Play Book Tag discussion

This is How It Always Is by Laurie Frankel
4 stars

I was almost disappointed when my RL book club selected this book. Even though it was one of five books I nominated. My last Hello Sunshine book club read was a huge disappointment and I just didn't know if an author could make the story of a young, transgender child feel compelling and accurate at the same time.

I have thoughts below on the accuracy, but I can say that she nailed the compelling aspect.

Rosie Walsh and Penn Adams had a fairy tale meeting and quickly settled into life, bringing four sons into the picture. Rosie always wanted a daughter, but the fifth attempt resulted in a fifth son, Claude. At five years old, Claude insists on wearing dresses. Then want to be a girl and called Poppy. And, Rosie and Penn are amazingly supportive and open-minded; however, the community may not be. Their other sons may not be. Poppy may change her mind. Or maybe she won't. But one thing is clear: the ending is far from easily seen.

I loved this book and was frustrated by it—in a good way—all at once. I loved how supportive Rosie and Penn were of Claude/Poppy without making a big deal of it. They never once made Claude/Poppy seem like she were doing anything brave or unusual or difficult. They just treated Poppy like a child.

I was also frustrated with how supportive Rosie and Penn were of Claude/Poppy. Not that I do not want parents to be supportive, but they seemed completely naive to the fact that Poppy would, in fact, have to learn how to navigate society. They seemed to think that if they loved Poppy that everything would be fine.

And, in a perfect world, wouldn't that be great?! If no one cared what you wore or how you looked. If you were a man or a woman or a transgender or even completely unidentifiable. But, that is not where our society is yet, and some of the things Penn and Rosie did just made me frustrated.

But, Rosie and Penn had many realistic fears and concerns and questions. Fears that by supporting Poppy they were setting her on an unimaginably difficult life path. Fears that if they forced her to be Claude that her life path may technically be easier but her personal happiness would be lacking. What about puberty? What about sex? What about their other children?

Ever since Susie and I had a conversation about how she did not like Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine because it oversimplified Asperger's and mental health issues, I keep thinking through that lens. Did this book oversimplify the struggles a small child, her parents, and her siblings go through when the child is transgender? Yes, probably. Though Laurie Frankel has a child that is transgender, so I would think that this would be fairly well rooted in her experience.

But, I always come back to the same question: Even if this oversimplified the struggles, concerns, challenges with being transgender or have a young transgender child, does it matter? Obviously if my research and learning sopped with this single book then I think it would matter greatly. Instead, this book has given me insight to something I did not really think much of before. At least not in intricate details. And that, I think, is extremely valuable.

I have a work colleague who I have known a long time who has a transgender son. This gives me a new appreciation for how supportive she is of her son and the unspoken fears and concerns that must float beneath the surface all of the time. I also, dare I say, will make me a little more cognizant of how I should ask about her son or refer to her son.

This review is super long so I will just end on this: the ending of the book went a little off the rails for me, the ending occurred just when I wanted even more story, and the audio was very well done. And I did not even get the chance to talk about my love of the made up fairy tale Penn told his children throughout their lives or how much I loved all of the sons.

Too much to talk about!

I’m coming back to this when I find myself in front of a keyboard. Too much to say on my iPhone!

Hello Sunshine had me sceptical too. I don't know why, but I always think the books are going to be too fluffy for my liking. I think that was what initially put me off too, but on a whim I decided to use my Audible credit to buy it, and I'm really glad I did. Nicole, you and I gave it the same rating, and also had very similar thoughts.

I felt as though Penn and Rosie's initial reaction was a little too neat, a little too picture perfect. Did you get that vibe? There didn't seem to be enough anguish and turmoil. In the same circumstances I would definitely have come to the same conclusions as them, but I feel as though it would be a bit more messy. I'd really love to discuss it with someone who has been in the situation that this family found themselves in, to get a real life viewpoint.

BUT, I am soooo glad that I read it and loved so much about it. Like you say Nicole, if it did oversimplify, if anything it also got us thinking about something we weren't thinking about before, so what of it?

What I did love about it was that I was constantly nodding and recognising parallels between what it was like for us when our son was diagnosed, and what it was like for Rosie/Penn/Poppy & co. It did such a good job of portraying what it is like to parent a child who is so obviously different from their peers. I became teary many a time while listening to it.

The Thailand narrative threw the book off course a little for me. I felt as though it detracted from the point of the novel, and we could have done without it without damaging the overall effectiveness. It went from a five to a four because of Thailand!

Overall I thought it was an engrossing, thought provoking, important novel, and I recommend it.

Oh, and Penn! How amazing was Penn! I kinda fell in love with him a little bit to be honest. The narrative did a great job of his voice.

Oh, and another train of thought I had while reading this was how much more accepting society is of a girl that wants to dress as a boy, versus the reverse. It's cool to be 'tomboy'. God I hate that label.

