Play Book Tag discussion

It has been a long while since I have done a Sunday Conversation Topic. I apologize for the absence but I am ready to start them again.

There was a comment made the other day on a thread that said "I found some great online discussions/explanations that really made the book so much more enjoyable." PBT has also seen an increase in the amount of Buddy Reads.

Do you find that a discussion of a book, themes analyzed, and symbolism uncovered make a book more enjoyable or less?

Do you think an author creates these themes, inserts symbolism, adds significance to a particular item, phrase, action, or person intentionally?

It is more important to uncover the authors intent or hold on to your own interpretation, feeling, and meaning of a book?

(These questions are just to encourage a discussion. Do not feel obligated to specifically answer each question. Feel free to take this discussion anywhere you wish)

Wonderful questions Jason. For me, it depends on the book. For instance, The Clockmaker's Daughter was a recent book for me that I did not want to analyze. It was a book I just wanted to absorb and let stay with me, without too much overthinking. It was magical and full of so many emotions and I knew if I dug too deep some of that would be lost. Amy and I spoke about this and she gave me some of her experiences in her bookclub with this book.
Other books, I love to analyze with others because I discover so much more about the book that I have not always caught. And I love to hear others thoughts, opinions, and discoveries. So for me, it is dependent upon the book. In past buddy reads, I have found the discussion enjoyable and I learned so much more about the book.

I rarely go deep and "analyze" books. That just takes the fun out of it for me.

Now, I'll use my f2f book club for the rest of my comments. I do still come to my own conclusions, write my review, and have already decided what I think before going to my book club.

What I do like, though, about my book club, even if (or maybe especially if) I didn't like a book, is listening to what other people thought and - especially if they liked it - getting to hear why. I will hear about things I might have missed in the book and it does bring a different perspective, so that I can see different things about the book that way.

Much depends on the book. A lot of books leave me with no desire to discuss in any way. Others, I can' t wait to bounce around my thoughts with others.

Two examples - Ann Patchett's State of Wonder - left me at a loss, irritated, and needing to vent. As soon as a friend finished it, we had a discussion in which we both realized we disliked it for the same reasons, although I hatrd it less. That was a book I could not wait to discuss.

The Weight of Ink is an example of how the discussion during the buddy read here added significantly to my appreciation - Amy's highlighting the flow of the river and the flow of ink alerted me to an imagery that had not struck me with any force, and was a welcome addition.

What also is added value when a book fires up a discussion is what uniquely each person brings to their personal reaction to a book. Everyone has different backgrounds - culturally, socially, educationally, books read, movies and shows seen, travel experiences - that color what they read and understand. And all that shared in a discussion brings great richness to all the participants..whether it is my likening Rothfuss to Dickens, or Amy commenting on flowing rivers and ink in The Weight of Ink.

Jason, so glad to see you back, and back with the Sunday Conversation. Who are you rooting for tonight?

This is a really interesting topic, especially because I changed course for Clockmaker's Daughter. I am one of those people who always say i get far more out of a book when we discuss it together. I love the varied opinions and thoughts and when people pull out things I didn't see. I love book groups and buddy reads, and I know it enhances the experience for me every time. My two recent examples, one was the Weight of Ink. I went to like two book groups, plus the discussion on PBT and that was fabulous! The other is Temeraire - the Dragon. I never would have enjoyed that the same way, if not for all of you. All the excitement of reading that together, absolutely lifted me up.

But Clockmaker's Daughter. Our discussion of all the dimensions was incredible and quite fabulous. But we all seemed to have the shared experience, that the more we took things apart, and the more some things just didn't make sense or hang together, that the beauty of the book was getting lessened in the details, that maybe were a stretch. We all had to take pause, stop being nit-pick, and decide together to love the book and let some strands go. This is important too, I think. As my friend CL said, "once there is a ghost in the book, you sort of have to look at the book with a different kind of quality, a suspension of disbelief." I think that's important. I loved the Clockmaker's Daughter again, once we were able to speak out that when we aren't tearing apart the threads, it is in fact a beautiful haunting journey.

So many books made more beautiful by discussion. the hearts invisible Furies. The Hate u Give. The Marriage of Opposites. On Chesil Beach. Even ones I enjoyed less, I enjoyed more after the meeting. On Chesil Beach. Commonwealth. The Children Act. Americanah. All of these discussions stand out as amazing. The Nix. The Department of Speculation. The Buddha in the Attic.

I'm all for enhancing a book with other's perceptions and voices. I'm also all for suspension of disbelief, to truly enjoy a beautiful journey. Hope that clears it up.

With me, too, it depends on the book. I read a lot of Fantasy and a lot of those I just want to hang onto in my own personal space.

