Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This thread is for discussion of our October 2014 New School Read, The Secret Garden.

Having trouble finding a copy? You can download free copies of this book from Amazon or from Project Gutenberg! If you prefer audiobooks, several free recordings of this book are available from LibriVox here.

A thread for discussion of the various film adaptations of this novel can be found here. Beware, you may encounter spoilers!

Many thanks to Hana for offering to lead our discussion this month!

The Secret Garden was first published in serial form beginning in 1910. It is a book about children, but it is not just a children's book.

Frances Hodgson Burnett uses the novel to explore the themes of mental and physical damage and healing. In contrast to the traditional Victorian literary trope of angelic children, several of the protagonists in The Secret Garden are extremely unlikable; yet despite, or even because of their flaws, they are able to heal others--and themselves.

Keep an eye out for sources of damage and sources of healing. What are Mary's flaws? How did she get so warped? Are their any early signs of hope?

Several motifs run throughout The Secret Garden:

Abandonment and dislocation
Loneliness and the need for companionship
Secrets--people and things hidden away
Power--its uses and abuses
Magic, mysteriousness and spirituality
Nature as a source of healing
Common sense vs. 'book learning'

The Secret Garden opens in India in the days of the British Raj. Indian objects, native beliefs and customs, the life of British colonials in India, and Indian Rajahs appear repeatedly.

Both positive and negative views of India are explored, but it seems to me that on balance most of the critical views are of the British Raj, rather than India itself, and in this respect the book is well ahead of its time.

Mary seems to have absorbed some of the least admirable characteristics of the British ruling class. What lessons does Mary learn in India? What does this say about how the experience of ruling India damages the British? What insights do we get into the British ruling class from Mary's mother, from the scenes and characters in the first chapter?

Is the message that India is unhealthy--or is India unhealthy for the British? Why?

This thread is open for discussion of Chapters One-Three:

Chapter One: There is No One Left
Chapter Two: Mistress Mary Quite Contrary
Chapter Three: Across the Moor

In these three chapters we learn about Mary's life in India, her parents, and the sudden horrors that change her life forever. Then the scene shifts to England and Mary's first impressions.

This is a useful SparkNotes entry. The page on this link discusses Burnett's life and there are links to helpful chapter reviews: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/secretg...

In The Picture of Dorian Gray Oscar Wilde writes: “I have grown to love secrecy. It seems to be the one thing that can make modern life mysterious or marvelous to us. The commonest thing is delightful if only one hides it.” Is this true for Mary? And for us?

I agree, about the pleasure of secrets! Keeping special secrets becomes a wonderful thing later on, but in these early chapters, secrecy seems malevolent to me. Mary herself is a secret--a child deliberately hidden away, then abandoned, forgotten by everyone. One of the officers who find Mary after the epidemic says "It is the child no one ever saw..."

Mrs. Medlock says of Mr. Archibald Craven: "He won't see people. Most of the time he goes away, and when he is at Misselthwaite he shuts himself up in the West Wing and won't let any one but Pitcher see him." Yet another hidden, secret person.

And Mrs. Medlock warns Mary "...when you're in the house don't go wandering and poking about." The house itself is a hidden, secret place.

I'm so glad you are enjoying it, Mary!

Mary, I agree completely. Mary Lennox is in desperate need of friendship, but she has no idea how to make friends and at this point I'm not sure she realizes her need.

I'm adding some pictures from the 1949 Lippincott edition, illustrated by Nora S. Unwin. Sadly, this version has been out of print since at least the mid-1950s. I think Unwin does a really good job capturing Mary Lennox's personality and I love the period details.

"Mary sat in her corner of the railway carriage and looked plain and fretful....she had folded her thin little black-gloved hands in her lap....'A more marred-looking young one I never saw in my life,' Mrs. Medlock thought."

I've just completed this section. I like the short chapters. Even if a book is long, I feel as if I'm making progress when the chapters are short.

I'm enjoying the book. The author makes an interesting beginning and makes the reader want to know what comes next.

This is a fist time read for me. The only movie adaptation that I've seen is the one with Maggie Smith as Mrs Matlock. In it, Mary's "reason" for being sent to her uncle differs from that in the book (I won't elaborate in case anyone here has not seen that adaptation).

On a stranger note, I just completed Frankenstein, I think that both the "creature" from that book and Mary in this one are
"disagreeable" because they have never had any love, sympathy or understanding from another person. In a way, they are both "outsiders."

I know this idea is way out there! But I just completed Frankenstein a couple of hours ago :).

@Mary

Thanks for the feedback! I thought I was wacky for making that connection.

