Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

I do not really believe in the idea of a genre cannon that some people perpetuate, the idea that to be a fan, to have an opinion, to have opinions worth listening to you must have read, a,b,c,d....x,y and z. However in the vastness that is the genre field and the huge share of it that is accessible to us with online sellers, ebooks and online sources that recommend authors to us far more probably than we have time to read at least with all the other distractions that are out there.

Like most people my to read list is huge and I thought it would be interesting to share, discuss and recommend genre writers we have not yet tried.

For me:-

Ian Macdonald - only read one or two short stories by him - need to give a novel of his a try. Not sure what to start with but have Dervish House, Cyberbad Days, Brasyl and River of Gods

Michael Chabon has written a few things on the edge of the genre and I have been meaning to give at least one of these a proper try. My wife has most of his books.

Peter Watts - I have read his story The Things and it didnt really do much for me but I am not generally a fan of reworkings from different perspectives. I do really want to give Blindside a try.

Robert Charles Wilson - heard great things about Spin

Octavia Butler - dipped into one or two of her books and like her writing style but not even read a short story of hers - not sure where to start but know it is high up my list of authors to try.

Then there are a huge bunch of others Geoff Ryman, KJ Bishop, Robert Holdstock, Karen Lord, Ken Macleod, Kameron Hurley, Emma Bull, Kirstyn McDermott, etc. etc.

And that is not even getting onto the authors for whom I have read just one novel, one or two stories who have vast cannons of work I would likely love.

The subject is a little depressing, given the length of my to-read list.

Also a little embarrassing, because there are three major fantasy writers with large following and lengthy list of novels but I have just never read for some reason: David Gemmell, L.E. Modesitt Jr. & Tad Williams.

I've been doing pretty well on my New Author Explorer Challenge this year, but I haven't gotten to those biggies!

There's a part of me leftover from my school years that hears, "Read this, it's good and important," and it thinks, "Ugh! Nope!" This is the mindset I have to overcome before I will be reading a bunch of the books on my TBR.

I own but avoid reading -

Philip K. Dick, Jules Verne, HG Wells, Ray Bradbury,(I seem to have a weird prejudice against late 19th/early 20th century writing) Robert E. Howard, Lord Dunsany,
Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros,
Peake's The Gormenghast Novels,
Crowley's Little, Big,
Helprin's Winter's Tale.

Books I've tried several times and put down but haven't totally given up on -

Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco,
Silverlock by John Myers Myers,
Neuromancer by William Gibson,
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson,
The Mabinogion Tetralogy by Evangaline Walton.

Books I just haven't gotten around to yet -

Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné series,
Pratchett's Discworld (I read The Color of Magic back in the 80s),
The Stainless Steel Rat by Harry Harrison,
The Forever War by Joe Haldeman,
Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson,
The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid/The Golden Apple/Leviathan by Robert Shea,
Tea with the Black Dragon by RA MacAvoy,
Plus more I can't think of right now :)

I only heard about Callahan's Crosstime Saloon this week, it sounds a fun read I might check out sometime.

I think with Peake, Silverlock, Crowley, the worm ourborous and Eco they are all very distinctive writing styles that are a bit marmite-like in how people respond to them. With The Worm Ourborous you have to put up with the awkward way the story starts and be a bit patient to get used to its style. It is inspired by early Romances (action adventure stories often with magical elements) although is set in a secondary world. It is full of over the top activities and if you approach it with the right mindset a huge amount of fun. I loved it but noone I have recommended it to thus far has stuck with it.

I am not sure about the Modesitt - I read a couple of his fantasies but didnt care for him much but you might have a higher tolerance for his shortcomings as a writer than I do G33z3r - I can really see you liking at least the Dragonbone chair series by Tad Williams (his Bobby Dollar series is very different) and would think you would probably enjoy Gemmell - all are easy reads.

Michele wrote: "There's a part of me leftover from my school years that hears, "Read this, it's good and important," and it thinks, "Ugh! Nope!"..."

Yeah, me too. I've either read or tried to read almost all of the writers you mentioned. It is hard to discuss some aspects of the genres without having read a few of the staples, though. Not having read 1984 or any Conan is pretty crippling, but I'm certainly not going to read them all.

"Gormenghast" has always been impenetrable for me. I start reading or listening to it & instantly my mind wanders. I've never gotten very far in it. After a couple of tries, I did finally read The Worm Ouroboros, but still don't know what's so special about it.

Wells, Verne, & such are better for me when I put their stories into historical perspective. I don't care for their writing style at all, though. Interestingly, Gibson now falls into the 'historical perspective' category for me. I read Neuromancer when it first came out & was blown away. It was one of the reasons I found computers fascinating way back before they were cool. Last time I tried reading it, it fell flat, though. It was awesome in its time & for a serious student of SF or literature, I think it's a must-read, but not for a person who is reading for fun.

Silverlock was quite readable, but it's a modern retelling of the The Odyssey by Homer to look at a modern man & his first world problems. Pretty cool, but I haven't met many that have read it. Dick's writing has never turned me on, although he has cool ideas. He's one of the few authors where I've enjoyed the movie versions better, however flawed they might be in a purists' eyes.

I think Robert E. Howard & Edgar Rice Burroughs are more for guys, especially teenage or younger ones. Both Marg & Erin have read a little by both & never cared for either while my boys & I have read almost all their books. I still like Howard's writing today, but don't care much for ERB's any more. Been there, done that. Also Karl Edward Wagner took heroic-horror fantasy to a new level that they just can't touch.

I really like Modesitt's writing. His attention to economies & limited magic systems are great. His love interests suck, but everyone in my family likes his fantasies. The girls don't care for his SF, but all the boys like it. We all like David Eddings fantasies, too.

