Play Book Tag discussion
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A Ladder to the Sky
2016-19 Activities & Challenges
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Buddy Read Discussion-Ladder to the Sky
Thank you for starting the thread! I’m in and super excited! This month, I am tag first, then Trim. So I am like two weeks off. Can’t wait to share this with you guys!
OK in that case I'll hold off a little. I have two books for local bookclubs (action&adventure) to read by Jan 10, as well as a few chapters of Pillars of the Earth. I'll check back around by the 11th if not before. I might save my Iraq book for last.
I’m looking forward to following this thread. I’ve read the book already but I’m keen to see the discussion unfold. No spoilers. Promise.
I'm in. I'm finishing up another book, and then I'll be ready for this one.
Picked up this morning from the library - now that I am home. Let me tell you friends, it’s only a certain kind of gal, and I know you all can relate, who heads to the library before picking up the mail, CVS, gas, and coffee. Seriously though, the library was closest after dropping off my oldest late at the high school. But still, it’s funny.
Now hanging out at Starbucks - coffee last, to enjoy a little Tearling Time before I finish unpacking and managing my life. Happy New Year to all.
Hey, I would have been at the library as soon as it opened today if I could (hubby's car was totaled, so he took mine today). I have 6 books waiting for me there.Did you know that new cars no longer have CD players?? With all the free audio books on CD at the library, it's too soon to brand them obsolete. CDs are less distracting and safer than fiddling with a phone while driving.
Amy wrote: "Picked up this morning from the library - now that I am home. Let me tell you friends, it’s only a certain kind of gal, and I know you all can relate, who heads to the library before picking up the..."I can relate Amy and Nancy-I spent 1/2 day at my library on New Years Eve.....
Nancy, do you get audiobooks from the library online on your phone? Either that or you can upload them to your phone from CD via your computer, unless you have a newer laptop in which case it won’t have a DVD drive either!
Love it, Amy! Yes, I can relate very well! Looking forward to reading this, and to the discussion. I’m just working through my first tag book before I pick it up, so it looks like I’ll time in with the rest of you :)
Isn’t it funny that we are all doing tag first, then Trim, then horizons!
Susie wrote: "Nancy, do you get audiobooks from the library online on your phone? Either that or you can upload them to your phone from CD via your computer, unless you have a newer laptop in which case it won’t..."You're right, when my new laptop didn't have a CD player, I had to buy an external CD drive to load books into itunes and put them on my old (probably now obsolete) ipod. With updates and changes, I can't get any of that to work anymore.
The library lending periods for electronic files are short, so I should investigate a way to save them permanently to my computer, a program, phone, etc. Any suggestions? I now listen or read electronic files on my computer, but I assumed there are controls in there to prevent us from saving them permanently.
I still prefer listening to the CD in the car for safety reasons. I can pop it in, pause, rewind or eject without really looking at it. If I use my phone, I need to put on my reading glasses and go through a bunch of a screens and motions to put the book on, and more steps to pause, etc. Too many steps, too distracting when I'm driving alone.
We test drove the new Prius Prime and the navigation screen was HUGE. They should give their sales rep a course on how to use all of the tech and safety features. It seems like all the money went to tech we wouldn't use. I would have rather had passenger side power seats with lumbar support.
My cell phone just died, so I'm listening to Pillars of the Earth via a CD player next to my bed. It's nice if I fall asleep, because it won't go too far ahead.
Yes, you are right that you can’t permanently save them. The borrowing period is quite short, isn’t it? And you can’t renew if someone has it reserved. Modern problems huh?
Amy wrote: "Isn’t it funny that we are all doing tag first, then Trim, then horizons!"That's exactly my plan. And I also have a book I'm trying to finish from December and a book out from NetGalley that must be finished and reviewed before 1/15. Ack!
NancyJ wrote: "Hey, I would have been at the library as soon as it opened today if I could (hubby's car was totaled, so he took mine today). I have 6 books waiting for me there.Did you know that new cars no lon..."
I just bought a car, but it is 2015 so still has a CD player. Just in case. I still have some music CDs that I enjoy . . .
Anita wrote: "Amy wrote: "Isn’t it funny that we are all doing tag first, then Trim, then horizons!"That's exactly my plan. And I also have a book I'm trying to finish from December and a book out from NetGall..."
That was my plan as well, but first finish the book I started December 31, tag, trim and horizons.
