Fright Fest", so I may watch that, if there's a conflict, since Poldark can be caught at other days/times.
Episode 3:As expected, Demelza has been the model wife on the Homefront in Ross' absence, taking care of the home, farm, and mine. I can't imagine being separated for that length of time, but it seems it may have been a good thing for the Poldarks.
Just when I thought George couldn't find any slimier, creepier folks to rub elbows with for his benefit, in walks Adderley. Eww. I'm thinking this acquaintance just may come back to bite him. (I'm hoping, anyway.)
Of COURSE Whitworth manages to pick up information which will not only provide an opportunity for himself, but prove damaging to Ross and likely countless others after he places it in George's hands. Ugh.
What on earth is Rowella playing at? Is she just toying with Whitworth and taking him to the cleaners, or is there more to this twisted game?
*I agree, Marie, that Christian is doing an incredible job playing Ossie's character. But, wow...how repulsive he is.
I'm worried about what ailment Dwight has seen in his infant daughter...and why hasn't he mentioned his concerns? I kept waiting for him to say something.
I'm hoping that Mowenna doesn't lose her son (I'm sure he's her only comfort) and I wonder if Drake will be able to let her go and move on...Demelza is trying to help, but we all know what meddling does... Of course, I'm still holding out hope that Ossie will die in some unexpected, yet welcome way and they may have another chance.
It was wonderful to see Verity again, and...Jeffrey Charles all grown up was quite a shock!
And here's to hoping the mine will get a reprieve...
Marie I agree about Hugh. He was a little creepy in his idolization of Demelza. That wasn't fair to her. Interesting episode. Ross and Demelza are always happiest when they're poor so I expect their marriage will survive even if the mine fails but I feel really bad for the miners and their families. I loved seeing Ross in the House but not when he denounced Wilberforce's bill to end slavery. (Watch the movie "Amazing Grace" if you haven't already). I get that there are a lot of problems at home to deal with but slavery is part of the problem! The rich get rich because of slavery. Are hundreds of kids really dying in the mills from overwork? People ask me every day "how many people died here in the mill? How many kids got hurt?" Kids died on the farm too and kids died in mines. I think mining is worse than textile mills but I'm looking at it from an American perspective and our mill system was different.
OMG was that Vauxhall? Be still my heart! Show me more! It seemed a little too freewheeling for me.
Holy soap opera rapid aging system Geoffrey Charles! Wasn't he like 11 when he got sent off to school? Now he's like 15! He reminded me of Pip from Great Expectations.
Hooray for Regency fashions! Caroline ditched the hedgehog for a more toned down version.
More skinny dipping and Ross strip tease. The Enyes have a baby girl but uh oh the doctor seems worried about something. There's a hint in the first scene of the book. (view spoiler)
I wondered if George was going to buy himself a title but he's working his way up as a commoner first apparently. Look up rotten and pocket boroughs. George is rotten himself and Elizabeth loves being half of a power couple.
NO Ross DO NOT go to Trenwith drunk! Last time you crashed into Trenwith it didn't go well. Um did that man Captain whatever just proposition Elizabeth? His "I'll take whatever ladies are offering" comment made me squirm. Elizabeth gave Ross a look but I'm not sure what that meant. Did he mean what I think he meant? Don't kill the guy?
UGH Ossie UGH! He's such a rat. Rowella is a clever minx but I don't approve of her methods of getting money. Did anyone see Christian Brassington's PBS Masterpiece Instagram takeover? I'm not on Instagram and I can't see where he was answering questions.
I'm over Drake mooning around like Romeo but at least Elizabeth kind of admitted her mistake. I can't see Elizabeth married to Ross though. She couldn't survive the hardships of poverty and Ross's reckless behavior.
It was wonderful to see Verity again. At least she is living happily ever after! so far anyway...
Nikki wrote: "Episode 3:As expected, Demelza has been the model wife on the Homefront in Ross' absence, taking care of the home, farm, and mine. I can't imagine being separated for that length of time, but it s..."
Nooooooo.........hang tight. Drake shouldn't go anywhere just yet! Ossie will get his......
And what's up with Caroline really not noticing anything wrong with her daughter!? It's like she only had the child to keep Dwight happy, and she's over the child already.
And speaking of Dwight, that was just WRONG, having him show up on the beach, just as.............what a bunch of teases! I thought, "Well, there's only 1.5 more seasons, but they're gonna give us what we want in the meantime.....swimming every week!" But, no. Stupid Dwight.
https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/20...
Lol, Jeffrey Charles grew fast, and has a slightly goofy look to him, just as his father did.
So very good to see Verity again!
ETA: Marie, you're gonna get an earful from QandPooh on our mill system and the exploitation of children! She's in her heyday!
