Retro Reads discussion

Carol, as my resident New Zealand friend, can you tell me what Elizabeth Goudge's "mistakes" were in Green Dolphin Street? I've just got to the N.Z. part, and although I Googled it, and found several people who said that there were mistakes, I can't find anyone who said just what they were. I really need to know so that I don't swallow them whole and become a victim of gross ignorance. (I read it decades ago, and although it's a serious masterpiece, the misunderstanding just makes me squirm and I've never re-read it. However, dagnabit! but it's beautiful!)

Karlyne wrote: "Carol, as my resident New Zealand friend, can you tell me what Elizabeth Goudge's "mistakes" were in Green Dolphin Street? I've just got to the N.Z. part, and although I Googled it, and found sever..."

I wish I had time to reread with you Karlyne but I'm on holiday next week & I'm trying to finish 4 books before I go! From memory (view spoiler)[I think some characters marched from one end of the North Island to the other in one day. Does this sound right? (hide spoiler)]

This is a favourite book so I'll try to fit a read of it in when I get home! :)

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "Carol, as my resident New Zealand friend, can you tell me what Elizabeth Goudge's "mistakes" were in Green Dolphin Street? I've just got to the N.Z. part, and although I Googled it,..."

Have fun on your holiday! I'll be on spring break next week, but since I'm stuck on jury duty, I'm a bit sad about losing free time. Oh, well, the weather is supposed to stay fantastic and melt the last foot of snow (although we'll have drifts until Easter, I'm thinking), so I'll make do!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for obvious bloopers as I go along, like the one you mention!

Oh dear! I'll never have to do jury duty, as I live more than 50km from a Courthouse that holds jury trials. In my younger days I did want to. Now - not so much.

I just got called for jury duty too, Karlyne. There are nine different dates I have to check in and see if I am needed, across April and June.

Never really wanted to do it, but I guess I would like to be judged by someone like myself, so I should take part in judging others.

I've been called for jury pools a few times but have never made it onto the jury. For some strange reason (haha) the lawyers never want another lawyer in their jury. Just bring a book along if they're still doing jury selection, Karlyne! The downtime during that process is crazy.

Tadiana, they say no phones, but do you think a kindle would be ok? I would hate to lug around a pile of books when I can fit so many on my teeny kindle...

Hard to say! It depends on the state's or the court's rules. (ETA: Thinking about it, I'd say they're likely to ban any device where you could connect to news on the Internet, though maybe it's just that they don't want the disruption of phone calls.) A true Kindle device may be more acceptable than a multi-use tablet that just has the Kindle app loaded on it.

If you take the Kindle along I'd also pack a (longish) book just in case, and be prepared to take the Kindle back to your car if necessary. (Or maybe they'll be okay if you power it off.)

If you're already on the jury, there may also be downtime during the trial when the judge and lawyers go off to argue some motion that the judge doesn't want the jury to hear.

I've been called and served several times in my vast lifetime, but this time it was for 6 months, because the jury pool is so small! Next week is the last date, so hiphiphooray!

I'm usually "thanked and excused" from jury pools (prosecutors hate me), but I actually was selected for a civil case once, to my astonishment. It's interesting and worthwhile if you can spare the time.

Abigail wrote: "I'm usually "thanked and excused" from jury pools (prosecutors hate me), but I actually was selected for a civil case once, to my astonishment. It's interesting and worthwhile if you can spare the ..."

Why is that? Just wondering. I think I would likely be excused if the case involved children or law enforcement, but I can't think of any other natural or automatic excluders as it were. Besides being a lawyer I guess.

I think a lot of it depends upon the defense and the prosecution both, what they're looking for and what they're willing to take. In our case, it often depends on how many people you have to select from, too. I was surprised that I was selected during the last trial because at that time, a good friend was the sheriff and my son-in-law was in law enforcement, although in a different area. But since neither of them was directly involved in the case, I was selected.

In criminal cases, for example, the lawyers will look for jurors that they think will tend to favor their side, either inclined to be tough on criminals or to be sympathetic to the accused, based on demographics, career, your relatives' jobs, whether you or someone close to you has experienced a similar crime, etc. I'm not a trial attorney but I know there are studies and guides that lawyers look to for guidance in picking jurors.

Perhaps I am too much in love with my own thoughts, Critterbee! It usually doesn't help when they ask about education--they appear to disfavor the Ivies, though in the instance of the civil case I served on, they took three Ivy grads so it must have been considered a bonus. As for prosecutors, when asked if I would give the testimony of law enforcement officers greater weight, I say that I would tend to give it more critical scrutiny because they are trained how to be effective witnesses and because their promotion is in part dependent on number of convictions. I wouldn't disbelieve it per se, but I would be more accepting of the testimony of a disinterested witness.