I did a sort of horizons last year and read plenty of books, so I know I will read them, as I get more impulsive, I may put horizons first.
I finished part one which was good, but it was what I expected from the blurbs. This is where the ambitious Maurice first got started. There are three parts with extra interludes.I'm now up to the Interlude at Gore Vidal's Amalfi coast mansion, which shows that Maurice is moving up in the world. Gore Vidal seems like a really interesting character. Wasn't there a great bio written about him years ago? Now it's got me wondering if any of these stories are inspired by actual books in the past.
Added: I started reading part two, and I don't really like the writing style in this section. It's basically a women telling a very long story to her husband about things that he mostly already knows about. The narrator on the audio uses a matter of fact tone and relatively pleasant tone, but if I were reading the words, I might imagine a more negative (whiny or accusatory) tone of voice.
How is everyone doing with this? I just finished another book and I restarted part two. I'm enjoying it much more now. I like the way the character is building the story.
I am still # 2 on my Library wait list-someone has it over due since the 1st if the month! I am not a stickler for keeping a book 2-3 even 4 days! But over a week-!!! That's just rude when you know someone is waiting for it(My library lets you know someone is waiting)!!! Well enough of that rant-I am going to give it some more time before I go looking elsewhere............
I'm almost finished with Part 1. I love the book. I love/hate the characters. I feel sympathy while still being appalled at some of the choices made. I love how Boyne doesn't shy away from showing terrible flaws in his characters, but depicts them in such a way that I'm still rooting for them.
I've finished Part 1 and am in the first Interlude. I agree with Sue - I'm fascinated by who I end up feeling sympathetic to (and given that person's actions, it's the person I'd least expect!) I'll be interested to see if I end up by taking a more nuanced view of other people, as the novel progresses, or if they prove to be unrelentingly foul...
Joanne wrote: "I am still # 2 on my Library wait list-someone has it over due since the 1st if the month! I am not a stickler for keeping a book 2-3 even 4 days! But over a week-!!! That's just rude when you know..."I don't expect people to return books faster than 7 days but that's partly because I'm accustomed to reading older books that I can keep out for 3 weeks before renewing.
One day, three of the electronic books I requested popped up at the same time, I tried to renew the one I knew I wouldn't get to in time, but the system wouldn't let me. (I still don't know why.) They all automatically get returned in 7 days. I rarely turn books around faster than that anyway, especially since it's hard to predict when the books will be available.
Read just 10% and I am captivated and engrossed!
Once I got to the half way point this book became very hard to put down.
Finished, and loved it. I laughed out loud at the end ... I’ll wait till others have finished before posting a review. I’m dithering between 4 and 5 stars, but I think the last couple of sections will probably push it to 5 :)
Just finished part one! I think I’ll be done by tomorrow for sure. Completely engaged!
Part two had an OMG ending!Added: So did part three!!! I listened to the audio when I went to bed, and reset it each time I woke up. It should be deep in my unconscious by now. (Wouldn't it be great if we could absorb books while we slept?) I think I caught it all, but I'll have to check key sections. Awesome book. I'm between a 4 and 5 at this point.
For those who read a print version, how would you describe Edith's personality? I can't help but wonder if I would have a different impression of her if I read it compared to the audio. Based on the words, I think I would have expected Maurice to sound more charming, but that might be a halo effect because he was described as so good looking. (People were charmed by his looks, not his personality.) I think the audio performer probably got it right in making him sound apathetic, snarky, or sarcastic at various times.
I'm really annoyed by what happened to Robert. The system should work better than that. A good tech person should have been able to see how and when those files got into his computer, and whether they were accessed.
Just hit 60%! Already the review forms in my mind, while the story is still unfolding! Completely engaging! Totally absorbing. Might likely finish it today.
NancyJ wrote: "For those who read a print version, how would you describe Edith's personality? I can't help but wonder if I would have a different impression of her if I read it compared to the audio. Based on ..."
I thought that about Robert also.
Just started Part 3. So far, the Gore Vidal interval has been my favorite part.Really loving this book!
