THE Group for Authors! discussion

I am having trouble getting recognition for my book. I did a Goodreads giveaway and that only got me one review. People who actually read the book, and it is a children's book, tell me it is great for disabled children and people with disabled people in their lives. I just don't know how to get people to consider it. I am open for ideas. I am self published and I know that is part of it. Any suggestions for promoting would be wonderful. Thanks.

Get a PA half the battle of any book is the promotion. One experienced author said the more giveaways the better. I am still trying to get my name out there with limited or no budget.

I have some sales advice I thought I would share. I published my book on Halloween. I just finished my first goodreads giveaway. I got one review as a result and the reader's review said "I got this book for free." lol. It was quite deflating to giveaway 20 copies of my book for that. Honestly, I don't consider Goodreads to be that helpful, People aren't required to leave a comment when they rank something so I am not able to use the feedback constructively to grow.

I have had luck though on Twitter and Amazon. I write a regular free column and i plug my book as much as I can. This has done far more than anything Goodreads has. I frankly think Goodreads hurts my book. The first review I got was a single star with no explanation and now my book might as well have leprosy. But meanwhile, on Amazon, I have 11 reviews so far. I see very healthy feedback and I have developed a relationship with my readers on Twitter and my mailing list. I can usually sell a couple of books a week no problem doing it this way.

I don't plan on doing another giveaway with goodreads. Nor will I be buying into their advertising programs. I don't think Goodreads serves authors that well. I hope this info helps other authors. My second book is in the works now. Good luck to all of you fellow writers! Find your muse and get it on. Talk about the same subjects you write about on twitter. Use people's feedback to hone your ideas and find new ones. Don't be afraid to get controversial either. Take chances, push boundaries. Readers respect you for it.

Thanks, James. I'm still trying to sort out the illegal sale/flogging of my debut book with ex-rogue publisher and amazon.com which was like talking to the wall nowadays and being stuck in a sales - statement-royalty links with KDP when my move to Create Space undergo a hitch somewhere along the linkage when Create Space merged with KDP! I need a big dose of a miracle to flush out the bad elements and inept communication in the AI world of self-publishing.

Thanks for the tip on Twitter, a much more human connection. Likewise, I had good responses, and reviews from Facebook and one great review from Alex Jones on amazon .com

James wrote: "I have some sales advice I thought I would share. I published my book on Halloween. I just finished my first goodreads giveaway. I got one review as a result and the reader's review said "I got thi..."

Joy wrote: "Get a PA half the battle of any book is the promotion. One experienced author said the more giveaways the better. I am still trying to get my name out there with limited or no budget."

Thanks James, I will look into that. I published June 28 and have 137 books sold. I am almost sorry I used Create Space, now KDP. I have 17 ratings and a 4.91 star score. Only one from the giveaway and that was a 4, so 16 of my reviews were 5 stars. I have a blog, a FB page and do instagram, but not Twitter. Will look into Twitter. My book is on Amazon, but have not used Amazon for sales. Like Pam, my budget is limited, so I have to use it wisely. Someone suggested to me to try and get book clubs to read it, any suggestions on how? My thinking is a child's book is not book club material.

I've been self-publishing since 2013. It's hard for your books to get traction. I have no experience with children's books. There are quite a few threads on GR with marketing advice. Basically, you have to advertise on sites that send out daily emails to subscribers looking for books. Some of the best are: eReader News Today, Booksends, Bargainbooksy, Fussy Librarian. There are lots. I suggest doing sales and advertising.

Jamie,
self-published books rarely get noticed without targeted marketing. You have to take your book to your specific audience–the people for whom you wrote the book. Here's what I do: First, I research my target audience. Second, I research where they are. Third, I take my book(s) to them. For example, my last novel was historical fiction about a woman. I researched "readers of historical fiction" and learned most readers are women, aged 34-80+. Then I researched locations where these types of women are found. Some were obvious by this point: beauty salons, book clubs, women's groups, i.e. AAUW, women's clubs, etc. I also researched "museums with women's themes" and found several. I then wrote letters to all of these groups. I don't have unlimited funds so they had to be reachable by car or air (within limits). I told them about the book, asked if they would add me to their annual calendars, and in lieu of a speaking fee, asked if I could sell books. To date I have sold hundreds of books; all are in our county library system and sold in women's museums. Word of mouth, PR from events at which I spoke, continue to sell books for me. That book published in 2016 and as of today, I have three author events booked for this year. Target marketing works. Do your research to find your readers and take your book directly to them. Good luck.

