Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

We got a bit off topic in the first Sylvester thread.

If this looks like being a useful resource I may move it to the Really Useful Stuff folder.

Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this - been a busy week.

I'm going to move some of the comments over from the Sylvester thread to get the ball rolling. :)

Be aware in a thread like this there may be open spoilers.

Jemima:
Oh and I was so excited when my girlfriend named her new baby ‘Hugo’ a few months ago. I had to explain that he was one of my favorite characters of all time from one of my favorite books. Baby Hugo is an absolute darling and is already shaping up to be huge...he’s really long too. Daddy is well over 6 foot but Mummy is tiny and petite. So funny watching her lug Hugo around.

Rosina
Adolphus has gone out of fashion, particularly in its short form. And Tracy and Ashley have changed sex. I wouldn't be too happy with Waldo, or Vernon, but I could see most of the others being quite happy, even in Primary School.

Maith
Have Tracy and Ashley changed genders? I know male Tracys and Ashleys here - in TX - they are pretty young (to me!) - in their twenties and thirties!

Susan in NC

Ok, those are lovely names, but I draw the line at Drusilla - I think the dog might turn on you...she was one of my favorite characters in the book, but I lamented her name.

Jemima

Susan I agree. Poor Drusilla. One of my favorite characters too. There were a few other spectacular ones. My first male white poodle was ‘Camille’ after the French Cousin in Cotillion. Everyone including the vet thought he was a girl, even before he heard the name because he was so pretty. I thought it was a boys name.. turns out I’m wrong. Camille Pisarro and Camille Saint-Seans were names I grew up with in my very old fashioned for nowadays education (I did study Chemistry too but that’s because it reminded me of cooking so much). I al always thought the name ‘Annis’ a bit weird too... haven’t heard that anywhere else. It’s amazing how names can grow on you though. I love Theodora now because I have a girlfriend called that...Theo for short. Ancilla is the other one...reminds me of ancillary. Beverley is another boy name that is mostly girls these days.


message 45: by Jemima May 02, 2019 08:42AM
Jemima Ravenclaw (JemimaRavenclaw) | 24 comments Oooh...Endymion Dauntry. That’s a name to match poor Charis.

Susan in NC

Ok, you win, Endymion would be tough on boy or girl, dog or human

I think that the poor butlers have some of the worst names - Buddle, Whimple, Grimshaw, Butterbank, Skelton, Stobhill, Pennymore, Mortimer, Groombridge...

I've been researching my family history for a few years now and have collected a wide variety of names used - although some names appear quite frequently (I have found my sister's name in every generation back to a great-great-great-great grandmother ) and some families cause confusion because several of them have used the same name as they each have named children after grandparents.

Amongst the more unususal names used by Georgette Heyer - I have an Uncle Vernon, and also a great aunt Annis.
Work colleagues have relatives called Tristan & Sylvester and one of the nurses in the cancer unit where Mum is being treated has just had a little Phoebe.
I've never come across a Waldo or Ivo though !

Critterbee❇ wrote: "I think that the poor butlers have some of the worst names - Buddle, Whimple, Grimshaw, Butterbank, Skelton, Stobhill, Pennymore, Mortimer, Groombridge..."

so true! this made me laugh!

Agree about the butlers. Too funny. I imagine some of the valet names are pretty good, also, although I can't think of any right now. Critterbee, you've got me wanting to keep a list while I read through these books.

As for valets, the first ones that spring to my mind are the "dueling valets" in The Unknown Ajax, Crimplesham and Polyphant. Not to mention young Ferring, Crimplesham's nephew, who ends up "outranking" his uncle!

I have a relative who had a baby recently and named him Hugo. AFAIK she's not a Heyer reader, but the name seems to be coming back in. Love it.

Maybe you could introduce her to her child's namesake!

Margaret wrote: "As for valets, the first ones that spring to my mind are the "dueling valets" in The Unknown Ajax, Crimplesham and Polyphant. Not to mention young Ferring, Crimplesham's nephew, who e..."

Ah those dueling valets - they brought a lot of the humour to that story!

Abigail wrote: "Maybe you could introduce her to her child's namesake!"

Yes, I might do that :)

this post doesn't exactly go in this thread, but I couldn't find a different place for it that works so here we go:

I am currently reading The Mating Season and amused that one of the minor characters is named Hilda Gudgeon!

I believe this is the first time I've run into the word gudgeon outside of a Heyer novel.

A gudgeon is a freshwater fish.

Having just read Sylvester I was thinking of Edmund getting in trouble for calling Sir Nugent a ridiculous gudgeon.

Critterbee❇ wrote: "I think that the poor butlers have some of the worst names - Buddle, Whimple, Grimshaw, Butterbank, Skelton, Stobhill, Pennymore, Mortimer, Groombridge..."