Man, can this author write! This book is is captivating and engrossing like John Boyne's other works. But this one is more psychological in style and structure than The Hearts Invisible Furies. Rather than a deeply entwined plot and complex relationships and humor, we have as the plot, and inherently sociopathic character, who captivates, entrances, then destroys everyone around them. The result is devastating, and even while you know it is happening around you, you continue to gasp as you are watching the fallout. It is undoubtably upsetting to watch the main character operate as he does. As the story progresses, one comes to understand more about the enigmatic main character.I am one who hates to give spoilers of any kind, as I think a book should unfold as an experience for each person. But I will say this much about just a few themes. I found it interesting that two themes we have been recently talking about in my main group on Goodreads is 1) Can you like a book where the main character or characters in general are basically unlikeable? 2) If it is discoverable or known that an author has certain past actions or political leanings, would you eschew a book based on that knowledge? Can a book be great and worth reading, even if the author has undesirable political beliefs? Is good writing separate from an author?
As readers, and some of us aspiring writers, we love books about bookstores, libraries, writing, publishing, and this one is no exception! It poses through its story quite a lot of questions about what does it mean to take someone else's story and make it fiction? Whose story is it? Is an idea owned? I mean this separate from morality, in a lighter shade? What is the cost of ambition and exceptional talent? And how different is the line between how one narrates their life with the stories they tell, the stories they live, and the stories they write? Are all the stories we write in some way a reflection of us, our unconscious, a shade of our own experience? I have often thought, as a psychologist who works with creative professionals, that you can certainly experience any creative work, a play, a song, a piece of art, as a part of someone's unconscious process, much like a dream. Its hard to separate the storyteller from the story. In that vein, I ask the question about the main character's ambivalent desire to tell his own story, and what that is about? Would it have been a story worth reading? In essence it was the story we all just read.
Remaining questions I have, for those few discussing this book together include.... How interesting the writing style was in the second part of the book, where the narrator chose to write as if she were telling the tale entirely to the the main character, and not to the reader. What is the function of that, and how does that vehicle help to further the story in an uncanny way. I also thought the use of multiple narrators, that doesn't get us to the point of view of the main character until far later in the book also chose to be a function and vehicle of furthering the story. I thought it worked extremely well, and helped underscore the issue of voice and "whose voice" in the story. I was curious about those who discover the charlatan's ruse, versus those who are entranced, and even they appear to know exactly what's happening - and in some cases simply accept it. As punishment for a few? As youth, or talent for others. And those who are unwilling to accept it - well for that you have to read the book. All the while hating and gasping at the main character, one is loving the twists and turns of what will happen, as well as the shades of the world of writing and stories. This is a book for readers like us. I did love it! I think it will stay with me for quite some time.
I was so upset about Robert! Even more than Edith in a way. I couldn't move after that part ended. I had planned to pause there and go on with my day, but I was so upset, I had to start the next session, just to be able to move on! Narcissism at its finest - Rebecca too knows how to spin a tale to even make herself sound moral. She was completely the female Maurice. Interesting given how much Maurice wanted to be a father. That even fatherhood can be a story stolen.
Just finished reading today and I gave it 5*sI've put a few of my comments in spoilers so I don't ruin the story for anyone else.
The writing was great. The story follows a character, Maurice, who's ambition results in sociopathic behavior (or maybe being a sociopath leads to the overwhelming ambition and sense of entitlement?)
I loved Amy's points about the multiple narrators. (view spoiler)
The Interlude with Gore Vidal remains my favorite part of the book. Gore seems to be the only person to see through Maurice. I do wonder if Maurice reminded Gore of himself at some point in his life, which informed his perceptions?
(view spoiler)
I am so happy to have read this book. The author is amazing - to create such a compelling book, while presenting a thoroughly dispicable main character takes tremendous skill.
SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!I really enjoyed this book. I think that it's brilliant and original. There are many things I really loved about the book. There are some issues though that nag at me enough to make it hard to give the book 5 stars.
The structure of the book is really interesting and cleverly done. The interludes were both really cool too. I think one of my favorite things about the structure is the connection between Erich's need to tell his secret (in part one) and Maurice's need to tell his (in part three). It seemed stupid at first. Why would you tell your deepest darkest secrets to a writer of all people? It was self-destructive, but when I think about it, it makes sense. Both men felt old, depressed, their work no longer engaged them, and they had few people in their lives. All this makes it easier for old memories and guilt to surface. Depression and a conscience can make people do self-destructive things. (view spoiler)
Confession is good for the soul, right? Research in cognitive psychology suggests that there is a neurological reason why people DO feel better when they confess something or talk about their problems out loud. Both men welcomed the contact with the younger men in their lives (for different reasons) and telling the story was a way to keep the younger man coming back.
