Reading Envy Readers discussion

This is a placeholder for all discussion pertaining to part 1. Assume spoilers only for this section.

I have finished part 1, I am getting the hang of it now they are all awful people especially Scarlett. The racism is horrendous and a real challenge to read.

I was hooked right away. Part One offered an interesting look in to the good life in the South before the Civil War. I thought Mitchell fleshed out the characters really well, considering there were so many introduced. I feel like I know them, and I don't need a roster to remember them all. Scarlett is something else. I like her quick wit and retorts (fiddle-dee-dee, God's pajamas, etc.) but she is constantly conniving to try to get her way, LIke Emily said, I forget that she's just a teenager during this part of the book. And I'm listening in audio, too, and have mad numerous bookmarks. I think I'm going to look for a used copy at a used bookstore so I can note some of my favorite tracts. Up next: the fall of King Cotton- how are the proud and confident Southerners going to react when the Yankees start pushing them around.

I've seen the movie several times and read the novel once before, in the late 1990s, but don't remember much of the details. It is like a time travel story back to the Old South or at least a 1930's version of the Antebellum South through Mitchell's eyes.

The racism is horrendous, and so are the class issues and inflexible gender roles. This is definitely not a world in which I'd want to live. I both loathe and love Scarlett. She's only 16 and clueless but so incredibly sharp. You can see how her intellect and spirit are distorted in ugly ways by the tiny world she's made to squeeze into. She's like a mini-version of the world she inhabits, one that Rhett Butler can see critically. He's such a wolf, but as he points out, the trouble with "us Southerners" of a certain class is that they haven't benefitted from their travels and certainly haven't thought critically about what resources they'd need to wage war.

The comments about Ashley's love of reading over hunting and how his family is "queer" for appreciating books, art, and music made me want to be Wilkes -- a male Wilkes -- oh, to go on a THREE YEAR grand tour?? Sign me up!

I've finished Part 1. **SPOILERS TO FOLLOW**
So many thoughts. I love Mitchell's writing and I am most certainly hooked on the story. I've only been able to listen via audio and there were definitely times when I wished I was reading and could underline, highlight, or write in the margins. She has some interesting turns of phrase. And then some funny things, like describing her 32 year old mother as "middle aged." Of course, back then, she most certainly was. The racism is really tricky and hard to endure, even from Mammy! It is interesting how palpable the looming war is and, yet, how focused on being lovelorn Scarlett remains. Alas, one must remember she is a teenager! The marriage to Charles and the birth of the baby completely shocked me, it all happened so fast.
Very interested to head into Part 2. Looking forward to others thoughts.

I didn't care for the omniscient POV that was happening, felt like more a distraction than being informative or atmospheric as I feel the chapters would have been best served as character-centric. But this didn't inhibit readerly pleasures, much.

I found it difficult to remember that Scarlett was in fact a girl and not a woman. I suspect this is a common pitfall for adult readers, this is to say we tend to assume adult thoughts and opinions are held by all characters, regardless to age. Or perhaps I just am struggling to remember what it was like to be so very young, bursting with unwavering certainty. /sigh

I was intrigued by spring's symbolism, growth's potential, its hope, promises of what might yet be against the backdrop of war. "The warm damp balminess of spring encompassed her sweetly with the moist smells of new-plowed earth and all the fresh green things pushing up to the air." Of course I was then pressed to wonder what brings such lush growth, and my thoughts were drawn to the dead, and all that rich blood that was metaphorically just down the road. "Her eyes followed the winding road, blood-red now after the morning rain." Blood and rain and growth, indeed. "It was a savagely red land, blood-colored after rains, brick dust in droughts..." I think of the war that is coming like the spring, and I think of all this agrarian imagery and what is grown there, cotton and slaves and all the blood that has been spilled and shall be spilled. Blood is coming like the rains. "Spring had come early that year, with warm quick rains and sudden frothing of pink peach blossoms and dogwood dappling with white stars the dark river swamp and far-off hills. Already the plowing was nearly finished, and the bloody glory of the sunset colored the fresh-cut furrows of red Georgia clay to even redder hues. The moist hungry earth, waiting upturned for the cotton seeds, showed pinkish on the sandy tops of furrows, vermilion and scarlet and maroon where shadows lay along the sides of the trenches. The whitewashed brick plantation house seemed an island set in a wild red sea, a sea of spiraling, curving, crescent billows petrified suddenly at the moment when the pink-tipped waves were breaking into surf."

Chapter 7 felt like a letdown, at least to me, too much exposition when the previous six chapters were so rich with dramatic action. But all narratives need their bridges, I suppose. Still, I would have preferred chapter seven to be more in the moment than so sweeping.

I hadn't heard of the phrase "God's nightgown" before. I still don't know what to make of it.

Of course traditional gender roles are on full display in these early chapters. "It was a man's world, and she accepted it as such. The man owned the property, and the woman managed it. The man took credit for the management, and the woman praised his cleverness. The man roared like a bull when a splinter was in his finger, and the woman muffled the moans of childbirth, lest she disturb him. Men were rough of speech and often drunk. Women ignored the lapses of speech and put the drunkards to bed without bitter words. Men were rude and outspoken, women were always kind, gracious and forgiving." I will be curious to see whether this view of women and men change during this book. I suspect it won't considering when this book was written and the state of gender roles in the 30s, but one never knows. And this brings me to another internal and constantly present thought, this being that we are reading this book in 2019 which is set in 1861 and was written in 1936. The mirrors we are gazing into are tricksy.

On the topic of slavery: I am curious to see where we go from the first seven chapters. I'm interested to see if the issue of slavery is more than a historical truth used in the narrative, or if it will become something explored at depth.