Sarah wrote: "Jamie,
self-published books rarely get noticed without targeted marketing. You have to take your book to your specific audience–the people for whom you wrote the book. Here's what I do: First, I re..."

Excellent practical advice. Congratulations on your success.

Thanks. I am always surprised that many people who write books don't learn how to sell them. It's a business.

Fantastic advice! I know I need to be far more intentional and bold with this stuff. It doesn't make it easier that I write under a pen name to keep my writing and real world job separate.

It's important to make sure your books are available in print and eBook and the price should be low so readers will be more likely to buy a book from an author they've never heard of.

I ran a self-published author (SPA) event last year. It had a panel session with a few SPAs describing their work and processes. Then each SPA had their book/s for sale. 37 SPAs attended and most regarded it as a success wanting another such session. Trying to get another event on this year has met with a brick wall from libraries. They don't return your calls or respond to your emails. The words self and published are apparently still a danger signal. Using indie doesn't help. The assumption, I think, is if the material has been rejected by a traditional publisher (and it may not have even been submitted) then it must be poor quality. Any ideas for a possible venue will be gratefully received.

I am a member of a group of authors who work together to find and set up author events. All but one of us is self-published. Last year we had 14 events, 12 of them at libraries in our county. I was the contact for each event having to call and/or pitch the event by phone or email. There are 26 libraries in our target. Almost all of them responded. I followed up at least twice with the ones who ignored my pitch. As for responses, sometimes "yes", sometimes "no". Of the "no" responses, some of the library locations were too small to host any kind of event, or the location was too far for the authors to travel. I found that the ones who did host us were enthusiastic and helpful. All who hosted were looking for ways to offer their members a program. Every one of our authors sold books. Not a lot of copies, but we figured marketing ourselves as local authors had long term benefit. We already have our first event in 2019, and I personally benefited from two of the appearances last year by being invited to speak and sell books to two organizations in 2019 as well. In summary, I think the key is NOT to tell anyone you approach for an author event that the authors are self-published. READERS DON'T CARE! And, if your books are good, and you're local, your library system, like mine, should carry your books. If your libraries still resist you, find another venue for your event and book it as a Local Author Literary Event for Readers. I think you'll sell more books if you are NOT in a venue where readers can check out your book for free! Our group is looking for non-library venues to do just that. Good luck with your efforts.

Cenarth wrote: "I ran a self-published author (SPA) event last year. It had a panel session with a few SPAs describing their work and processes. Then each SPA had their book/s for sale. 37 SPAs attended and most r..."

Cenarth, with that many authors you could hire a local community hall for the day.

I like that idea!

Excellent response and many thanks. I'm not sure about the following. I think the key is NOT to tell anyone you approach for an author event that the authors are self-published. Librarians ask about the event and as the event is exclusively for indie authors, to not say that seems counter-productive. However, concentrating as you do on LOCAL authors seems a clever pitch. I will give it a go.

Cenarth,

none of the librarians I contacted asked if we were self-published. Perhaps we were lucky?

As for my own sales, most of them I sold direct, have been in places where my readers congregate. The last novel, historical fiction about a woman, sells at hair salons, AAUW meetings, woman's club events, women's museums. I sold the previous novel, an Army story, at meetings of mostly men: Kiwanis, Rotary, and veteran reunions. The novel I am working on now is commercial fiction, so I need to find venues that appeal to those readers. Not ready to do that yet!

Different countries, different values perhaps. The examples of finding your readers or potential readers by going to where they meet or can discover you is the perfect method for sales. Well done.

Cenarth wrote: "I ran a self-published author (SPA) event last year. It had a panel session with a few SPAs describing their work and processes. Then each SPA had their book/s for sale. 37 SPAs attended and most r..."

