Time Travel discussion

Recursion

Memory makes reality.

That’s what New York City cop Barry Sutton is learning as he investigates the devastating phenomenon the media has dubbed False Memory Syndrome—a mysterious affliction that drives its victims mad with memories of a life they never lived.

That's what neuroscientist Helena Smith believes. It’s why she’s dedicated her life to creating a technology that will let us preserve our most precious memories. If she succeeds, anyone will be able to re-experience a first kiss, the birth of a child, the final moment with a dying parent.

As Barry searches for the truth, he comes face-to-face with an opponent more terrifying than any disease—a force that attacks not just our minds but the very fabric of the past. And as its effects begin to unmake the world as we know it, only he and Helena, working together, will stand a chance at defeating it.

But how can they make a stand when reality itself is shifting and crumbling all around them?


The September/October book. I have already read it and started this thread originally in the Time Travel Books general thread. I moved it here to continue the discussion. Below is my original post:

I quite enjoyed it. A different take on time travel. I thought it was a fast-paced and fun book.

Has anyone heard of The Mandela Effect? It plays a part in this book.

Goodreads has an interview with Blake Crouch on his new book:

https://www.goodreads.com/interviews/...

I had not heard of the Mandela Effect, but I have heard of False Memory, and the wikipedia article that says they're the same thing points to some interesting explorations.

The blurb for the book turns me off with words like thriller and action-packed. I absolutely prefer more thoughtful stories that require careful reading and provoke a desire for analysis & discussion. If you can tell me that the blurb is more hype-ful than accurate I'd consider reading it (but I didn't like DM so ... hm...).

Cheryl wrote: "I had not heard of the Mandela Effect, but I have heard of False Memory, and the wikipedia article that says they're the same thing points to some interesting explorations.

The blurb for the book ..."

Did you try the preview on the book’s Goodreads page?

Was Dark Matter the only book you have read of his?

I wouldn’t consider it a thriller. One character is a police detective but it’s not a police procedural either. It’s hard to say anything else about the character without giving anything away. I think there was really only one section that had “action.” Some parts were slower paced and others faster paced.

Thank you.

I just finished part one. I though this book was going to be about memory, with the usual evil corporate rich guy and the good cop, etc. but it's taking a whole new twist.

So, if this wins the poll, does this thread become the discussion thread?

Cheryl wrote: "So, if this wins the poll, does this thread become the discussion thread?"

Good question. I hadn’t even thought about. I was just going to open a discussion thread. I can probably move this one...

I have this on my Kindle, so will be starting once finished my current book in about a weeks time.

Just finished the book— read it in a day though having a broken foot lends itself to marathon reading...

If you could go into the last and “fix” one thing on your timeline would you? Do you believe that fix would ultimately change your trajectory or is it likely that in the long run things wouldn’t be that much different for you?

That’s a hard one...if you fix one thing, what if things are worse and not better? Or something just as bad happens instead? Every time you make one change, how does it affect other things that maybe you don’t want to change?

Things that affect you on an emotional level would be easier to jump without thinking and say yes, I want to go back and change that.

One thing? I would like to change 100!

Even though I love time travel, I wouldn't change anything in my own personal life, because even the bad things that happened to me helped me to become who I am today, and I like it who I am today.

Gotta agree with Dean--I know I "should have--could have " done things that would not only help me but others as well...BUT hind sight is always perfect...

I'm starting this tonight - I really hope this book ticks all the boxes for me.

Other than a couple of short Roald Dahl re-reads I haven't given 5* to a single book I have read this year, and time's running out!

I'm about a third in, and really enjoying it so far. It is certainly a bit of a wild ride.

I'm not sure if I have got my head around certain aspects of it yet though. I'm starting to question 'how could that be' to a few scenarios, so I am hoping that doesn't get to the the extent it spoils my enjoyment of the book.

Dean wrote: "I'm about a third in, and really enjoying it so far. It is certainly a bit of a wild ride.

I'm not sure if I have got my head around certain aspects of it yet though. I'm starting to question 'ho..."

There was a few places that I did the same thing, but those issues I think they explained. Not sure if it’s the same scenarios. Keep reading.

