The Sword and Laser discussion

So Natasha will be back in May 2020 for a prequel. Interesting. Now we know why she didn’t get a funeral in Endgame and Tony did: she’s got another movie while Iron Man is done.

What’s known so far:

- There are multiple Black Widows
- It will be the most action-heavy MCU film to date
- It takes place between Civil War and Infinity War
- David Harbour of Stranger Things and Hellboy 3 is playing Red Guardian
- The bad guy is Taskmaster (who is awesome)

That’s it.

I suspect that there will also be flashbacks like the one from Ultron. I think it would be cool if they introduce Spider-Woman, but there are other international spy-heroes they could use. How cool would it be to low-key intro Marc Spector, aka Moon Knight? Spector is a mercenary, so he can slot neatly into that shady world of espionage.

Ooh! Sharon Carter! Yes, please!

Last I heard it's rumoured that Sharon Carter might show up in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series they're making for Disney+ (Disney's upcoming streaming service)--which will also feature the return of Zemo--but she's not confirmed yet.

Trike wrote: "- David Harbour of Stranger Things and Hellboy 3 is playing Red Guardian."

It is funny that Harbour is playing a character called Alexei.

That's the name of the guy Chief Hopper kept forgetting and called Smirnoff instead.

I wonder if it that was a writer's in-joke :-)

Trike wrote: "Now we know why she didn’t get a funeral in Endgame and Tony did: she’s got another movie while Iron Man is done."

I'm confused about this statement...is she not really dead?

The Black Widow movie is a prequel to Endgame. So she hasn't sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone yet.

According to the writers, even the Infinity Stones can't undo her sacrifice. So she is dead, dead dead...well, unless they want to bring her back. Even Warlock got out of the Soul Stone and he harvested his *own* soul into it.

John (Taloni) wrote: "The Black Widow movie is a prequel to Endgame. So she hasn't sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone yet."

Oh, ok; I just don't understand why that relates to her not getting a funeral then.

People (me among them) complained that despite the two major deaths in Black Widow and Iron Man, only Iron Man got a funeral.

Trike is just referencing that fact when saying essentially "hey it's okay that this movie didn't give her a funeral scene because we're still going to see her (albeit in a prequel)."

I don't think it actually counteracts the issue of not giving Black Widow a funeral regardless, though.

Caitlin wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "The Black Widow movie is a prequel to Endgame. So she hasn't sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone yet."

Oh, ok; I just don't understand why that relates to her not getting a..."

I suspect that there will be some sort of coda in BW to address this, and they already had it planned out when filming Endgame. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of memorial wall that honors fallen operatives which is shown early on in the movie to underscore the dangers of this life and that at the end (or in post-credits) we see Natasha added to the wall.

The one frustrating aspect of the MCU, as amazing as it is, is that we have to wait so long between installments. We get Set Up... wait two years... Pay Off. For instance, Thor’s scene in Age of Ultron didn’t pay off until Ragnarok, more than two-and-a-half years later, when we also found out what happened to Hulk.

David wrote: "People (me among them) complained that despite the two major deaths in Black Widow and Iron Man, only Iron Man got a funeral.

Trike is just referencing that fact when saying essentially "hey it's okay that this movie didn't give her a funeral scene because we're still going to see her (albeit in a prequel)."

I don't think it actually counteracts the issue of not giving Black Widow a funeral regardless, though."

I’m not saying the lack of a funeral for her is okay, as I, too, felt she was somewhat slighted. I say “somewhat” because she wasn’t ignored, just not treated with the pomp that Tony was. All I’m saying is that this movie is probably why they didn’t do one, as they already had this in the pipeline.

FWIW Robert Downey Jr. created the MCU. Without his incredible acting in Iron Man there's no push for more. Then when Disney wanted to screw over the other actors, he gave up his own pay so they could have more. It pays off for both sides as the call for more movies provides more paydays. Over and over again, the MCU is what it is because of him. So the big funeral scene makes sense. We are as much paying tribute to Robert Downey Jr. as to Iron Man.

