THE Group for Authors! discussion

Once upon a time, the lush and fertile gardens of literary success were encircled by a high and impregnable wall. The only way in was through a few narrow, closely guarded gates. Of the thousands scrambling for entry outside, only a tiny fraction would ever make it as far as the gatekeepers. Of those that did, a still tinier fraction would be granted entry.

But those in the gardens were content, for the gatekeepers, while able to assess only a fraction of the potential entrants, were at least able to maintain certain standards of quality, and the limited supply ensured that the spoils remained high enough for many inside to receive a cut.

Then one day, a mighty, fire-breathing dragon from Seattle flew clean over the wall, landing in the gardens and striking terror into the hearts of all. Feasting on the easy pickings within, the dragon grew larger and hungrier until its appetite outgrew the limited supply making it through the gates. Finally, with one thunderous fiery roar, the wall was incinerated, and with it, centuries of publishing tradition. Without the wall, thousands of new entrants flooded into the gardens un-vetted by the gatekeepers, and chaos ensued.

And this is probably where the mixed metaphor (along with the wall) breaks down. So where does that leave the gatekeepers of the traditional publishing industry?
Read More: http://www.readersintheknow.com/blog/...

We have dealt with many of the organizations this article covers. The enormous number of books entering the market weekly is simply more than any group could hope to filter or grade. Gatekeepers are the readers and the readers, much like the organizations, can only do so much.

We began with The Source Group here and have disbanded to begin a website to review and post the better SP reads. Unfortunately groups like ours, based on honesty and integrity are few.

Find us: https://theveritablefount.wordpress.com/

Simon wrote: "Once upon a time, the lush and fertile gardens of literary success were encircled by a high and impregnable wall. The only way in was through a few narrow, closely guarded gates. Of the thousands s..."

That is very storybook-like Simon, well done and good luck!:)

Thanks Caroline,
Yes, not sure what possessed me to open like that :) It just seemed like a fitting metaphor and a somewhat different way to start an article that covers some more serious points.
Glad you liked it.

I've shared your blog post with others, Simon. Great message.

Norm Hamilton, Writer, Copy-Editor, Proofreader
Author of From Thine Own Well , Sarah’s Embrace , The Digital Eye
Website
Email

Thanks Norm!

Interesting article. But to me it sounds like another gatekeeper trying to form. I admit that a lot of self-published work may not be quite up to quality standards (all trad published work isn't either btw) and it can be frustrating to Indie authors being grouped with that, especially when an author has taken the time, money, and effort to make his/her work as good as it can be. But I'm just not open to allowing another gatekeeper to tell me when or if my work is ready to give to the people. I don't see the benefit of freeing one's self from one prison, just to head smack dab into another one.

C. wrote: "...I'm just not open to allowing another gatekeeper to tell me when or if my work is ready to give to the people. I don't see the benefit of freeing one's self from one prison, just to head smack dab into another one. ..."

Many authors do publish excellent work, however the poor reputation of self-publishing means many readers will not pay for SP books. There are many badly written and badly edited books on the market - add to that some very unethical promotional behavior and you have problems convincing readers to trust any SP book.

I don't think gatekeepers in the sense of telling you whether you should publish or not is the point here. No one has the right to do that. Getting readers to read the books is going to require someone telling them which books are worth reading.

Nearly everyone I know is writing memoirs. There must be 6 different classes or groups doing that now. Same for poetry. Sadly, much of the output is dull,poorly written, and should be more or less for the satisfaction and eyes of a select few of the author's friends and family. However, to hear the writers' brag and toot their own horns, one would expect greatness. These people sell a few books at book fairs etc. Soon that book fair's credibility is gone and with it another chance for new authors( some really good) to build a following. I love to write and wouldn't deny that pleasure to anyone,but as you mentioned a poorly written piece of SP hurts us all.
Having said that, I must add that I have seen just the very people to whom I refer as horn tooters form critics groups and offer to review or edit works. No, I say be sure who the gatekeepers are what their real agendas are before bring more of those into the picture. I am talking about a specific area in which there are many artists,poets, and writers so this may not affect others. Remember the world is full of scams and false promises and those wanting to make you "rich and famous: for a price. Don't fall for those no matter how good they sound.

Whether we like it or not, the gatekeepers for self-published authors are readers. I don't think a seal of approval, or lack thereof, is going to change that.

Ken wrote: "Whether we like it or not, the gatekeepers for self-published authors are readers. I don't think a seal of approval, or lack thereof, is going to change that."

I agree with you, partly because too much damage has already been done in that area, and partly because it's far easier and more reliable to browse the opinions of friends and other readers than it is to try to sort out the reputability of any sort of seal or award.