Then there was the case where I could just tell it was a three-strikes case, even though nobody had said so explicitly. The prosecutor was personal friends with one person who had been accepted for the jury and another jury member was a retired judge from the same court and was insider-chatting with the judge. When it came to my turn, I said I believed it was a three-strikes case and I was categorically opposed to the three-strikes framework and would have great difficulty convicting in that context. Because I said it in open court, they had to throw out the whole jury and start over. The defendant, by the way, was charged with stealing a pizza and faced with life in prison for that!

Then there was the case of lewd conduct in a car in a seamy area of Hollywood. The ONLY complainants were two police officers; no civilian witnesses. The judge got curious about my stated view that this was a no-harm, no-foul scenario and questioned me for a couple of minutes, at which point he said with a broad grin, "So, in short, you think this entire case is a waste of the Court's time!" At least I made his day!

I guess I'm just the juror from hell.

That's so funny, Abigail! I have never been asked about education or profession, and when asked if I'd give greater weight to a policeman's testimony, I just said, "I'd try not to." I've even heard the attorneys ask, "Do you think you can be fair and impartial?" And if the response is, "No", then they ask "Why?" If the prospective juror is uncomfortable speaking about it, they will let them discuss it in private. But I've seen very few people excused. Again, probably because it's such a small pool to pick from!

I was excused when I asked the owner of a building who was being sued by a woman who claimed she was injured when she slipped and fell in front of his building, “Why didn’t you just put down Ice Melt?”

Portia wrote: "I was excused when I asked the owner of a building who was being sued by a woman who claimed she was injured when she slipped and fell in front of his building, “Why didn’t you just put down Ice Me..."

Hahahaha! Court is no place to get all logical and stuff!

Karlyne wrote: "Portia wrote: "I was excused when I asked the owner of a building who was being sued by a woman who claimed she was injured when she slipped and fell in front of his building, “Why didn’t you just ..."

Really!

Abigail wrote: "I guess I'm just the juror from hell."

Not for the defense, lol! Of course, the defense probably would have liked you even better if you'd been a little more cagey about your views. ;)

Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "In criminal cases, for example, the lawyers will look for jurors that they think will tend to favor their side, either inclined to be tough on criminals or to be sympathetic to the accused, based o..."

My father was called for jury duty once and told the judge he wanted to be excused. When the judge asked why, my father said darkly: "Judge not that ye be judged." That was perhaps not the smartest thing to say to a judge! Anyway, he was excused.

Lol, Elinor! That reminds me of when I had to go to traffic court a few years ago, and the judge told all of us offenders that he didn't want to hear any of the standard excuses for speeding (I was in a rush, I almost never speed, I didn't realize how fast I was going, etc.). When my turn came to stand in front of him and he asked if I had any good reasons for speeding, I said, "None that you'd be interested in, your honor." It didn't get me any breaks but I did get a smile.

The defendant, by the way, was charged with stealing a pizza and faced with life in prison for that!

what a miscarriage of justice that would have been!
I'm glad you were able to at least put it off, Abigail.

Love your story, Portia!

And yes, Tadiana, I get your point about being cagier, but I've never been able to do that. I'd love to think it was an excess of honesty, but I fear it's an excess of arrogance.

Elinor, I love your dad's response! Really, what else is there to say?

I ordered several Thirkell's in my last book order because how can I resist $3.99/each? Anyhow, I'm in the middle of August Folly, and I don't know whether she was just in an seriously witty mood, or if all was right with the world, or what it was, but, Oh!MyWord! she has made me snort out loud several times.

I'm so glad I found her here, you all!

Yay! That’s a good one - I’m due for a reread, I think. I just got a used copy of What Did It Mean? In today’s mail - I think the later ones became a bit repetitive, so I look for them as used books.

But a visit to Barsetshire is a guaranteed pick me up!

Susan in NC wrote: "Yay! That’s a good one - I’m due for a reread, I think. I just got a used copy of What Did It Mean? In today’s mail - I think the later ones became a bit repetitive, so I look for them as used book..."

I pretty much only buy used books. I do get some very funny inscriptions; this one says, right after a torn corner on the title page, in large, childish handwriting, "you are a butt nugget". I have a feeling it was a cat, or perhaps a dog, or even a toddler, who tore the corner off. Anyway, it made me laugh.

Karlyne wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Yay! That’s a good one - I’m due for a reread, I think. I just got a used copy of What Did It Mean? In today’s mail - I think the later ones became a bit repetitive, so I look f..."