GH must have used a good atlas when she was creating her names - they're all villages in the UK. Groombridge is near Tunbridge Wells, Butterbank near Stafford etc. I love how she manages to find aristocratic-sounding names for the gentry and comical, common names for the servants.

Barbara wrote: "Critterbee❇ wrote: "I think that the poor butlers have some of the worst names - Buddle, Whimple, Grimshaw, Butterbank, Skelton, Stobhill, Pennymore, Mortimer, Groombridge..."

GH must have used a ..."

Driving round the UK I always note names from GH's novels. On our recent trip to Cornwall I spotted Delabole, Scorrier, St Erth, Carlyon, Polyphant

Refresh my memory- which book had a Delabole?

Isn't he the doctor in Cousin Kate? I've mislaid my copy, so I can't check.

Rosina wrote: "Isn't he the doctor in Cousin Kate? I've mislaid my copy, so I can't check."

I can't remember - this is one of the few GH books I've only read three or four times. Our group read is coming up in May though.

Me too - I know I have a copy, but it's not on the Heyer shelf, so I must have taken it down to check something and put it away upside down on another shelf ... I will try to find it for the group read, though it's one of my least favourites.

Rosina wrote: "Isn't he the doctor in Cousin Kate? I've mislaid my copy, so I can't check."

yes, that is the doctor in Cousin Kate.

In the old listserv someone told us about an author who called all her male characters "John" because they were too unimportant to her to merit any great thought ... and that was in one book!

Jennifer Kloester pointed out in her book that GH used place names for her characters a lot, not least because it prevented her being sued if someone felt insulted – iIrc someone did actually try to sue her. He had the same name as Belinda's uncle in The Foundling.

All the same GH's names always conjure up a fairly precise image of the characters, at least for me. Polyphant is a case in point...

In my own writing I have to admit I've been re-cycling the names for the butlers and valets! Not in the same book, of course, but still I'll have to mend that ... with just one book published it's not a problem, but I can't have them all migrate to a different story, can I now ;-). I've been thinking of having a challenge for people to suggest suitable names.

I thought that Polyphant was a Greek word - obviously connected with sycophant. I was quite surprised to find it was a village in Cornwall, with presumably a celtic/Cornish derivation.

Rosina wrote: "I thought that Polyphant was a Greek word - obviously connected with sycophant. I was quite surprised to find it was a village in Cornwall, with presumably a celtic/Cornish derivation."

As the (somewhat sexist) saying goes: "By Tre-, Pol- and Pen- shall you know Cornish men"!

Rosina wrote: "I thought that Polyphant was a Greek word - obviously connected with sycophant."

So did I, and I reckon that's why GH chose that particular place name for that particular character... Just like Dr Delabole irresistibly makes me think "diabolical".

oh, very good - both of those!

Elizabeth wrote: "In the old listserv someone told us about an author who called all her male characters "John" because they were too unimportant to her to merit any great thought ... and that was in one book! "

Persuasion is thoroughly overloaded with Charleses! Mary's husband and son, Henrietta's beau and Mrs Smith's late husband ... it makes you wonder why an author who could imagine all these characters was stumped when it came to thinking of names for them.

And Sense and Sensibility has a lot of Johns. (But not johns!)

Abigail wrote: "And Sense and Sensibility has a lot of Johns. (But not johns!)"

John was probably the most popular English man's name for many years. And Mary for women.

I like Julian and Julius ... can't remember which books exactly but they stick out for me since they're close to my name :P

One of the things that struck me recently, thinking back across Heyer's books, is how infrequently (if ever?) she reuses names, even across such a wide corpus of books. It helps when your male characters mostly go by their surnames, of course - you wouldn't expect the same surnames across different novels unless the characters were intentionally related - but even something as simple as 'George' (Wrotham) in "Friday's Child"... well, are there any other Georges? Not that I can think of as significant minor characters.

I can think of two Harriets, Perry's 'little brown mouse' in Regency Buck and the not dissimilar Lady Harriet Presteigne in The Foundling. Apart from that, do any other female character names get repeated?

I think she reuses Augusta as shorthand for an older woman with a great deal of dignity and reserve as well as unusual perceptivity.

Off the top of my head I can think of two Fannys: Serena Carlow's stepmother and Abigail Wendover's niece. But I agree that when Heyer does reuse first names, it's usually for secondary characters. George, for instance (a common men's name in the period) is used not only for Lord Wrotham, but for both Richard Wyndham's and Abigail Wendover's brothers-in-law, and Lady Buxted's younger son (though I don't think we ever actually meet him). And I think men's names get repeated more often than women's, which also seems true to period.

Both Lady Cardross (April Lady) and Nell Stornaway (The Tollgate) are Nell - Lady C is Helen, but I'm not sure about Nell Stornaway. And I suppose Kitty in Cotillion and Cousin Kate are both Catherine.