But then this also got me to thinking that I actually do know someone who is living this. As I mentioned in my review, our eight year old neice has dressed in boys clothes (whatever they are), had a boy's haircut (whatever that is), and preferred boy's activities (whatever they are) since she was about three years old. Everyone is totally accepting of it, BUT there are always discussions about when she'll grow out of it, when she'll stop being a 'tomboy', when she'll feel uncomfortable enough to go back to her 'normal' self. I haven't had a deep discussion with her parents about it, so I don't know if Ellie has identified as male, or what the intricacies of the situation are. Time will tell.

I agree on the Thailand narrative. While I liked the overall message of that section, it just didn’t fit for me.

I agree that in real life, I think it would be messier. It would not be as straight forward of a response from the parents. That would have easily made this book 600 pages though!

I loved Penn. And one of the reactions I found most genuine (though misguided) and most heartbreaking was that Penn wanted to make Poppy a girl permanently. As much as Penn loved Poppy and supported her, Penn still fell into the male/female dichotomy and thought Poppy should fully commit to being a female. Of course he did not force that on his daughter, but I just thought it was a very real reaction that came from a place of love and hating to see his child hurt, even though it was not a good choice.

The other thing I liked was that the author made Poppy 5. On one hand, Poppy was “5” but really acted much more mature. Like more than just precocious. But, I think the age allowed the author to separate transgender from sexuality. Was Poppy gay? Was Poppy straight? Was Poppy bi? I think transgender issues are often tied to sexuality and really they are separate. I really like that Frankel was able to separate them and focus on just transgender issues.

Oh! And I can totally see the parallels with Ollie for you. I cannot imagine how heartbreaking it is to have a child that you love and support and think is amazing, and then have to send them into society which can be harsh and mean. But you have to.

How have Ollie’s peers handled him at school? Are they pretty supportive?

I also thought Frankel had a point that kids that are young are pretty forgiving, while the parents of those other kids can often be the most problematic!

And the teenage years are a while other story. Teenagers suck.

And totally agree that society is less accepting of a male-to-Female transgender.

As I mentioned, my colleague’s child is female-to-male which may make it easier from the society aspect. But, it does not make it easier from the personal side.

Her son is young—probably 10 by now—and suffers from depression. He goes to counseling several times a week and it is hard. He goes to a very progressive school that seems to be very supportive, but that school only goes through 8th grade so he’ll have to go to public high school eventually. And, while his mom is supportive, his dad is very much less so.

I want to ask my colleague about it now, but I feel like that is rude. We have known each other for over a decade—since before her son was born—but we really are just friends at work. I would love to get her take on the book. I think she would shred it for its oversimplification. Even if you are a loving and supportive parent, it seems so much more complicated than this.

It is so true about gender vs sexuality, and I was grateful that it never wandered into a book about sexuality. As you say, they are seperate issues.

There was a line in the book about knowing that you are the best person to care and nuture for your child, but knowing that you need to send them out in to the world regardless. It is so true. It would be so easy to keep Ollie in our little bubble, but it wouldn't be the right thing to do, for him or for us.

Ollie goes to an autism specific school, so all of his peers are just like him. He comes to Will's school with me regularly and the students there are part super supportive and nurturing, part freaked out and unsure and wary. Ollie is quite tactile, and he likes to give people he's never met before random hugs. It can be confronting! We are working on handshakes and high fives instead of passionate embraces!!!

I agree that on the whole kids are very forgiving and willing to accept differences. My experience is that the ones that are not are the ones who have been parented by ignorant and single minded people!

The teenage years TERRIFY me!

It's so sad to hear of a ten year old suffering from depression. I hope for them that he is able to find a school where he can be free to be him.

Ahhh, I did not realize Ollie went to a special school, I thought he was in special classes at school. Though I should have realized because you recently raised money for his school! My brain just didn’t make all of the connections!

I want a hug from Ollie! Lol. But high fives and handshakes are good too.

I really do feel like middle school and high school are these horrible dark years from a society point of view. Elementary school kids are fairly understanding and, really, the general rule in adulthood has been support and understanding of people who are different. But middle school and high school is like the Hunger Games. Ugh, I even enjoyed these years. Probably because I was “normal”—I use that word a bit ironically—and fairly popular but i distinctly remember horrible people. And I look back and wish I would have stood up for more people, been less passive when I saw people being mean to others.

You have to help me! Middle school is what age range? We have primary school which is 4-5 until 11-12, and then secondary school until 17-18. I agree with the Hunger Games analogy! I think about myself at that age. I am an incredibly compassionate adult, but I wasn't a nice teenager. I was never overtly mean to anyone who was different, but I completely ignored them. I was too busy being cool. If I was like that, imagine what people who are horrible adults were like as teens! I wish I cared more back then.

Ha! Cultural differences 😉

Middle school is like 12-14 and high school is 14-18.