When I speak of the damage already done, I'm referring to previous attempts at "seals of approval", pay-to-win / hire-us-to-enter "contests", etc. It's not that there aren't legit sites and systems out there, it's just too much trouble to for most readers bother.

Ken, you're almost right.
But you neglect something we all know about and seek shamelessly: reviews.
I get any number of comments from Amazon that 'so-and-so read your review and found it useful'. By extension, knowing something of what prospective buyers do, a lot looked at my reviews, considered what I had to say, but looked at a few others too. And never got Amazon's attention by pushing that button. Essentially, telling Amazon they liked a review is akin to writing a review themselves, just with less effort.
Increasingly, reviewers may be considered the 'gatekeepers'.
We're a self-selected lot, by and large, those of us who don't charge for reviews. And each of us takes a different approach.
I try not to post a review of a new novel that's only worth 1 or 2 stars. Let someone else bash that author. I've walked in his or her shoes, so I choose not to do it. Established authors who don't maintain standards, those are worth a 1 or 2 star review.
Instead, since I'm using my own name, the one I publish books under, I try to review only the books that I consider worthy of a 4 or 5 star review. The review becomes part of my brand, Jack L Knapp. If that prospective book buyer chooses to wonder who this guy is, this critic, maybe...
Very unlikely, but still, it could happen.
So: to sum up, I'm a gatekeeper too. I buy books, read them, review many of them. At the same time, I'm a writer who's hoping to sell my books.
I don't exactly straddle the fence, but one leg is on one side while the other is on...well, the other side. :D

Christa wrote: "When I speak of the damage already done, I'm referring to previous attempts at "seals of approval", pay-to-win / hire-us-to-enter "contests", etc. It's not that there aren't legit sites and systems out there, it's just too much trouble to for most readers bother. "

Absolutely. It seems like a new one pops up every day. Readers have learned to ignore them. I feel bad for authors who spend hundreds of dollars on these "awards," but we all need to do our homework.

I do think that reviews help tremendously in weeding through the unruly mess of quality-uncontrolled self-published works. I'm not sure that it is the same as "gate-keeping" however. I have as many reviews, and as many positive ratings, as some famous traditionally published authors. That encourages others to buy my books, true; however, it does not make me famous, or make others AWARE of my books in the first place.

Jack wrote: "Ken, you're almost right.
But you neglect something we all know about and seek shamelessly: reviews.
I get any number of comments from Amazon that 'so-and-so read your review and found it useful'. ..."

Jack, that's precisely what I meant by readers being the gatekeepers. Reviews are, first and foremost, by readers for other readers. And I would hope that all authors are readers, too.

About reviews:
My own standard is to review a book if it really impresses me. I might occasionally review a book that shows promise in some way, but if the book is ho-hum, I move on to another one without reviewing it.
Some books have dozens of reviews with high average scores. I now wonder if some of those reviews and the scores are 'paid'. If so, the 'gatekeeper' aspect of reader reviews has been corrupted and will probably never be completely-trusted again.
I have 5 novels for sale now; the most recent has never gotten a review, even though I think it's one of my best. As for the others, they have either 4 or 5 reviews, with averages of 4.5 or so. None of the reviews has been lower than a 4, which is gratifying.
Less gratifying is the number of reviews garnered. If only 4 or 5 people liked the book well enough to review it, that says something. They were impressed enough not to return the book but not impressed enough to review it.
As a consequence, rather than pushing to sell more copies of Combat Wizard as an example, I went back and did a major revision, cutting a lot of wonderful prose and tossing it in the trash. Sigh. My words, my words! But the new version moves a lot faster. That was my intent; now to see if readers feel the same way.
But while working on that revision, I also felt the creative urge; I wrote a novella, Hands, and published it yesterday. I doubt it will appeal to a large audience (I wrote in forsoothly style, a version of Elizabethan that doubtless offended the ghost of Shakespeare no end), but I had fun writing it while grinding away at CW.
We don't want to write 'bad' books, but then we also don't want to write 'blah' books either!

The authors themselves I think. Only the determined ones would continue to crawl up the mountain. While readers would give it a push every now and then.

Jack wrote: "Some books have dozens of reviews with high average scores. I now wonder if some of those reviews and the scores are 'paid'. If so, the 'gatekeeper' aspect of reader reviews has been corrupted and will probably never be completely-trusted again."

To a point, yes, but the value of sites like Goodreads over retail sites is that the reader is able to friend or follow like-minded readers so that they can "curate" a selection of trusted reviews in their preferred genres. Yes, it takes a bit of effort, but it's less arduous than slogging through bad books.

People are also becoming more and more aware of the corruption you speak of, and while it can and does make some distrustful, they don't stop reading as a result, right? Of course not. So they adapt. They start to refine further to weed out the suspicious reviews, or they simply look for the signs of a fake review. It can also make them more likely to call out the bad books to combat the overly-positive skew that some books seem to have (but not necessarily deserve).