Ask the parks and recreation department.
Ask the school district, or a single principle of one school to use their cafeteria.
Call the city, and ask for a space.
And go see the library director face to face, and ask for a room to have a writer's meeting, Author retreat for the day. Libraries are your civil rights!
Tell them you will only allow donations to be accepted, if that's a requirement. And please invite me to your next one. Thanks.
Toni Mariani, Author

James wrote: "I have some sales advice I thought I would share. I published my book on Halloween. I just finished my first goodreads giveaway. I got one review as a result and the reader's review said "I got thi..."
I agree, and I was shocked that they started charging for us to give our products away! We don't have to use them, but they are a part of Amazon now.
Toni Mariani, Author

Thanks for the advice. All sound and sensible. Perhaps in Australia one needs to be more determined to get things done. Hiring a venue is not so straightforward. Having insurance cover can be tricky. We soldier on.

I wondered whether you might not be in the US. How about a book club meeting? Those are usually held at a private residence here. Every time I've had an author event at a book club meeting I come away not having sold many copies, but creating a cadre of readers who ask when my next novel is coming out.

As for "determination" Americans typically are a plucky bunch!

There are books, literary periodicals, lectures, and classes available at little or no cost at local public libraries, community colleges, and community seminars that provide detailed instructions and contact information pertaining to publishing, editing, marketing, publicity, sales, distribution, and specific step-by-step procedural advice from commercially successful authors.

All that is required is the willingness and discipline to invest the time, resources, and effort to access them. Even so, there is no guarantee of commercial success if the quality of and interest in the product itself does not meet the expectations and tastes of avid readers.

Cenarth wrote: "Thanks for the advice. All sound and sensible. Perhaps in Australia one needs to be more determined to get things done. Hiring a venue is not so straightforward. Having insurance cover can be trick..."

In Australia you are usually offered a price which includes insurance, or one that doesn't if you have your own insurance.

Cenarth wrote: "I ran a self-published author (SPA) event last year. It had a panel session with a few SPAs describing their work and processes. Then each SPA had their book/s for sale. 37 SPAs attended and most r..."

Wow, the libraries are turning their backs on you! Here on The Sunshine Coast of BC, we have some very active libraries who invite participation from 'indy' authors. Also I'm a member of the BC Federation of Writers and also produce events such as you described - but the libraries will support these events - even on site, but you can't charge admission for the event; although you can sell your books at the event. It can help to have an association of writers 'supporting' you ...

Thanks for your reply. I joined a writing group, spoke at their meeting and invited the members to participate. One did. The other 35 came from online comments/notices. Here, there is a still a divide between writers who have a traditional publishing contract and those who do not.

A restaurant/venue is having a large outdoor cookout party, and I can set-up and sell my cookbook. Yea.
I took the initiative!
Toni Mariani, Author

Cenarth wrote: "there is a still a divide between writers who have a traditional publishing contract and those who do not. ..."
Thanks for this. I've witnessed this repeatedly and mention it in Can I be honest about your writing? (Part 8 - Self-Pubbed v Non-Self-Pubbed, is that the question?) - "Let me share a third sad truth based on my experiences: Many self-pubbed and non-self-pubbed authors create a line at that "non-" part. I've seen it repeatedly."

Huh? What do you mean?

Toni wrote: "Huh? What do you mean?"

Sorry, Toni, not sure who your question is directed to.

"Let me share a third sad truth based on my experiences: Many self-pubbed and non-self-pubbed authors create a line at that "non-" part. I've seen it repeatedly."
Whoever said this, what does it mean!
Toni

Toni wrote: ""Let me share a third sad truth based on my experiences: Many self-pubbed and non-self-pubbed authors create a line at that "non-" part. I've seen it repeatedly."
Whoever said this, what does it me..."

That one's mine. It's in my Can I be honest about your writing? (Part 8 – Self-Pubbed v Non-Self-Pubbed, is that the question?) blog post. The full paragraph is:
Let me share a third sad truth based on my experiences: Many self-pubbed and non-self-pubbed authors create a line at that "non-" part. I've seen it repeatedly. Self-pubs find out someone is non-self-pubbed and they pull back, become guarded, distant. Non-self-pubs find out someone is self-pubbed and they become aloof, guarded, distant. A kind of "Couldn't make it, huh?" or "Didn't have the right stuff, huh?" attitude emerges.
Hope that helps.

In my experience, your so-called sad truth is alive and well Down Under. "Published yourself?" is a question I hear rather than "Congratulations" or "What's your book about?" Some librarians won't return calls once they hear the books are self-published. I can't see the self-published stigma (if that's what it is) disappearing any time soon. Some use the word "Indie" (short for Independent) to describe a self-published writer. Here bookshops which are not part of a chain are called Indies. So now the self-published writers are pinching the name of a player on the side of traditionally published writers. The saga continues.