But a good example is a book I just postedCutting for Stone, where I debated for a day whether it was a 5 star read for me. After the posts and discussion I came to the conclusion that it was(I gave it 4 1/2 and rounded up). I love how this group can do that to me!

I usually do not look at what the author intended-for me it is what I get out of the book, and a lot times that is far distant from what the author intended-I love the buddy reads, so many times someone will say something about a book and I have the 'ah-ha" moment!

And welcome back to Sunday Jason! When I first started here last winter your "Sunday Conversations" where one of the posts I most looked forward too!

Amy,

My team isn't in the Super Bowl so I am hoping for a good game. Though I do not want to see the Patriots win "ANOTHER" Super Bowl, I do think they will win. (Sorry Rams fans out there)

I love discussing books. Some avail themselves to more discussion than others, but I love listening to what others focus on and notice and I enjoy sharing my own thoughts and gaining feed back. I love constructive criticism.

That said, I always take time to meditate on any book I have just finished before discussion, reading other reviews, or looking up articles on the internet. I think books are also personal experiences and I want to hold on to that, to own the book in my own personal universe for a time before broadening out and looking at it from other points of view.

So, I like both worlds. First I meditate and make the book mine, normally a day or two then share a review on PBT. Then I read other reviews, articles, wiki articles and also hope for a good conversation on PBT.

Another note: Half the stuff we discuss in analyze are complete accidents by the author except in rare cases. I know some authors claim to do this and that in a book. I don't believe them most of the time. Stephen King mentioned in On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft, that he writes his books then goes back and sees if there is any symbolism or themes and just makes them stronger in the rewrite. I think most themes and other elements are accidental most of the time.

Thankyou Joanne

Welcome back, Jason!
And glad to see Sunday Conversations are back too.

Regarding analyzing a book and its themes, this definitely depends on the book for me, but I find there is some natural analysis that happens without me doing it intentionally. A light, quickly consumable thriller I am not thinking in depth about, but definitely if there are themes related to social issues or introspection into the human condition.

I love to talk in depth about books with other people! Always... But I find that it is always more fruitful when the book has sensitive topics that people are passionate about. It is interesting to hear why people liked or disliked a particular part of a book.
I usually prefer to do this after I formed my own opinion and wrote my review. I don't like to read discussions or reviews before writing my own review of a book I just read so I am not influenced by it. Of course, I read plenty of reviews here and other places, just not of a book I just finished and will review if that makes sense...

I think there are many themes in a book that is not intentional that literary critics pull out of books. Whether we stretch for that connection or it is unconsciously included is no matter. It's really up to the reader how they interpret it and I feel the same way about film.

What an interesting conversation this is. I'm thinking about how author Amy Tan has answered the questions being discussed. Amy Tan says that she writes her story as she wants and does not interpret it or put any symbolic meaning in it. She is surprised by what her readers see in her books.

Since I read a lot of fiction, I can see common themes and ideas that run through a particular author's books, either consciously or not. For example, in Ann Tyler's books, a common theme is a character leaving their day to day life and stepping into a new one. Another author, who writes both fiction and memoirs, has said that bits and pieces of an author's experiences get put unconsciously into fiction.

And then, we as readers bring our own personal lenses to understand what we're reading. That's what makes this all so interesting!

Do you guys remember the buddy read for Circe? That was another example of how like 10 to 15 of us came together and enriched this book for those of us who didn’t love it. Seeing Meli reminded me.

Yes, I was thinking of that too reading through some of the comments. Even though it is reimagined mythology, it contains enough social commentary for people to relate to Circe's experience and have a lot to say about it.

I rarely look into what the author intended or didn't in a book. Too much of writing comes from deep within, from the subconscious, from memories, and I don't believe an author necessarily ever has the distance from the writing to 'see' everything they have put on the page, or why they chose certain words, phrases, images.

It's like Richard Adams always insisting that Watership Down was never an allegory, but just a simple children's story. Sorry, Richard, but if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, its a duck. And so much of children's literature is allegorical or about teaching under the guise of entertainment...that isn't it likely that subconsiously how Adams told the story to his children then eventually wrote it down for a larger audience, it became an allegory.

Amy wrote: "Do you guys remember the buddy read for Circe? That was another example of how like 10 to 15 of us came together and enriched this book for those of us who didn’t love it. Seeing Meli reminded me."

Circe and The Weight of Ink were both such great books to discuss. Although the discussions did not make me love Circe anymore, I was able to absorb so much more from the discussions.

Holly R W wrote: "Amy Tan says that she writes her story as she wants and does not interpret it or put any symbolic meaning in it. She is surprised by what her readers see in her books. ..."