I don’t expect slavery will be much explored as a topic as that would mean humanising the slave characters and I just sadly don’t see that happening. Does Margaret Mitchell want us to like Scarlett despite her selfish mean ways ? I do want her to grow as a person and the war is about to blow her world apart so maybe this will happen.

Chris wrote: "The comments about Ashley's love of reading over hunting and how his family is "queer" for appreciating books, art, and music made me want to be Wilkes -- a male Wilkes -- oh, to go on a THREE YEAR grand tour?? Sign me up! "

Seriously!!!

Chris wrote: "[Rhett]'s such a wolf, but as he points out, the trouble with "us Southerners" of a certain class is that they haven't benefitted from their travels and certainly haven't thought critically about what resources they'd need to wage war."
I like how he is already established as an outsider. How did Honey say it, that he hasn't been received? Ouch.

How many 19th century novels have people encountering one another in a huge estate library? Here is another!

Casey wrote: "I found it difficult to remember that Scarlett was in fact a girl and not a woman. I suspect this is a common pitfall for adult readers, this is to say we tend to assume adult thoughts and opinions are held by all characters, regardless to age...."
You're right, and I think it comes across well in this first section but might be easy to forget later on when the events get more serious than parties and courting. But it's interesting how many people she is constantly reframing herself against - her mother's training, Mammy's forced caretaking and careful observation, her father's desire to see her in a certain light, the boys she can throw away, the boys she wants, the stupid girls, the overly insightful girl (and boy doesn't she get swift revenge!), the sisters....

Casey wrote: "I was intrigued by spring's symbolism, growth's potential, its hope, promises of what might yet be against the backdrop of war. ."
Totally, and you give some great examples. As we are in the same time of year here in the south, it's interesting how she captures the feeling that even in spring the air can be hard to breathe, that you still want to have the bbq in the shade.... And I think those long chats about horses seem to have some metaphor potential, perhaps.

Casey wrote: "I hadn't heard of the phrase "God's nightgown" before. I still don't know what to make of it."
It makes me laugh every time but I can't find much about it that isn't in direct reference to the novel.

Casey wrote: "Chapter 7 felt like a letdown, at least to me, too much exposition when the previous six chapters were so rich with dramatic action. But all narratives need their bridges, I suppose. Still, I would have preferred chapter seven to be more in the moment than so sweeping."
Same, makes me think we're heading into a major shift.

Shatterlings wrote: "I don’t expect slavery will be much explored as a topic as that would mean humanising the slave characters and I just sadly don’t see that happening. Does Margaret Mitchell want us to like Scarlett..."

I suspected even showing the happiness of the slave gaining his wife back thanks to Gerald, and their daughter feeling free to speak freely actually says something about the household, maybe the fact that Gerald is a pushover also makes him humane. I say humane but he's still a slaveholder (so how humane can he be?) But in the context of the southern novel and the south, I feel like this is trying to show them as better than most. And MItchell showing some of the internal lives of the slaves (Mammy being so perceptive, for instance) could be progressive, but I'm not sure.

I do wonder if that will continue as the story focus shifts or not. Onward!

Shatterlings wrote: "Does Margaret Mitchell want us to like Scarlett despite her selfish mean ways ? I do want her to grow as a person and the war is about to blow her world apart so maybe this will happen. ."
Part of me feels that in some ways, Scarlett mirrors some of our 21st century novels where female authors have decided they are NOT writing likeable protagonists anymore. But your'e probably right that it will a redemption story before the end.

I kind of like that she is so observant and conniving because then having to participate in society requires her to not display any of that! It's so much to push down.....

I ended up choosing to look at Scarlett through the lens of her facing down Victorianism. In this light, I can stand back, eat popcorn, and watch as she burns it all to the ground.

'I have no idea if this is the right approach, but it's what I'm doing now, and it's working for me. I had to step outside of my own head, my own experiences with women like Scarlett and accept the narrative for what it is in the moment.

Casey wrote: "I ended up choosing to look at Scarlett through the lens of her facing down Victorianism. In this light, I can stand back, eat popcorn, and watch as she burns it all to the ground.

'I have no ide..."

I think this continues in part 2 for sure!

I powered through Part One yesterday. The Gender Roles are so defined an unforgiving across the board. I don't remember feeling that way when I read GWTW the first time 35 years ago.

Mina wrote: "I powered through Part One yesterday. The Gender Roles are so defined an unforgiving across the board. I don't remember feeling that way when I read GWTW the first time 35 years ago."

This makes me wonder how people experience this book from the first time they read it to the most current. I also wonder about how differently men read this book compared to women.

I have never read this classic! So surprised as to how incredible the writing is. I can not put this down. As others have mentioned, the racism and gender class issues are very hard to read. There are a few scenes that really stuck with me. When Ellen arrives home after attending to a birth and is exhausted physically and mentally her family doesn't see this. They go on and on about their needs. She takes a deep breath and then one by one she addresses their needs. I wanted to scream!!!
I found it surprising that Margaret Mitchell used the term telegraph as in nonverbally communicating as it has become a popular term currently.
Already started Part II!

Casey wrote: This makes me wonder how people experience this book from the first time they read it to the most current. I also wonder about how differently men read this book compared to women."
Indeed. I also wonder the treatment of the subject matter since the author is a woman. We get the inner lives of some of the women but never really much of the men, maybe some of Gerard.

Deb wrote: "I have never read this classic! So surprised as to how incredible the writing is. I can not put this down. As others have mentioned, the racism and gender class issues are very hard to read. There ..."
I think this passage you mention is even more interesting after finishing part 3! Scarlett has quite the model in her mother.