SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Sci-Fi and Fantasy are genres that are closely associated with each other, yet still distinct from each other. A lot of times there will be a mix of both.

What are the best books you can recommend that you would say are in equal parts Sci-Fi and Fantasy?

My #1 answer to this is Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and subsequent Solar Cycle series.

Taking place in ultimately a SF setting, with beam weapons and time travel and dimensional spaceships, it nevertheless has an on-the-ground presence of the middle ages, with noble families, swords and sorcery, along with remembrances of ages past.

My #2 pick is Jack Vance's Dying Earth. Same thing, on a slightly less grand scale, but also very good.

My #3 pick to round it out, would be Zelazny's Lord of Light. Hindu and Buddhist philosophy augmented with space age technology.

Quite a few works by Roger Zelazny can qualify. Out of the top of my head: Lord of Light, Roadmarks, and Jack of Shadows just to name a few.

Dune, for sure. I'm halfway through the series now and I'm increasingly surprised by how prevelant the supernatural elements are.

Kenneth wrote: "My #1 answer to this is Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun...
My #2 pick is Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying Earth: The Dying Earth/The Eyes of the Overworld/Cugel's Saga/Rhialto the Marvellous...
My #3 pick to round it out, would be Zelazny's Lord of Light..."

Kenneth has a very good list (all of these are on my favorites shelf)-- some other examples:

The Sword of Rhiannon
The High Crusade
Heroes Die
Elric at the End of Time
The Gates to Witch World

Dread Companion by Andre Norton Far future with rocket ships and interstellar civilization -- and the, ehem, Fair Folk.

The odd thing about this one is that the SF tropes are in full force, and so are the fantasy, even though viewed through the point of view of a woman from the far future and so not framed as the fantasy tropes we all know.

Almost forgot: The Goblin Reservation by Clifford D. Simak.

Speaking of Roger Zelazny, do The Amber Chronicles count? Maybe they're not an even split, but there are certainly science fictiony shadows, even if the main world has a fantasy feel.

I'll go with Chris Wooding's Tales of The Ketty Jay. They're a good, fun blend.

So far, from what I could tell out of the books named, Lord of Light seems like an excellent pick for this.

Thanks for the replies so far!

Lord of Light is a brilliant book. Everyone should read it right away.

The fun part is that Zelanzy provides no explanation for their powers in Lord of Light, although certain aspects of it lead me to suspect it's supposed to be psionics.

Whoa, deja vu. I've seen this question (and given this answer) somewhere before.;)

The Kameron Hurley Omnibus: The Complete Bel Dame Apocrypha Series seemed difficult for me to pigeon hole neatly into one category or another. There are aliens and spacecraft and I guess that world is populated by humans (from earth), but those elements are actually not very central to the story. There is a lot of magic involved and it just reads more like fantasy than sci-fi to me.

Some great recommendations here although I'm usually inclined to read books that are firmly one or the other.

I joined this group hoping to expand my horizons. Although this is only the second thread I've read, I've not been disappointed. What a wealth of backgrounds. Thanks!

Andy wrote: "Whoa, deja vu. I've seen this question (and given this answer) somewhere before.;)"

I was just going to say the same thing. Are people exclusive to either SF&FBC or S&L?

Anyway, same answers here from me: The Dragonriders of Pern by Anne Mccaffrey and The Apocalypse Door by James D. Macdonald.

Dan Simmons' Hyperion/Endymion books have a science fiction setting, but has a very fantasy 'feel' to it- heroes, quest journeys, the 'chosen one', etc.

His Ilium/Olympos books are also science fiction, but they've got a lot of mythological/fantasy elements and characters- the Trojan War and Greek Gods, Shakespearean characters, the wandering Jew etc.

Can I throw something out there that's a new release?

I won this book called Evolution of Angels. It seems to be split very much down the line of fantasy and sci-fi, much like the new Marvel movies.