I always wondered about this way back in high school where we had to pick apart books - did the author really mean that!? Maybe they didn't and people are just reading into it what they want to see!

LibraryCin wrote: "Holly R W wrote: "Amy Tan says that she writes her story as she wants and does not interpret it or put any symbolic meaning in it. She is surprised by what her readers see in her books. ..."

I alw..."

I always had the same arguments with my teachers. How do you know they intended that? I've come to learn most authors don't or reinforce things after the fact.

Amy wrote: "Do you guys remember the buddy read for Circe? That was another example of how like 10 to 15 of us came together and enriched this book for those of us who didn’t love it. Seeing Meli reminded me."

Yes! That was a great conversation!

LibraryCin wrote: "Holly R W wrote: "Amy Tan says that she writes her story as she wants and does not interpret it or put any symbolic meaning in it. She is surprised by what her readers see in her books. ..."

I alw..."

Ugh! I hated, absolutely hated, doing that in High School. I had one literature teacher who I swear posed the questions so that we angst-fueled teenagers would want to beat each other up after class!

Joanne wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Holly R W wrote: "Amy Tan says that she writes her story as she wants and does not interpret it or put any symbolic meaning in it. She is surprised by what her readers see in her..."

I did like Socratic Circle. Probably come as a shock, but I liked posing the questions.

I think critical reading and literary analysis is interesting, but I am not sure it is necessary or if high schoolers benefit from it much. I think I appreciated reading the least in high school and definitely didn't care about literary analysis.

A guy was telling me how he hates when people try to find meaning in books or pick them apart (when another friend and I were discussing Lord of the Flies), but of course there is meaning below the surface to everything. I don't think we can know for sure the author intended it or not. At the same time we can take from it what we want. They have to be influenced by their experiences and world view.

Some books are more ripe for analysis than others.
Hard to say Lord of the Flies is an entertaining read and not address any of the social commentary in any way (at least for me).

My favourite books are often ones I disappear into, for the time that I'm reading them. So I'm not thinking too hard at the same time, though I do take space to breathe the language if it's particularly lovely. But occasionally I'll home in on characters or ideas that really appeal or resonate even while I'm reading it (Circe was a good example). And those are the books that stay with me best, apart from those where I found friends in the characters.

I find it really hard to capture in a review what I experienced in a book, particularly if I liked it. It's much easier to bubble about a book when I'm talking to a friend. But I love reading other people's reviews or hearing their thoughts especially if we had very different reactions to a work - as others have said already, it can add different layers to a book, which is interesting.

I definitely enjoy reading others' thoughts on a book and participating in discussions such as we engage in on PBT, especially when someone points out themes, symbols, or other insights I may have missed.

I think many authors have at least some idea of what he or she is trying to communicate. Some even have themes in mind (I say this from my experience of having read lots of interviews with authors). These themes may or may not be discerned by the reader. My definition of a "great book" is one that allows for (or even encourages) multiple interpretations. Readers may find more meanings than the author intended! I do think many of what I will call "great authors" write with intention, though I'm sure some of it flows unconsciously during the writing phase.

I love finding out what the author's intent was, and as I said above, I often look up author interviews. I am fairly analytical, so it's in my nature to do this and understand not everyone wants or needs to do literary analysis. I just enjoy it.

I tend to write my thoughts before doing any research so as not to be influenced by further investigation and agree with KateNZ that I find it difficult to express in a review my experience of reading the book.

I heard an author speak at an event for her new book. Her first book had been chosen as an Oprah book ... which, of course, she had to keep completely secret until "O" announced it. Meanwhile ... she went on to write a second novel and was working on a third. All while being a busy mother.

So a few days before the official taping of the Oprah show where they're going to discuss her first book, the author is busy fixing dinner, trying to get one kid to do homework, and worrying about second kid who is upstairs sick in bed. Oprah calls wanting to discuss some questions before the taping. Busy mom-author listens politely (it's OPRAH!). Finally O gets to this question:
"So, does the white cat symbolize purity or something else?"

Author: There's a cat in my book?

Oh my God, that is an amazing anecdote!

Book Concierge wrote: "I heard an author speak at an event for her new book. Her first book had been chosen as an Oprah book ... which, of course, she had to keep completely secret until "O" announced it. Meanwhile ... s..."

I can just imagine O's face!

Book Concierge wrote: "I heard an author speak at an event for her new book. Her first book had been chosen as an Oprah book ... which, of course, she had to keep completely secret until "O" announced it. Meanwhile ... s..."

I so wish there was a like button on here.

I love that story too!

What a great story for a Friday morning! I am laughing my head off right now in this quiet, sleepy house!