I just finished it, and I'll say the last two-thirds doesn't get any less trippy.

I was satisfied with the way he wrapped up all the problem areas I saw early on.

Twice in the last few pages, our main character has uttered "What the f*** is going on". I concur!

The book is giving me a headache - a pain right behind my eyes. Next thing I know, I will get a nosebleed, and emerge in a new reality where I am back on page 1...

Dean wrote: "Twice in the last few pages, our main character has uttered "What the f*** is going on". I concur!

The book is giving me a headache - a pain right behind my eyes. Next thing I know, I will get a n..."

I hope that means you are enjoying it!

I finished this yesterday and it certainly was a wild ride. Many things were wrapped up well and overall, I liked the ending. It was definitely a page turner, and I found my chest tightening with the anticipation of what was going to happen next.

I think there were still a number of things that made little sense (as in, why would they do that), but the story moved on so quickly that I didn't dwell on these too much, and they didn't spoil my enjoyment of the book.

This was 4.5 stars for me, as it gave me nearly everything I need. I looked forward to picking it up again, it immersed me in the story and it made me think. I have rounded up to 5 for once as my aim to get my average score up to 3.5 this year was not working out, with it going in the wrong direction!

The following plot point got me wondering:

(view spoiler)[ In the life-time that Helena decided not to find Barry (to spend more time with her parents), she just told him something like 'she didn't find love'. Now, I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have had some kind of relationship(s) with men throughout that life, so I was thinking if I was Barry in that situation, would I feel a bit betrayed? As Barry always wanted Helena to come and find him, would any relationships she had, effectively be affairs?

Now, of course Barry ended up with his wife from the original time-line, but as Barry had no recollection of previous time-lines or Helena until the final day, it's clearly not the same.

- (hide spoiler)]

Example of minor things in plot that I found it hard to buy:

(view spoiler)[

On the last day of each time-line, as everyone got their previous memories back and all hell started to kick off, why would Barry and Helena not make sure they didn't leave the chair, so that they could quickly reset time no matter what happened.

They only just managed to make it back in one life, when the helicopter and troops came for them, but then done something very similar in the next timeline and only just made it back - I get it added some tension, but found it hard to believe they would make this same mistake twice.

(hide spoiler)]

When all was said and done, this was the biggest head-scratcher for me. It's an example of "Why did this happen?" Well, it's because the author needed it to happen to supply tension and momentum in this section of the book.

I could understand them being caught off-guard the first time, but subsequent lives? Didn't work for me.

Barry has just gone to see Joe Behrman. My theory? (view spoiler)[Joe has gone back in time to save his first wife’s life, causing his relationship with Ann to never have happened. The schism in their memories is due to his change of the timeline. I think Joe remembers Ann and Sam but can’t acknowledge them. (hide spoiler)]

I finished this one yesterday and I enjoyed it tremendously. With stories like this, it is easy to beat the gimmick to death and spiral into a lame and disappointing ending. Crouch does an excellent job of exploring the story and then wrapping it up in a way that feels right and also satisfying.

There weren't many things that didn't line up for me. One thing though: (view spoiler)[Near the end when Barry washes down a bunch of oxy with whiskey but then remembers something he could do to fix the timeline, why didn't he just make himself throw up to ensure he'd have enough time to use the chair? (hide spoiler)] I also thought (view spoiler)[the first few timelines when Barry and Helena were trying to prevent the schematics for the chair from leaking seemed like padding because the author didn't explain what they were doing specifically to stop the event from coming, only saying that they were unsuccessful. (hide spoiler)]

I thought the story was told cinematically and if they could do it right (with aging the characters, etc.) it would make a great movie.

I'm just starting this very late in the game. How could I resist one of my favorite writers when Cheryl mentioned the Mandela Effect? False memories. Interesting concept. Have any of you read up on the Mandela Effect? I love these examples: here. The interesting thing is that they're mainly examples of faulty memories based on expectations. We write things in to fill in what we want to see. Or we hear one piece of news and overlay it on top of another piece of news from the same time period (like these other South Africans who died in prison instead of Mandela).