It uses some grounded science to explain the fantastical elements, but also doesn't stop by having to "explain" everything.

You get supernatural powers, DNA manipulation, and loads of action with a mixed bag of ancient mythologies.

Anyway, just something different.

Neil Gaiman wrote a young adult book InterWorld which I listened to with my kids and we enjoyed quite a bit. I am not sure I would call it a "best" book but good. It is about a kid who can walk between alternate versions of his world, some of them ruled by magic, some by science.

I'd say Strata, one of Terry Pratchett's early forays into sci-fi. It features a sci-fi version of the Discworld, built by ancient aliens; a world of magic and fantasy creatures that nevertheless have a scientific explanation. It's also a very entertaining read!

I read a neat book this week that takes place in the present or very near future. It has a magic system based on linguistics, psychology and semiotics. It's Lexicon by Max Barry.

Steph wrote: "I'd say Strata, one of Terry Pratchett's early forays into sci-fi. It features a sci-fi version of the Discworld, built by ancient aliens; a world of magic and fantasy creatures that n..."

Good suggestions!

The only books I recall reading that are a mix of Sci-fi and fantasy are by an indie goodread's author. A series of four which is well worth checking out, and the first book is free: Few Are Chosen.

I'm surprised that no one named the Darkover series, by Marion Zimmer Bradley which is the epitome of science-fantasy.

Eh, psionics. We have people who perform experiments with Rhine cards and the like. It was respectable if soft science at the time.

A great deal of my work straddles this rather fuzzy line. You could look at HOW LIKE A GOD, or SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES.

MZB also had: god (or what was implied to be sufficiently powerful aliens), sacred relics and swords, fairies, a high-medieval setting (during some of the books), star-crossed lovers, and various other strong fantasy elements. The psionics is only a part of it.

A high-medieval setting is irrelevant, being found in many SF stories. Star-crossed lovers are found in every genre on Earth.

Not only are non-human characters sufficiently advanced aliens, they are unambiguously so.

The sacred relics and swords are psionic technology, and clearly labeled as such.

So, no, not fantasy elements.

Whatever. If Lord of Light fits, MZB does too, but it's not a topic I care about enough to argue.

I think that the Darkover novels have a "fantasy feel" which is subjective. They have a fantasy type milieu that causes fantasy fans to enjoy it more than other types of science fiction. Other science fiction novels with a high medieval setting are also in this category. I think that science fiction authors with fantasy roots like MZB are more comfortable with a medieval setting and tend to attract fantasy fans.

John wrote: "Dune, for sure. I'm halfway through the series now and I'm increasingly surprised by how prevelant the supernatural elements are."

Yes! Though I struggled with some of the books, it was worth while to explore that amazing Universe.
The mixture of mysticism, science and dark tragedy kept me wanting to know more.

I'll throw out Jim Butcher's Fury series and his Dresden files series.

Especially the Dresden files with the magical worlds mixed with 'modern' day interactions.

Still one of my favorite patio reads.

It seems like this was a "thing" some years ago - Piers Anthony's Adept, Anne McCaffery's Pern, Christopher Stasheff's Warlock and his Wizard series', CJ Cherryh's Morgaine books, Gene Wolfe's New Sun. All have fantasy mixed with scifi in some way, even if it's just fantasy tropes in what is revealed to be a scifi setting.

A more recent example I know of is Sharon Shinn's Angel series.

I quite agree about Anthony's Adept series. It's been awhile, but I think he explicitly states that the two worlds are in different universes, where one is high tech and the other is magic.

Michele wrote: "A more recent example I know of is Sharon Shinn's Angel series. "

This one I'm not sure about. I think what happened here is that she was going for pure science fiction but her incredibly poor grasp of science and technology accidentally led her to have fantasy elements in the story. Or rather, elements that were intended to be scientific but can be interpreted as fantasy.