For men, we have two major Anthonys - Sherry (Friday's Child) and Sir Anthony Fanshawe (The Masqueraders) and from the latter book, a Robin, presumably a Robert like Beaumaris. And Charles Audley (The Infamous Army) and Charles in the Grand Sophy. As Margaret says, men's names are more likely to be repeated.

really, that isn't a lot of repeats consider the number of novels she's written.

Nell Stornaway is “Helen,” like Lady Cardross. It’s mentioned I think one x in the book that she’s Helen.

I am just happy that no one is called Raven, or Storm, or Chardonnay.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Nell Stornaway is “Helen,” like Lady Cardross. It’s mentioned I think one x in the book that she’s Helen."

(view spoiler)[It's when she and Jack get married that she's referred to as 'Helen' (hide spoiler)]

Rosina wrote: "I am just happy that no one is called Raven, or Storm, or Chardonnay."

Hahaha. Or Diesel, Kash, Charlene, Brittany-Maree......

One could go on........

BTW, I did read a HR years ago (set in early 1800s England) with a heroine named Charlene. Can't remember the book, but the name just did not fit!

Igenlode wrote: "It helps when your male characters mostly go by their surnames, of course ..."

That's so true! It's easy to use authentic first names like George and Charles when the characters are referred to by their surnames or a nickname based on their surname, like Sherry. And was it Evelyn in Flying Colours who confused matters even further when, upon waking from his coma, he gave his family rather than his titled name, which he hadn't yet got used to?

My Mom was saying that sometimes Heyer reminded her of Tolstoy, where everyone has at least three different names, and then the men go and address each other as "dovey"! (I read that in German, so I'm not sure what that is in Russian or English ;-))

Doris wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Nell Stornaway is “Helen,” like Lady Cardross. It’s mentioned I think one x in the book that she’s Helen."

[spoilers removed]"

Right Doris! That’s when we find out she’s “Helen.”

And was it Evelyn in Flying Colours who confused matters even further when, upon waking from his coma, he gave his family rather than his titled name, which he hadn't yet got used to?
In his delirium he gives his Christian name rather than his surname or his title, and - the author having carefully selected an ambiguous name! - they assume he must be a "Mr. Evelyn" rather than a Fancot...

Jan wrote: "Rosina wrote: "I am just happy that no one is called Raven, or Storm, or Chardonnay."

Hahaha. Or Diesel, Kash, Charlene, Brittany-Maree......
..."

There's both a Tracy and a Stacy, though! ;-)

Jenny wrote: There's both a Tracy and a Stacy, though!

Both of whom are men! :D

Elizabeth wrote: "Igenlode wrote: "It helps when your male characters mostly go by their surnames, of course ..."

That's so true! It's easy to use authentic first names like George and Charles when the characters a..."

My first Heyer was "Cotillion", and I remember I got confused the first time because at some point Freddie goes by a different name (Mr Standen), then I figured it was because his father is still alive so he can't use the title (Lord Legerwood) (I guess).

Moloch wrote: My first Heyer was "Cotillion", and I remember I got confused the first time because at some point Freddie goes by a different name (Mr Standen), then I figured it was because his father is still alive so he can't use the title (Lord Legerwood) (I guess)

That's right; Freddy won't be "(Lord) Legerwood" until his father dies, an event we all hope will be far in the future! And since the Legerwood title is just a viscountcy, there isn't a "second-best" title attached to it for Freddy to use as a courtesy title (the way "[Marquis of] Vidal" is used as a courtesy title for the heir of the Duke of Avon).

As the son of a Viscount, Freddy would be styled "The Honourable Frederick Standen," but that's only used in the most formal of settings (e.g. formal letters).

Margaret wrote: "an event we all hope will be far in the future"

ah yes :-)

Igenlode wrote: "In his delirium he gives his Christian name rather than his surname or his title, and - the author having carefully selected an ambiguous name! - they assume he must be a "Mr. Evelyn" rather than a Fancot... ."

Of course, that was it! He thought he was saying his catechism... Thanks!

Moloch wrote: "Margaret wrote: "an event we all hope will be far in the future"

ah yes :-)"

Have a heart, he's over 200 years old already ;-)

Abigail wrote: "I think she reuses Augusta as shorthand for an older woman with a great deal of dignity and reserve as well as unusual perceptivity."
I don't think so - it's the name of Miss Penistone, the companion to Sylvester's mother, and she is a babbling twit with no perceptivity at all! I get the feeling 'Augusta' tends to be a name with generally negative connotations, though I can't remember any others off hand - though wasn't it the name of the sister in one of the short stories who went into hysterics and had to have water thrown over her when the heroine bagged the Biggest Prize in the Marriage Mart?