Or, they go back to traditionally-published books. Sometimes in some genres only (like I did) or completely. It happens.

There will always be asshat authors gaming the system. That's been the case as long as bestseller lists have been around, it's not new. There are just more of them now. The best way an author can combat it is by not being an asshat and never giving readers a reason to think they might be. The internet never forgets.

Done carefully, your approach would be helpful, Christa.
But Goodreads is only as good as it's members, and some of them are trolls and exploiters.
Consider the 'free giveaway' that's pushed as a way to get books to readers in the hope that they'll do reviews. It's expensive for the author, and as has been documented in discussions on the forums here, few reviews and fewer sales happen that result from the freebies. Instead, those free books are RESOLD, with the money going not to the author but to the reseller/exploiter.
In essence, Goodreads to them is simply a way of making a dishonest buck. They exploit the site as well as the author in question.
The only tried-and-true method I know of for an author to raise himself/herself above the pack is to write something that goes viral (good luck with influencing THAT!) by appealing to an enormous audience, or to write a LOT of books so that someone who finds one will be led to the others. I've read that the break-even point for this to happen is ten novels, and then only if they appeal to readers. But more is better.
Meantime, if your novels don't appeal, you're spinning your wheels. But how to know?
I don't. I've got fan letters, letters telling me the reader liked the old version of my first novel so they wouldn't bother downloading the newer version (which is free), all this, but yet sales are just ticking along, an average of somewhere between one and two per day during most months. Freebie MOBI ebooks actually REDUCED that number; the Countdown Deals work much better for me.
So I'll follow my own advice and begin novel 6 today. And keep plugging; maybe one of the first five will go viral this week? Or this month? Or I'll find myself one of those 'most popular authors' on Amazon and earn a quick $25 000?
Hey, I'm an author, therefore an optimist!

In short, my answer to this question of who keeps the gate to quality literature…is “*money.”

*Tiny disclaimer: The bizarre thing about literature is that what you see depends on the genre you’re looking at. I’m an author who writes middle-grade fiction, and I’ve found my experiences to be WAY different than the adult spy-thriller author’s or the YA romance author’s. Let me stress that you CAN’T interpret one genre via another.*

For my genre, the Old Ways still stand. The big guys like Scholastic and AR are the ones who tell the readers (or their parents/teachers) what they’re going to read. Independent authors don’t even come close to making a dent in this reading bucket. And I don't think that'll change any time soon.

But for other genres, this is a different story. Money is the main moving factor in that it’s major marketing that gets word out about a book, and marketing takes (and yeah, it’s painful) money. If your book isn’t marketed, it can’t have an approved “quality”. Other than that, I have to say that there isn’t any real quality assurance, that there probably won’t ever be, and I’m not sure the general reader even cares. If you do, you stick to shopping with the big publishers and skip the indies.

As for a “seal of approval,” that would created by an individual’s (or perhaps a group’s) standards—and how is that different than the Big Bad Publishers dictating what qualifies as literature? I think that’s why those who like independents go the way they do: they don’t want to be told what they have to like reading.

Jack pointed out the folly of giveaways here on GR. I agree that those are an experience with frequently iffy results. But while they don’t always gain you reviews, they at least make your book a little more noticeable by putting it on a list that lots of people see. If no one sees your book, they sure can’t give it a review. I don’t want to get off topic, so I’m posting another topic about reviewing lame books here.

I would not pay for a review and feel it is unethical. I have 14 reviews which is not alot but they are all between 4 and 5 stars. I also did a revision : but more than that I think getting the word out about your book is primary to getting a good review. How on earth is anyone going to give you a review if they don't know it exists. That is a problem for many authors. If you are a well know author that is not a problem.

Getting the word out: finally, I have a sort of plan.
I've scheduled my five novels for Amazon's Kindle Countdown Deals. I can run one every two or three weeks, mention them on Facebook (I doubt my limited exposure on Twitter would have any effect at all), list them on my blog, maybe even on my Facebook groups. I can continue this approach virtually indefinitely, repeating that countdown for the first book as soon as the last book has gone through the process.
I may expand my presence on other social media sites, but the only place I have a reputation, even a limited one, is Facebook. That's just the way it is.
The worst thing about my books in terms of marketability is the cover; only two of them are 'grabby', and one is the short story 'Ants', while the other is Hands, my novella. Neither of those enjoy wide appeal because of length or style of writing I chose to use.
But at least it's a plan.
Meantime, I am now working on novel 6 and I hope to have it finished by Christmas.
Writing more novels is also part of that long-term plan.

Indeed, Nancy; and thanks for the good suggestions.