I disagree :)

(view spoiler)[I think she was going for romantic futuristic fantasy, with a religious angle. The science isn't what's important to the plot, except that it exists without the inhabitants being aware and thenn they learn bits about it.

So she doesn't need to have real world science explanations, just the flavor of teleporters and a spaceship and genetic tinkering. It's obviously set in our future. (hide spoiler)]

As I said, fantasy tropes in a scifi setting - I dunno what else to call her general setting since it has scifi tropes also.

The flavor of SF is all that is needed. SF is the branch of literature that attempts to suspend disbelief by appeal to the authority of science. Nothing in Archangel or any of the others requires anything else to suspend disbelief.

The three Jon Shannow novels by David Gemmell are set in a post-apocalypse future with guns and magical Sipstrassi stones of power that feed on blood.

As for Archangel, without asking Shinn what her intent was, we'll never know, but you're probably right in that she was going for a Fantasy Romance with science fictional props, as there are a lot of things in that story which make no sense beyond the Star Trek/Star Wars level of sci-fi, where it's usually just used as a McGuffin or deus ex machina. I recall one character created what was essentially a satellite phone without having any of the technological or societal precursors vital to creating such a device, but there was something about her descriptions that made me think she was going for Science Fiction and hitting Fantasy rather than the other way around.

I did find it amusing that Anne McCaffrey's effusive blurb was front and center on the book jacket, when Shinn had essentially done a one-for-one steal of both characters and plot (and even specific scenes like the "bathing in a hot spring in the cave") of Dragonriders of Pern. All Shinn did, really, was combine the dragons and riders into one character. But that's a separate topic.

I recall from my stint with an SF/F publisher that McCaffrey was very generous in the matter of blurbs.

Margaret wrote: "I recall from my stint with an SF/F publisher that McCaffrey was very generous in the matter of blurbs."

It is many years since I had any contact with McCaffrey - but I remember her as a generous person all round - she always had time for a word with her fans, and was always willing to discuss and explain her work. She is missed.

Alan wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I recall from my stint with an SF/F publisher that McCaffrey was very generous in the matter of blurbs."

It is many years since I had any contact with McCaffrey - but I remember h..."

McCaffrey was also into opera, which is very much in tune with her excellent Dragonsinger books. Too many other SF and fantasy writers who include music as a significant factor in their books completely ignore the old adage: Write what you know.

Michele wrote: "It seems like this was a "thing" some years ago - Piers Anthony's Adept, Anne McCaffery's Pern, Christopher Stasheff's Warlock and his Wizard series', CJ Cherryh's Morgaine books, Gene Wolfe's New ..."
Good one on the Stasheff books. I'm embarrassed I did not think of them.

Doc wrote: "Michele wrote: "It seems like this was a "thing" some years ago - Piers Anthony's Adept, Anne McCaffery's Pern, Christopher Stasheff's Warlock and his Wizard series', CJ Cherryh's Morgaine books, G..."

Another writer who incorporates a lot of music into her work (and I think does it very well) is Louise MarleyLouise Marley . She was a professional opera singer in her first career way back when she and I attended Clarion West together in the early 90s.

Would the Deathstalker series by Simon R Green count as a mixture of scifi and fantasy. It's got kind of a space opera feel to it, but at the same time it encorporates swords and other fantasy tropes.

"Heroes Die" by Matthew Woodring Stover perhaps.

I'll throw the Peter Grant series out there. For anyone who's read this series, give me a shout as to whether this counts.

I'd classify the Peter Grant series (which I love) as urban fantasy ... though Peter's attitude toward the magic he's learning really does seem more science-fictional!

You might like Celestial Matters by Richard Garfinkle, which is -- odd.

One might call it hard SF or space opera except that it takes place in a Ptolemaic universe with Aristotelian physics.

Lord of Light probably hits that descrip on the nose.

CELESTIAL MATTERS was superb, and in fact is a perfect example of how pure SF can have no rockets or tech at all.