I like the idea of the Mandela Effect being proof of an alternate universe that branched off at a certain point and only some of us have memories of it. But I don't really believe it. I just think we all have bad memories even if I would swear that it was the Berenstein Bears rather than the Berenstain Bears.

But even in our own lives, we do this. My dad is notorious for rewriting history. He recounted a story to me from my high school days that was completely wrong. My car broke down in City A, not City B. I was not escorted by police. But then, I start to question my own memory. Am I the one that has the false memory or is it my dad? I have several hooks to my story: being late to work because of the car trouble so it had to be City A and never having encountered any police in high school except military police when I was lost on a military base and couldn't find my way out. But the more I think about it, the more I start to doubt both of our versions of the story.

And then there's the ability of people to plant false memories. Interesting article here: "A ‘Memory Hacker’ Explains How to Plant False Memories in People’s Minds". I like this quote in the article about memories: "I like to say that all memories are essentially false. They're either a little bit false, or entirely false. There are entire experiences that never happened." In the present and the future, all that's left for us of an experience is a memory, and we're constantly rewriting it. Some things only exist anywhere in our own brains.

Agh! All this and I haven't even started to read the book yet.

What do you think about the Mandela Effect?

Tell me about your experience with false memories.

I am definitely a Berenstein Bears kid, and the "stain" thing blew my mind when it got brought up a few years ago. Also I'm pretty sure Freddie Mercury does sing "Of the world" in "We are the champions," although maybe it isn't at the very end.

The Mandela effect reminds me of another time travel book called The Company of the Dead by David Kowalski. In it, some people remember the Titanic docking in New York.

Samantha wrote: "I am definitely a Berenstein Bears kid, and the "stain" thing blew my mind when it got brought up a few years ago. Also I'm pretty sure Freddie Mercury does sing "Of the world" in "We are the champ..."

Yes, the Berenstein Bears one was the only one that really blew my mind because I was absolutely SURE it was spelled that way and NOT Berenstain like it sounds. I had to dig out a book from my kid's bookshelf just to make sure. But then I realized that if I am in this world that a physical artifact would be true to this reality, not my remembered reality. But, in the end, I have to acquiesce to the idea that I'm just remembering incorrectly.

"We are the champions of the world" is in the song, but in the middle. So I think that's a bad example.

Regarding the Titanic book ... It's interesting how the concept of alternate histories and time travel and parallel universes are so intricately intertwined.

Well, I'm not going to finish this by the end of the day. Time travel by (view spoiler)[death (hide spoiler)]. Interesting concept. I guess I'd like it better than teleportation where my consciousness would be completely destroyed and a new version of myself would be created with my old memories but never be truly myself. I don't know that I could ever be on board with this sort of time travel unless life had become unbearable because of one fork in the road.

I chose a huge fork in the road this summer which has had a number of negative and positive domino effects for other people. I would have always made that decision. You rarely just affect one thing at a huge fork in the road. But I wouldn't want to go back. Fast forward 10 years and we'll see if I still feel that way. Or maybe I'm just selfish because I'm on the positive side of the decision. But how would I feel about someone else going back and trying to change my choice? Not so good. I think I like the idea of time travel being limited to a small number of people. Too many people going back and trying to make changes would be chaotic, especially if we all remembered the other versions of life. We'd all become kind of schizophrenic. It would be hard to know what was real in the now and what was a memory of a world that no longer exists.

Amy wrote: "especially if we all remembered the other versions of life. We'd all become kind of schizophrenic..."

It’s that what kind of happened though? The more people changed things, the more people remembered the “before”.” The bugger the change, the more people it affected.

Amy, you can always come back when you finish. I think a book discussion is always open for anyone to come back to.

Wow, Amy, that"s *exactly* the premise of Robert Silverberg's short story "Needle in a Timestack", that was originally published in a 80's "Playboy" (!) issue (and that -- I've just found out -- it's becoming a movie). Very worthy a read!

I didn't like this book much, for dozens of reasons. I wrote a review detailing my problems with it, but it was too long to post. So let me know if you're interested in knowing what I had to say. I'll friend you and share my thoughts.