Another edit: I thought Marie had made the remark about children, the mills, and slavery. Now I see it was QandPooh getting warmed up! :D Btw, I didn't realize Mrs. Slater had passed....
After meeting Lady Whitworth I understand why Ossie is the way he is. What a nightmare for Morwenna! I don't have a problem with children working in the mill. It's the early part of the school year and already I'm wishing to send many children to work. The 1790s machines aren't that bad but they were breathing in cotton 12h/6d week and it was hot and humid in summer (I HATE it when people insist on touring an 18th century mill in 90 degree heat and humidity) and freezing in winter (equally hate people who come for tours when it's snowing). Ross doesn't seem to have children working in his mine but we know Demelza's brothers went to work in the mines around age 7.
OK I did some research and I guess the machines they had in England were more dangerous than ours. Maybe woolen mills were more dangerous? Gross stories here. I feel like printing them and bringing them with me to threaten the school groups with. More stories about mule scavengers. Ew we have a 20th century version in the museum. I didn't realize the old version was the same thing. OK Ross but there are children working in all industries not just mills.
New preview scene from episode 4. "Will Ossie's secret be exposed? You decide after seeing this scene." My vote is... no. Not from that scene. Elizabeth will see what she wants to see-Rowella indisposed. Rowella is clearly more clever than Ossie.
QNPoohBear: You work in a museum? If so, how awesome! When I took a private tour of the Biltmore house I thought how neat it would be to work in a historical venue or museum like that. Lol at threatening the kids. :D I was I substitute teacher for a short time (a VERY short time) so I get it.
Nikki wrote: "QNPoohBear: You work in a museum? If so, how awesome! When I took a private tour of the Biltmore house I thought how neat it would be to work in a historical venue or museum like that. Lol at threa..."No better museum to threaten little kids like QandPooh's, haha!
Yes I threaten the kids a bit when they need it because children DID get hurt in textile mills and they still do when they're not paying attention! I'm just not sure any kids were injured or killed in OUR particular mill. We're apparently missing a crucial and dangerous machine.Ep. Aw Ross is back and smiling! Yet Dwight is brooding. What's wrong with Sarah? Hm were congenital heart defects even known at that time? This is a very relevant topic, I think perhaps chosen for the show. Comedian and night show host Jimmy Kimmel has been very vocal about his baby son's condition. It took a nurse to see baby Billy was turning blue to discover his problem. Is Dwight that awesome? Let's ask Google... Thomas Bevill Peacock, who hasn't even been born yet at the time of Poldark season 4, was the first to write about it cohesively. It's possible Dwight picked up a few ideas in his travels. I'm going to read the book to find out what Winston Graham chose to kill the baby. In the first chapter Whitworth describes his own son as "strong, handsome, beautiful" unlike the "poor overlooked nashed little creature the Enyses have produced. Thin and weakly of the body, they say, with a head far too big, and it dribbles from the mouth all day long."
EEK danger at the mines! We know Ross survives but I feared for Sam. I think Demelza would never forgive Ross for sending her brother into danger. Sam would say "Nay sister. 'Tis the Lord's plan for I." (Then Demelza curses the day her father met her stepmother and found religion). Dwight also knows CPR. Apparently mouth-to-mouth IS historically accurate.
Ossie gets worse and worse by the minute! He is so despicable. He needs to be locked up in a madhouse if he doesn't die like right now. Seriously. Now both doctors are on to his problem. There was apparently a medical belief that if men didn't have conjugal visits from women/their wives, it would have dire consequences and Thomas Jefferson was preoccupied with that idea, or so said a classmate in their thesis. Dr. Choate can deal with that... Dr. Enys is so disgusted with Ossie and preoccupied in grieving baby Sarah.
I liked the friendship between Ross and Dwight bonding as fathers who lost their firstborn daughters. That was sweet. They react so differently though. I'd rather be married to Dwight. Ross is too reckless and moody. Grieve but don't go crazy and do stupid stuff that will get you arrested or killed!
Caroline's pent up grief is so sad. Did anyone catch the interview with Luke Norris and Gabrielle Wilde on PBS.org? They both have young children and only had to merely think about the grief of losing a beloved child to play those heartbreaking scenes.
I really really hate that Elizabeth is turned on by George's power play moves. Lady, he just spent a fortune on buying his way into parliament, are you not concerned for a)your children's future and b)his morals? George teaching Valentine the worth of coins annoyed me so much. Also, he said "We have our own son to think about." Who's son IS Geoffrey Charles? Elizabeth's OWN son and George's godson. Have we forgotten this, George? He creeps me out in a different way that Ossie.
History in Vogue
Books mentioned in this topic
The Stranger from the Sea (other topics)Frederica (other topics)
A Christmas Carol (other topics)
The Angry Tide (other topics)
The Angry Tide (other topics)
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Discussion thread for Poldark season 4. Just under the gun, if anyone’s interested.