Cenarth wrote: "In my experience, your so-called sad truth is alive and well Down Under. "Published yourself?" is a question I hear rather than "Congratulations" or "What's your book about?" Some librarians won't ..."

Fascinating and sad. I wrote in Can I be honest about your writing? (Part 5 - Could you provide examples of suckness?) that anyone completing a book to their own satisfaction should be congratulated; they have gotten off the couch, as in "Your speed is not important. As long as you're moving, you're lapping everyone on the couch."

Cenarth wrote: "Thanks for your reply. I joined a writing group, spoke at their meeting and invited the members to participate. One did. The other 35 came from online comments/notices. Here, there is a still a div..."

Good for you!! That's using your resources well and finding your audience!! That's great.

Toni- that last message was for you. I am having trouble with exposure as well. My readers are targeted toward teens and women who read YA. Someone recently told me, "Don't target the teens because they aren't buying the books. Their parents are." Do you think this is correct? I think teens tell their parents what they want to read first. Right? I don't know. I have 5 teenagers myself (yes, all mine) and none of them are readers. I can't get a single person in my family, aside from my mother, to read a single thing I write. And my mom won't write a review! My book has been out almost a year and I have five 5-star reviews on Amazon. That's it. I had six, but a friend stopped speaking to me mysteriously and removed their review from Amazon. That hurt.

Anyway, does anyone have tips on marketing to teens? I am on FB, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Amazon, and GR. I have small folowings on FB and Pinterest. I am not sure how to advertise on Amazon. I saw that mentioned previously. How is that done? I cannot afford a giveaway on Goodreads anymore, but it sounds like those don't bring much revenue. I need help.

Are any of you near the Kansas City area? We could combine forces?

Put your book on sale and try advertising on BargainBooksy if you can afford it. I think they have a lot of younger readers.

Thanks D. I'm on there already, but I haven't gotten much exposure. Certainly not the sales. I am trying everything I can think of, but I'm just spinning my wheels.

One idea is to go meet with your children's principal, and ask if you could volunteer to read to the students, volunteer to help out in the library with a free offering of your books, and volunteer to hold a read-a-thon, by collecting local writers works to use as prizes for the most books read for spring. One basket of books for adult prize, one basket of books with your stuff for teens, and one for children. Then go to the public library and volunteer with a presentation of a gift basket of your books. Be creative in your town. They have little money, so ask to help out.
Toni Mariani, Author

That's a great idea, Toni. My work is more for older teens, so I'm going to hit up my kids' high school, and then the area high schools.

I also need to do some kind of canvassing for local authors. Any ideas on how to find all the local authors, you guys?

I'm not averse to doing the work, I'm just not sure where to start.

I have put in a request to have my book in the local library, but I haven't heard anything about it. I know my book is in Mid-Continent public libraries, though.

I am also part of the greater Kansas City area, so finding local authors can be a really big place and finding people who want to drive to meet can be hard, too. I guess I could have two lists.

If any of you have brilliant ideas on finding ways for local authors to find me, or for me to find them without saying, "scour all the indie magazines to find maybe one." I have 5 children and a writerlife and I need ideas that yield decent results per amount of time.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't just sound like I'm being b*tchy. I'm really not. I'm just short on time. Promise. :^D
~jenn

Hometownreads.com
A online business that claims to want to help authors connect to others locally and help you get exposure by reaching out to libraries and bookstore in all cities. Sign up and put your books on your towns group page.
Toni Mariani, Author

Hello, I am an aspiring writer and honestly, marketing my books has been a challenge for me. When I finished my Memoir in August of 2018, I had thought okay, let's share this amazing story with the world! I have also since completed a 50,000 word fiction novel and am half done with my third manuscript, so marketing has suffered because marketing, self publishing, querying is basically a full time job in itself. Honestly, I have found that I could have produced the most amazing story in the history of mankind, but without the finances or knowledge to properly market it is a frustrating process to be discovered, published, or whatever your goals are. Having watched hours "How to" videos on YouTube, reading every self publish blog, hounded by companies, scammers and vanity publishers, producing social media adds, movie trailers, giveaways ect. I stumbled upon Kindle Direct Publishing and both of my books are for sale on Amazon but I can't seem to find people that read books or will even take the time to find out what your stories are about. Free giveaways? I never would have thought that even GIVING a book away would be so difficult. Finding a literary agent? I have found that most won't even open a query and give it a glance if you have never been published and often are treated like a beggar by them. Sadly, this, at times, have led me to doubt my work, and then I will review what I have produced and then I will have the energy to keep pushing to share my stories with the world. Thanks for hearing my experience in my journey to share capable and entertaining stories with the world, I am still pushing and have many great adventure inside my head. If any of the Goodreads community can lead me in the right direction or have any advice I will forever be at your service!!