This is a guy who pays his debts. Out of jail for drug use and trying to make a comeback, the guy who wrote Lethal Weapon (Shane Black) cast him in a noir detective art film. Robert Downey Jr. couldn't be insured but Shane Black believed in him and cast him anyway. That role restarted Robert Downey Jr.'s career. Years later, Downey arranges for Black to direct Iron Man 3. Black walks away with tens of millions of dollars on the back end. Robert Downey Jr. is loved, and with good reason.

I would have been super excited for a Black Widow movie... in about 2015. Now, it just feels... anticlimactic. BW was not well-served by Endgame, and now we’re expected to cheer for a post-mortem prequel? Ok. Sounds fake but ok.

Tbh I find myself feeling like a Grumpy Fandom Old with all these MCU announcements because it all just makes me feel tired. More movies? TV shows on a new streaming service I gotta figure out how to watch without busting my bank account? When I haven’t yet fully processed my grief after Endgame? Maybe I’ll just watch Captain America: the Winter Soldier again.

Ruth wrote: "I would have been super excited for a Black Widow movie... in about 2015. Now, it just feels... anticlimactic. BW was not well-served by Endgame, and now we’re expected to cheer for a post-mortem prequel? Ok. Sounds fake but ok."

Yeah, I feel about the same. Perhaps there's some bigger picture I'm not seeing where the movie makes sense and I'll be really satisfied with it, but right now it sorta seems like they're too late on this one.

I do wonder a bit about MCU fatigue among the general population. For me, more is better because I’m such a fanboy. Growing up a Marvel kid and then going to film school and being interested in history, this whole thing has the overlapping Venn diagram of my interests a nearly perfect circle.

Plus the fact that from my perspective they’ve only made one bad movie and I’m excited for what comes next. A franchise that is 22-1 for grumpy old me? Unprecedented. Usually that’s inverted.

I think that with the exception of the missing memorial, Widow was well-served by her overall story arc in the Infinity Saga. The layers of her character revealed by each film were additive, making her sacrifice all the more powerful for me. A lot of people wanted Hawkeye to die because he hasn’t built up the goodwill Widow has, but that’s exactly why she was the better choice. Much more impactful that way.

But in the real world, this is also just a story. A few weeks ago, to the shock of everyone, including her twin brother, my friend Danielle killed herself. No one saw it coming and we’ve all been in a state of shock.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0RY5dmBvg7/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz81jNZB7X0/

Compounding that is the fact that I grew up in Dayton, Ohio, and you’ve probably seen the news lately. One of my pet causes for the past 25 years is gun control, and to have a mass shooting in my hometown on the very street where I have so many great memories is devastating.

By comparison, I’m not going to get too upset about a movie character. Real life is so much worse, and hurts so much more.

Trike wrote: "I do wonder a bit about MCU fatigue among the general population. For me, more is better because I’m such a fanboy. Growing up a Marvel kid and then going to film school and being interested in his.
But in the real world, this is also just a story. A few weeks ago, to the shock of everyone, including her twin brother, my friend Danielle killed herself. No one saw it coming and we’ve all been in a state of shock.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0RY5dmBvg7/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz81jNZB7X0/

Compounding that is the fact that I grew up in Dayton, Ohio, and you’ve probably seen the news lately. One of my pet causes for the past 25 years is gun control, and to have a mass shooting in my hometown on the very street where I have so many great memories is devastating..."

Trike, very sorry to hear of your friend’s death by suicide, and in the news the recent shooting in your home town.
I don’t think this is the place to get into a discussion of real world politics, but yeah, real life sucks.

Wow, Trike, that's terrible. Take care of yourself. We'll be here to talk minutae of entertainment when you feel like it, or if you need the distraction.

Thank you guys. It’s not like I needed more things to help me keep things in perspective, but the universe has decided to provide them anyway.