Callahan's Crosstime Saloon is excellent too, but the books swiftly went downhill from there, IMO. Some of the charm was growing up in the area & reading it when it first came out, though. It helps when both time & place augment a book.

Reading Starship Troopers & The Forever War is very interesting IF you put them into historical perspective along with the authors' biographies. At least I found it interesting since I grew up reading Heinlein & thought he could do no wrong. After my own service & Heinlein's post 1970 writing, I found Haldeman's book closer to my own attitudes. For me, both were important books. That's just me, though.

Perhaps that's what should drive your reading - what does or might the story mean to you? What comes up in conversation enough that it might be worthwhile attempting to read? If you're not interested in how SF or heroic fantasy progressed through the ages & read just for the current story, there is no reason to read the older stuff unless you like it, although it does help to have read them for conversations & comparisons.

I love Frederic Brown's short work, his novels aren't bad either (I am speaking of his SF work, haven't read his mysteries)...I have read alot of it, but not all...about a year ago I got a two volume set of his complete SF work, I been meaning to read em cover-to-cover, but stuff keeps coming up...

Michele wrote: "Books I've tried several times and put down..."

I think my list would be a lot longer if I included authors I wanted to read but discovered they were not to my taste.


Jim wrote: "Gormenghas' has always been impenetrable for me. I start reading or listening to it & instantly my mind wanders. I've never gotten very far in it...."

Yeah, Titus Groan is one that stymied me, too. Glad I'm not alone. It's one of those books Michelle described as "Read this, it's good and important." In my young and impressionable days, I was slower to give up on eating my spinach.

Ben wrote: "Peter Watts - .... I do really want to give ( Blindsight ) a try......."

Me, too. I put it on my Kindle (he has it as a freebie on his website), and wanted to try it before thinking about Echopraxia.

"... give up on eating my spinach." Great way to put it & very true.

I look through the top 100 lists occasionally & I'm not terribly interested in reading any more than I already have. I think they're voted on name recognition or old memories most of the time. Many authors are over-represented while some of the ones I've enjoyed the most are missing entirely - both books & authors.

I don't understand why there aren't more Zelazny fans. I'd think the English scholars who love to look for 'deeper meaning' & subtle allusions would be in heaven reading his stuff, but I rarely see him mentioned. IMO, A Rose for Ecclesiastes is every bit as good as The Martian Chronicles while most of Zelazny's is pretty close to incomparable. His unique blend of genres, unique styles, subtle sense of humor, & economy of words is unmatched by any other author I've read. His books are so good that I can reread them every few years & get something new out of them each time. I've rarely seen a book discussion as successful as those of A Night in the Lonesome October. It's a lot of fun as well as a lunatic scavenger hunt through our folklore & history.

With The Worm Ourboros - I loved it but I think it is a book that will appeal to a minority of tastes. It is hugely historically important as one of the very first secondary world fantasies in it taking its inspiration from early action Romances - with its over the top heroes completing over the top feats and challenges. The language and much more besides is dated and it takes a bit to get going. Other than for people interested in the history of the genre most people are best leaving it alone.

With the Gormenghast books the ploting of the first book is a bit weak and potentially confusing and there is no clear narrative drive moving the story forward. People who find the language, the over generous time given to description, the over the top characters frustrating do not have a clear hook to get them through it. The second and third books have much clearer narrative drives and are much easier reading. I love all the Gormenghast books but they are for a small niche of readers who love his humor, his over the top grotesque writing, characters and gothic setting. For them it is a unique and deeply special work but for most it is a classic that isnt for them.

There are lots of books hailed as classics of the genre and certainly are historically important but are very much pulps - which tend to lead to hastily written, over the top action, frequent cliff hangers (in longer works), frequently derivative (plot/character stealing, undeveloped and archetypal heros etc) very much show their age (look at books such as King Solomons Mines, Tarzan, Conan from a modern perspective in terms of race, gender and just writing style). Still for many they will be very entertaining but wont be right for all.

My challenge is not so much with these marmite-like books but just to remember and encourage myself to finally getting round to reading lots of books that are probably great, I have been meaning to read for ages and I will probably love.

I agree about Zelazny - underrated and underread.

We will need to nominate and vote for Blindside sometime for book of the month.

I tend to read a little bit of everything now. There was a time a couple of decades ago when I would read any scrap of paper with Stephen King's name on it but I have since expanded my horizons, but I've not expanded quite far enough as here are some of the authors I see and hear mentioned ALL the time but I have yet to read anything of *hangs head in shame*:
- Robert Heinlein
- Isaac Asimov
- John Scalzi
- China Mielville
- George R R Martin
-Frank Herbert
There are many more but these are the ones that stick out for me

Looking through all these lists...makes me realize how behind I am in my reading. -_-

I'm not familiar with "Blindside", Ben. Can you link to it. Lots of books by that name.

K.F., I think we're all behind on our reading. It's a wonderful problem!
:)

looking at my creaking and groaning Stephen King bookshelf ( yes, he has his own shelf, and it needs to be expanded) it pains me to think how far behind I am on my King reading...he writes to darn fast....

thinking of the peter watts for blindside . can't link on the tablet

Blindsight by Peter Watts? Looks interesting.

Jim wrote: "Blindsight by Peter Watts? Looks interesting."

As mentioned before, one of the free ebooks on his website. (Creativee Commons, several formats.) Also Starfish, Maelstrom & Behemoth.

(Also, some of his non-fiction commentaries are nasty fun, e.g. "The Hierarchy of Contempt".)

Thanks!

Yeah I got Blindside for free - it was on one of the ebook shops linked to an ereader app on my tablet so I knew there was some sort of creative commons on the tablet. It is one of hte most talked about books this century and its high on various lists - although its freely available ness might be part of the factor rather than just its awesomeness but the reviews for it are pretty strong.