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I didn't like the author's approach to part two at first (it seemed to violate the 'show don't tell' advice given to writers), but once I got used to it, I did enjoy the story and the tone of the narration. I was listening at this point, not reading, so I'm curious how other people "heard" Edith's tone or personality while they were reading that section. It was more upbeat than I would have imagined it. Still, I really liked the narrator of this part of the book, and I'll look for her when I choose other audio books. If you imagine that she is telling the story (to Maurice) in her head, after the fact (view spoiler), I would expect her tone to be less matter of fact, and more emotional, bitter, shocked, etc. especially at the end. (view spoiler)
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What I liked least:
There is something troubling about the way Maurice's various sins are presented in the book as being somehow equivalent. In at least two places, characters used words like sociopath and psychopath to describe someone who would steal a plot idea from someone else's life or story. I do think Maurice is a sociopath, but not for that. I just can't equate that with the truly sinful things he did.
Putting his name on someone else's book is clearly plagiarism. Taking ideas from submitted stories and turning them into a full book is not. (Though it's certainly slimy behavior for an editor to do it on purpose.) Many writers are constantly getting ideas by reading other stories and books, without even realizing later where they came from. There are only so many stories or basic plot ideas in the world. (An article once listed only 11.) It's the details, language, characters, structure, symbolism, emotional connections, etc. that turn a plot into a book. That all requires imagination, talent and hard work. Maurice would have to use his imagination to write all the details, dialogue, actions, etc. to turn a story into a good book (which he did).
When he decided to put his name on Edith's book, I thought that was a huge leap. Nothing else he did seemed to indicate that he was deluded enough to think that he could persuade her to go along with it, or that he anticipated (or planned) the "solution" to his problem. But I guess a true sociopath would think that it could work, particularly if he DID plan what would happen next.
Near the end, Theo talks about how he analyzed the books to look for similarities, such as writing about character's eyes. I thought that was interesting, though I think there are other methods, and even software that can be used to find similarities in writing style. (Didn't they do that with the Unibomber case years ago?) I think it would be easy to get an indication that two books were written by different authors just based on the frequency of certain words, phrases and punctuation. If I submitted a story without parentheses (I noticed I use them a lot), or the word "lot," and no split infinitives, you could guess that I probably didn't write it.
How did everyone like the ending? (view spoiler)
I loved the progression from third to second to first person - seeing Maurice from a variety of angles including finally his own. There’s a very clever circularity to the pattern of the narrative too, which Maurice himself recognises even though he can’t (or quite probably doesn’t want to) resist it. Edith’s narrative seems very straightforward and neutral but its true tone only becomes apparent towards the end of that section - I think if you read it again once you know what happens, you have a completely different tone in your head. That trick doesn’t work on audio of course - it still sounds the same when you replay it.
I literally gasped at some parts - I slammed the book down at the end of part 2, and had to regroup before I could go on. I did something similar in part 3.
There are definitely parts where you have to suspend disbelief, because there’s no way that someone would get away with things that were described. They bothered me occasionally but eventually I decided that I didn’t mind. And the end just made me laugh - it was so deliberately silly. The Robert issue niggled me a lot though, not just because there were holes in the technical stuff but because I couldn’t see that what happened to him added anything to the story.
UGH! Still waiting on my copy from the Library-hopefully this week-just skimming all your comments right now...
Joanne wrote: "UGH! Still waiting on my copy from the Library-hopefully this week-just skimming all your comments right now..."Joanne, in my book club last week, one couple told us that they use their son's library card number and password (he lives in LA) to access ebooks that they can't get in our community. I learned that anyone who lives in New York State is allowed to get a library card for the New York City library system! As soon as I fix my scanner (to send a copy of my ID), I'm going to apply for a card. You might have similar options.
NancyJ wrote: "Joanne wrote: "UGH! Still waiting on my copy from the Library-hopefully this week-just skimming all your comments right now..."Joanne, in my book club last week, one couple told us that they use ..."
I am so old school...just cannot get use to e-reading-I love the comfort of a book. I was looking at the rules for this challenge, if by some chance I do not get it in time(I will track that woman down trust me!), are we able to make up at the end of the year for less points? I did not see it anywhere.
It's not yet 2 weeks late and my fav librarian had promised to personally call her once it is, so there is still hope
My library has a seven day speed read. Perfect for Joannes troubles. If only....