Hey Charles, It seems like you're right in the middle of it, like the rest of us. It doesn't get any easier. Just keep pressing on. Don't give up. Make goals for your book baby and research ways to promote it. Marketing is a full- time job. You are never done. Don't doubt yourself. Agents choosing work is very subjective. They not only have to fall in love with it, they have to see it as one-revision-away from being published. They have to believe they can easily sell it, and have the contacts to do so. Many agents out there don't have any books out yet, or have out a handful. They are still building contacts. They are looking for something that resonates with them. It's really NOT always a reflection on your skill. Your book has to be sellable. If traditional publishing is what you want, revise and submit as many times as it takes to reach your goal. Just don't settle. Don't choose a small press just so you can say you are traditionally published. You will still have to do all the work with marketing and promo.

I just put out a blog post on this subject. www.jenniferhaskin.com
Good luck!

Charles, you should set up a Goodreads author profile and list your books. There are lots of conversations on marketing, etc. on Goodreads. You can also read David Gaughran's blog. It's very helpful and all the advice is free (unless you buy his books). All of us are in the same boat but with self-publishing, you have more control. Unless your book is published by a big publishing house, you'll end up doing a lot of the work yourself anyway.

Hi Charles.
I have learned to treat writing as a hobby, steadily doing it when inspired. Keep your day job, but don't stop doing what you love 💘.
Then, join your cities recreation programs, the parks and entertainment center so that you can know about fairs and summer fun days, craft fairs etc. Get a stand, booth or table and get a few marketing tools from Vistaprint, so you will be noticed. Definitely keep business cards and pass them out with your books on the face, or at least info about your books.
Go to your library and take your books 📚 gift wrapped and present the gift to the director, the top person. Tell them you want to join the book club, volunteers team and writing club there.
Then, call the school principal office, and ask to volunteer to read your works and help in any way you can, especially if they have speakers and guest authors night.
Be creative and innovative and take the initiative. Carry your books around in your trun
k and offer them to bookstores, either on consignment or sale. Ask them to order your books to be sold. Take in a copy to show them off. Put a couple around town, in salons, barber shops, doctor offices and clinics, asking the administration office of its ok; especially the business you and your family use and frequent.
Research summer book fairs in surrounding towns, and music festivals often have writers there too.
Congratulations on being a writer, and never devalue your work, just because you haven't been noticed yet.
Set up a Facebook page for selling your books 📚. The world awaits you!
Toni Mariani, Author

D. wrote: "Charles, you should set up a Goodreads author profile and list your books. There are lots of conversations on marketing, etc. on Goodreads. You can also read David Gaughran's blog. It's very helpfu..."

thank you so much I will and your advice has reminded me that, this is a long road and yes anything worth while is hard work. I am forever at your service!!

Toni wrote: "Hi Charles.
I have learned to treat writing as a hobby, steadily doing it when inspired. Keep your day job, but don't stop doing what you love 💘.
Then, join your cities recreation programs, the pa..."

Wow, I feel like I just hit the lottery of advice! Thank you so much for your amazing comment and you have given so many more ideas to market my books! I am forever at your service!

Jennifer wrote: "Hey Charles, It seems like you're right in the middle of it, like the rest of us. It doesn't get any easier. Just keep pressing on. Don't give up. Make goals for your book baby and research ways to..."

Thank you Jennifer for your comment, and honestly, your advice is inspiring, and I will heed all that you have given to me. Yes Marketing is a full time job but thanks I am forever at your service!!

Toni wrote: "Hometownreads.com
A online business that claims to want to help authors connect to others locally and help you get exposure by reaching out to libraries and bookstore in all cities. Sign up and put..."

So far they've invited me to buy stuff but no indication of sales, no marketing of my books other than having them on their site (and not easy to find).