Me, too!😂

I got my latest used copy through the Amazon Marketplace, and it’s from the secondhand shop at the Bar Harbor, Maine Library - still has the pocket glued in the back, the lending card with the signatures of borrowers - fun! I hope to see Maine someday, but meanwhile a bit has come to me.

I lied. It's Summer Half that is killing me; August Folly was last week...

I would love to get to Maine someday, too, Susan! I can't even imagine all the lobster I could eat. My mind boggles.

Karlyne wrote: "I lied. It's Summer Half that is killing me; August Folly was last week...

I would love to get to Maine someday, too, Susan! I can't even imagine all the lobster I could eat. My mind boggles."

Summer half is very funny, also - Rose is so shattering and annoying (or whatever her oft-repeated word of the moment is)...

I’m just glad, as I read furtheron, that Thirkell actually managed to redeem Rose somewhat from being an absolute airhead (it only took, marriage a few kids, a world war...but she did get better and more bearable!)

Susan in NC wrote: "I’m just glad, as I read furtheron, that Thirkell actually managed to redeem Rose somewhat from being an absolute airhead (it only took, marriage a few kids, a world war...but she did get better an..."

I do remember (I think) Rose from a later book. I wish I'd read them in order, so I think as I finish these "new" ones, which do go in early order, I'll do a bit of re-readings.

I like reading in order as much as possible- it’s like running into o,d friends you haven’t seen in years - “oh, Tony’s married now and has kids? Yikes! I mean, terrific!”

I'm loving that Thirkell absolutely cuts Rose no slack. Except for Kate wanting people to be nice to her so that others don't suffer, the entire cast of characters not only thinks she's ghastly, but they say so! Really refreshing.

Karlyne wrote: "I'm loving that Thirkell absolutely cuts Rose no slack. Except for Kate wanting people to be nice to her so that others don't suffer, the entire cast of characters not only thinks she's ghastly, bu..."

Yes, it’s a guilty pleasure in Thirkell! I wish I could be so honest with ghastly people...

That's the joy of being an eccentric old spinster--you can get away with brutal frankness! (And only occasionally get beaten up for it . . .)

hey, I'm an eccentric old spinster...I should work on the brutal frankness, I don't do that well so far.

Just channel those Thirkell characters! And I was heavily influenced by Lady Bracknell in my youth.

As a crusty old gramma (my family is stuck on that spelling, even though they know better), I can say that if you get in my face with your ghastliness, or, heaven forbid, ask me for advice, you're going to get The Truth. However, as my grandkids, especially, say, "Gramma not only has good ideas, but she can spell them, too." (Arsenic and Old Lace paraphrase)

And the spelling is so important! (Not to mention punctuation--be sure you teach them the difference between "Let's eat, Gramma" and "Let's eat Gramma"!)

I just had a thought! (cue laughter) I've been rather tremendously lucky in that there have been very few really ghastly people in my life. One or two at work, one or two in-laws and a few acquaintances. I have, when I thought it worth it, confronted them, but generally I do just lace up my running shoes.

Abigail wrote: "And the spelling is so important! (Not to mention punctuation--be sure you teach them the difference between "Let's eat, Gramma" and "Let's eat Gramma"!)"

Without a doubt one of my favorites!!!

I'm sure your nature and deportment had a lot to do with the non-ghastliness of your acquaintance! Just look at how Mrs. Pollifax brings out the best in folks--whereas I have a gift for putting up people's backs. Starts with being six feet tall, which does fill many with an obscure unease; but have always been excessively mouthy and frank. It's one reason I cloak my meanings in elaborate Georgian periods.

My face has always had trouble not showing my emotions. I used to hate pictures because I always looked like either a slightly potty Einstein (happy) or King Kong (angry). Except that I'm a modest 5'3". I've learned to school my face into what I think is impassivity, but the steam coming from my ears and the raised eyebrows must give me away. And people do tend to head for the hills... Haha! It's the Hulk syndrome: "you won't like me when I'm angry"...

Also, as I'll bet you've found, when you're willing to confront people with facts head-on they tend to back off. Especially when they're wrong. Which they always are. Duh.

Besides that, I think there's nothing more fun than cloaking a real meaning in niceness (or Georgian periods). After all, it worked for Austen!

Abigail wrote: "And the spelling is so important! (Not to mention punctuation--be sure you teach them the difference between "Let's eat, Gramma" and "Let's eat Gramma"!)"

There's a T-shirt out there that uses that example. The punch line is "Commas Save Lives". I love it!

That's where I stole it from!

Can everyone smell them? I just took two pans of hot cross buns out of the oven. I haven't made them in years, but I woke up thinking it was a good idea!

Yum!

I'll trade you a slice of the lemon-basil cake I just made for my writers group meeting!

Oh, now you all are making me hungry!!