Retro Reads discussion

This thread is for discussion of the book as a whole and you can post open spoilers--just be sure to uncheck the box 'Add to my Update Feed'.

Not really spoilers, but I went info-diving during the early chapters and came up with several non-watch items.

The book's unnamed City is clearly based on Ely--with several authorial modifications, of course. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely,_Ca...
Ely Cathedral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_Cat...) has no great mechanical medieval clock--it has a sundial.
The great Michael clock of the book was obviously inspired by the clock at Wells Cathedral, with its jousting knights
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_C...

I want to say that I enjoyed every minute that I spent following links here and there among the Medieval clocks and Cathedrals. It gave me some deep background info that helped shine a brighter light on parts of the book.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Not really spoilers, but I went info-diving during the early chapters and came up with several non-watch items.

The book's unnamed City is clearly based on Ely--with several authorial modification..."

I’m only on chapter 3, and shouldn’t read spoilers, but I love the links, really helps me visualize the awesome cathedral. Thanks, Barb!

Finished last night, in a flurry of tissues. The last chapter or two really got to me.
What a lovely, old-fashioned book. Still thinking about how to rate it and what to say in a review. Which really means that I'll probably re-read it immediately!

I finished yesterday, and although I'd read it before, I sniffled, too. I really did not want to finish - I could have stayed in the cathedral city for at least another week...

I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. The Dean was musing that Emma was trapped in the past; that Emma lived always " under the shadow of a dark hand", whereas Isaac had managed, at great cost to himself, to break free. "It was better to struggle through life with a broken wing than to have no wings at all.".
Indeed, that whole scene reveals so much about Emma, that I came to agree with the Dean when he realized that she wasn't a monster. I shared his disappointment when she wouldn't admit to burning Job's birds but also understood Emma's reason for not doing so. By the end of the Dean's visit, it seems like Emma's shell is finally cracking, with a new, milder, possibly happier Emma waiting to appear.
Which makes her strong reaction to Job and Polly's kiss so awful--that behavior was a reversion to the 'old' Emma.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. The Dean was musing that Emma was trapped in ..."

That line about struggling through life with a broken wing struck me as particularly beautiful and poignant last night when I read it. But that’s as far as I got! I guess I was hoping too much for some redemption for stunted, miserable Emma, I don’t know if I want to read on...my fault for reading the spoiler thread!

Humanity being what it is, our trust in immediate and final Damascus Road transformations is almost always doomed to be misplaced. Life seems to be a matter of a couple of steps forward and then, as in Emma's case, a mile backwards, but all we can do is hope that our hard-won self-knowledge keeps niggling away at our conceit until the transformation sticks and that's who we've become.

Susan in NC wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. The Dean was musing ..."

You have to finish, simply have to!

Karlyne wrote: "Humanity being what it is, our trust in immediate and final Damascus Road transformations is almost always doomed to be misplaced. Life seems to be a matter of a couple of steps forward and then, a..."

Ooooh, beautiful thought! Let us hope, but you’re right- I’m ever hopeful, which has served me well getting through tough times, but I admit I’m a bit naive about human nature- hubs is my pragmatic other half...

Susan in NC wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. The Dean was musing ..."

Susan, my fault for causing you to doubt. I keep forgetting to uncheck the Update Feed box when I'm here in the spoilers thread!
Oh you must read on, as all becomes Quite Right at the end--but keep the tissues handy. I found it very affecting.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. ..."

No, not your fault, it’s called the spoiler thread for a reason- I couldn’t stop reading if I tried. I’ll be late starting Daughter of Time, but for my first Goudge Read ever, I’m enjoying this one immensely- the characters and the beautiful writing pulled me right in!

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "I was re-reading this and came upon the scene where the Dean has tea with Emma, in that hideous, dark parlor, surrounded by reminders of Emma's father. ..."

I never remember, either...

No, Karlyne, you don’t have to do that for the spoiler thread, my fault for reading ahead and looking at spoilers!

Susan in NC wrote: "No, Karlyne, you don’t have to do that for the spoiler thread, my fault for reading ahead and looking at spoilers!"

Shoot, I rarely even remember what thread I'm in, unless I'm looking specifically for one...

Lol! Me, too.

Ok, now I’m in spoilerland - the reason I’m sorry for Elaine is because even though she’s armored by her beauty, toward the end, after the Dean’s illness, she wants to reach past the barriers she’s erected (her beauty and her supposed frailty) to touch the Dean, but she can’t make him see her - only her beauty. It’s sad.

Susan
Yes, Elaine's realization that she wants to be a wife, rather than an ornament, is very sad. Of course, she had trained him to think of her as frail by claiming a headache or fatigue whenever she was annoyed by him (which was almost all the time!). There's a scene in the book where she is wondering when she stopped owning her beauty and it started owning her that seemed to indicate that she was aware of what she was doing. The Christmas scenes show her trying to break free. When she took his hand as they walked to the Christmas Eve carol service I almost cried.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Susan
Yes, Elaine's realization that she wants to be a wife, rather than an ornament, is very sad. Of course, she had trained him to think of her as frail by claiming a headache or fatigue whenever..."

Me, too, and her visit to Miss Montague at the end was very revealing- and gave me hope for Elaine’s future.

I think with Emma it will always be two steps forward, one step back - such an unhappy person.

Oh, good point, I agree.

The salvation of Elaine was both amazing & believable. I cried like a baby through most of the second half of the book. No one writes about goodness like Goudge does.

And without a scrap of preachiness or priggishness!

Karlyne wrote: "And without a scrap of preachiness or priggishness!"

Yes, the writing is so beautiful and sincere, not at all preachy - that’s what makes older novels so refreshing, I think.

Susan in NC wrote: "Yes, the writing is so beautiful and sincere, not at all preachy - that’s what makes older novels so refreshing, I think."

I've read my fair share of preachy older novels {{shudder}}. I'd say, rather, that's what makes Goudge such a pleasure to read.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Yes, the writing is so beautiful and sincere, not at all preachy - that’s what makes older novels so refreshing, I think."

I've read my fair share of preachy older novels {{shu..."

True!

There are some doozies out there!😁

I finished yesterday and just got to this thread. This was simply a beautiful book and I am so glad that this group introduced me to Elizabeth Goudge and this book. She is definitely on my list of authors to read more by.
These characters and story were so moving. I just loved it. Yes, Barb, I found that scene where Elaine took the Dean's hand so touching. Great writing.

Bobbie wrote: "I finished yesterday and just got to this thread. This was simply a beautiful book and I am so glad that this group introduced me to Elizabeth Goudge and this book. She is definitely on my list of ..."

Me, too - my fist Goudge! Definitely want to read more...