I agree with you totally. I wasn’t necessarily mean in high school, I was just ignored everything that wasn’t in my little bubble. I was ignorant.

And part of that was self-preservation. I enjoyed a nominal level of popularity which protected me from being picked on, made fun of, and otherwise ridiculed by my peers. But if I would have been friends with the kid that didn’t fit the mold for some reason then I would have been opening myself up to ridicule.

And I had a broad range of friends, particularly in the nerd set. But even those people all pretty much fit the normal mold.

I look back now and think of all the things I could have done differently, even though I was probably among one of the nicer more compassionate kids in my class.

It will be interesting to see what Will is going to be like as a teenager, given that he has a brother who is different. He is ten now and is incredibly accepting and inclusive. He's also very well liked. He'd be classified as one of the cool kids at school. He has long hair, he's good at sport, he plays the guitar, he's taller and more athletic than most. He's also very smart. It could go either way in his teenage years. Watch this space!

I think it is kids like Will who really change the dialogue! I think he will be smart, athletic, and popular as well as kind and compassionate. And he’ll have the tools to inspire others to be more compassionate too!

He seems like a great kid and I thought of him often when reading about Poppy’s brothers. Especially Ben who I think was the most tender-hearted and supportive in kind of a weird sibling way! Lol

I think you might be right about him. He tells me off when I'm having days where I'm less patient. He says things like 'Mum, you know Ollie's autistic. He can't help it.' Bless him.

Weren't the siblings wonderful?

I really must go to sleep but this discussion is just so fun!

Just wanted to say that reading through this discussion has been fabulous. I have so many things to say, even if it is late.

I gave this 5-stars, but more for the emotional connection of the characters, and topic being brought into the forefront of a major book. The flaw you guys saw- I totally agree- for me the whole book felt a little too "bow tied on tight". Everything was convenient. Even the hardship was in a sense convenient to the plot movement.

I also feel like even if this over-simplifies transgender children, delving too far deep into the subject may turn off readers. I assume those who don't agree with us on the subject of gender fluidity probably won't read this to begin with. But this book is still very accessible to those who are curious on the subject, want to learn, or a "beginner". And that I appreciate.

I'm definitely curious about Eleanor Oliphant. I wanted to read that anyway, but now I want to go read your reviews first.

On the subject of autistic children- one of my friends has a 9 year old, a 6 year old autistic boy, and a 1 year old. It's so heartwarming to see how inclusive the oldest and her friends are. Her oldest is a spitefire, and even asked a boy to the school dance this year- so I think she's pretty "progressive". I also see the hardship of raising an autistic son. Facebook posts reaching out to find maroon colored shirts because that is all he will wear, having him literally run off at the park, so many aspects. Being friends with this family has really shown me both sides of the spectrum (no pun intended), as well as the strength it takes to be a mother.

#endofnovel

I love the late chime in, Joi! Especially as my book club meets Tuesday to talk about this, so it gets me thinking about the book again.

I totally agree with your thought that it is accessible for a "beginner" learning about transgender issues. In that sense, it kind of reminded me of The Hate U Give. Both books were "simplified" stories of emotional, timely "things" that are not well understood, and both served to raise the social awareness and start a dialogue.

I cannot overstate how important that is.

I do think you can "simplify" something while still staying true to the issue. Not everything has to be a 1000 page treatise.

And how great that your friend's oldest is so inclusive! That is how it should be. And, gives me a bit of hope for the future that these children today are being raised differently and to look at things in a less biased way. I know so many wonderful children and can't wait to see what they do!

For my sake, I hope they save medicare/medicaid. lol

I agree completely about sometimes things are not as easy as a book or novel would have us believe. I certainly feel that way about therapeutic recovery, it’s for sure about parental acceptance. And my issue with Elinor Oliphant which marched Susie’s, was not that the issue was oversimplified, it’s that the diagnosis and profile underwent a complete shift as the plot wore on. And of course, such as shift would have been completely impossible.

Nicole R wrote: "I do think you can "simplify" something while still staying true to the issue. Not everything has to be a 1000 page treatise. "

What a great conversion topic. There are so many ways this can go. This reminds me of conversations I've had about Small Great Things also- which was deemed about racism, but moreso (IMHO) about microaggression, and privilege. One one side- YES we need more books shedding light on these issues. But on the other side- did that book do these topics justice? I have an friend who absolutely hated Small Great Things, and for her the "things that were wrong" did not outweigh the attempt to bring topics to the forefront.

Another book that people deemed unbelievable, similar to this one, and similar it sounds like to Elinor Oliphant.

I'm sensing a trend....

I felt the same about Small Great Things too. There were too many things in it that were implausible. Academic kids don’t turn in to gangsters overnight, lawyers don’t become buddies with their clients, my list goes on and on. It just didn’t work for me at all.