Amy wrote: "My library has a seven day speed read. Perfect for Joannes troubles. If only...."How does that work? My library is always looking for new ways and ideas. We have a "Lucky Day" shelf, where they place new books, however you can only keep them a max of 10 days-over ten days and it's a $1 a day late fee(in replacement of the normals .15)
There are a lot of new releases you can’t get easily, because they’re in such high demand. But our library has a whole slew of new releases that you can borrow for a seven day period, the seven day speed read. For example, My friend wanted to read the clockmakers daughter for our upcoming book group. And she can’t get it at the library. But I picked it up for her and the seven day read section and it was sitting right there! As it turns out I returned it to the seven day rates, because my own hardcopy came in the mail and I lent it to her. But the point is if you have a book club book or a challenge, there is a way to get your hands on a pop it up quickly as long as she return it quickly. I think it’s like a serious fine if you don’t. Like you really have to return the darn thing within the seven days. Anyway, that’s a way of managing that at our local library.
JoAnne, from Nicole’s original post announcing the PBT challenges, it looks like you can still get the 3 points for reading the book even if you have to complete later because the library doesn’t come through in time. You just can’t count it for the extra ‘also fits the monthly tag’ points (not that this book fits anyhow) or ‘longest book in the month’. But it definitely still counts towards the quarterly page length part of the challenge (and for most pages over the year), so you’re in the hunt for those points. And you can still get the usual points for posting in the monthly folders. Plus you’ve knocked one off the TBR and it counts towards your personal challenge anyhow, yes?I really hope the library book comes in time though. Must be getting so frustrating. If I had a paper copy, I’d mail it to you but I read it as an ebook and I can’t figure out how to gift it to you (I know you don’t like ebooks though)
Amy wrote: "There are a lot of new releases you can’t get easily, because they’re in such high demand. But our library has a whole slew of new releases that you can borrow for a seven day period, the seven day..."I like the $1 late fee for new books. It helps keep them moving!
In my library all new books circulate for only 7 days, and you can renew as long as no one is waiting. Popular books remain "new" for a certain amount of time, then they are called "nearly new" and they circulate for 3 weeks. There is a special set of shelves for "new" (7 day) and "nearly new" (3 weeks). But some books are so popular they never make it to the shelf at all, because whoever is next on the wait list gets an email to tell them their hold is ready. If you don't pick up your hold on time, you get a $.50 fine (the normal late fee is $.25.) They give you 7 days to pick up your book, which is nice for people who travel a lot, but it slows down circulation of the really popular books.
KateNZ wrote: "JoAnne, from Nicole’s original post announcing the PBT challenges, it looks like you can still get the 3 points for reading the book even if you have to complete later because the library doesn’t c..."Thanks Kate-fingers are crossed I get it before the month is out-
I just hope this rude patron had not lost it or destroyed it-It is not that long and I am fast reader-
Amy wrote: "Man, can this author write! This book is is captivating and engrossing like John Boyne's other works. But this one is more psychological in style and structure than The Hearts Invisible Furies. Rat..."Great questions! This book more than others make me really curious about the author's experiences in life and in his field. Has he seen characters like Erich or Maurice, or others? Has he taken advantage of other's ideas, or has he fantasized about it when facing writer's block? Has he been ripped off or betrayed by other writers? I can imagine him using thought exercises to develop the story, asking what if....?
I just finished this book yesterday and spent some time this morning reading through everyone's comments! I absolutely loved the book. I hated/loved Maurice.All of your insightful comments have me questioning if I should go back and bestow a "favorite" tag to this book as well. It really was very well done, but it did not pack the same punch for me as The Heart's Invisible Furies. But perhaps that is an unfair comparison given that Heart's is one of the best books I have ever read!
Nicole R wrote: "I just finished this book yesterday and spent some time this morning reading through everyone's comments! I absolutely loved the book. I hated/loved Maurice.All of your insightful comments have m..."
I think it's hard to get emotionally connected to a character who can't get really connected to people himself. I think this book engaged my head more than my heart. A little too much I think. I'm having a hard time writing a review. I keep thinking about the structure of the book, and the themes, and variations on themes...
I haven't read Furies yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. I think it had a "life" tag. Does that sound right to you?
NancyJ wrote: "I haven't read Furies yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. I think it had a "life" tag. Does that sound right to you? "A perfect fit for the "life" tag!
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
River God (other topics)The Heart's Invisible Furies (other topics)
Unfortunately someone else has the book out. so it does not look like I will get to start for a couple weeks-but here is the thread for everyone else