I read your earlier post where you mentioned reading on your computer. If you have a smartphone, there may be a kindle app. I don't own a kindle reader, but I am reading via the kindle app on my iPhone. There is a kindle app for the android as well. If you have a smartphone of some kind, check your App Store for the kindle app.

Good read so far. Just joined you in the reading. Great group comments.

Welcome, Andrea and Kathy!

Andrea, I love your Frankenstein connection. That's a classic that I really must read. Its so true that Mary's contrary nature comes from the fact that she's never been loved or even understood by anyone.

Is there also be a connection with power? Mary is a child of the ruling class in the British Raj and so she has been allowed a great deal of power over her Ayah and other servants. She's not been loved, but she's also never had a check on her behavior.

;) Or at least someone very destructive and unpleasant, which is why the next chapters seem so miraculous! Have you got your paper copy yet, Mary? Which edition are you reading?

I think the Scholastic edition is unabridged. It doesn't have illustrations, but you'll have all the lovely illustrations from that out-of-print Nora Unwin edition that I'm uploading :)

Mary, on your spoiler comment--that whole business of having servants always do what you want recurs several times later in the book and FHB clearly sees this as a very damaging thing.

I adore "The Secret Garden." It is one I read many years ago when I was younger, and I have re-read it several times since. I can't wait to read it aloud to my children!

I didn't have anything read to me when I was little, so missed out on many children's classics. I wonder, too, what I would have thought of this when I was a child, as I was somewhat alone but surrounded by nature. I think I would have felt quite a connection with Mary.

I just finished the first three chapters and think it is delightful. Although the situation for Mary at this point is sad, I can see how the book could be read out loud to children. Poor Mary, what will life be like for her in this forbidding place. It's hard to imagine how it can help her disposition.

I had no idea that this was where the little rhyme we used to say came from. "Mary, Mary, quite contrary, how does your garden grow?"

I just finished chapter fifteen. You're right Susan, it is a delightful story. I'm actually a little surprise that my library had it shelved for readers in grades four to six. I can see grade six, but four, I'm not so sure.

I also had no idea that that nursery rhyme came from this story! How cool it was to happen upon it! :)

I don't have kids and I taught high school, so I'm not a good judge of the reading levels of younger children. I do think that the Yorkshire accent would make it more difficult though.

Susan wrote: "I don't have kids and I taught high school, so I'm not a good judge of the reading levels of younger children. I do think that the Yorkshire accent would make it more difficult though."

I'll say! I'm having a wee bit of trouble myself! :)

I just finished Chapter 3 and really enjoying this reread. I had an abridged/adapted version on cassette that I listened to a lot when I was younger—pretty sure it's in a box around here somewhere. I do know that the India scenes went totally over my head at the time; I had no knowledge of that part of British history, being from the States myself.

Ellen wrote: "I just finished Chapter 3 and really enjoying this reread. I had an abridged/adapted version on cassette that I listened to a lot when I was younger—pretty sure it's in a box around here somewhere...."

Glad you're enjoying the book as well Ellen! Thanks for your thoughts about reading this book when you were younger!

Susan wrote: "I just finished the first three chapters and think it is delightful. Although the situation for Mary at this point is sad, I can see how the book could be read out loud to children. Poor Mary, what..."

This is not the origin of the rhyme; it's been around for a lot longer. The rhyme might be the inspiration for the book though.

Paula wrote: "Susan wrote: "I just finished the first three chapters and think it is delightful. Although the situation for Mary at this point is sad, I can see how the book could be read out loud to children. P..."

I just googled the nursery rhyme Paula and you're right. It's been around since 1744!

Paula wrote: "This is not the origin of the rhyme; it's been around for a lot longer. The rhyme might be the inspiration for the book though.."

Thanks Paula and Loretta. I don't remember reading the book as a child, but I do remember the rhyme.

Susan wrote: "Paula wrote: "This is not the origin of the rhyme; it's been around for a lot longer. The rhyme might be the inspiration for the book though.."

Thanks Paula and Loretta. I don't remember reading t..."

Susan, I also never read this book as a child! I'm not sure how I missed it considering I started working in the school library in grammar school!

Interesting about the Rhyme! I saw everyone was busy on this so I decided I better get going. Well I haven't been able to put it down. It's so good. I'm on Chapter 15.

Such a queer little book huh? Could they say queer any more? Hee hee.

Sue wrote: "Interesting about the Rhyme! I saw everyone was busy on this so I decided I better get going. Well I haven't been able to put it down. It's so good. I'm on Chapter 15.

Such a queer little book hu..."

I know! Wow! :)

I just noticed that the thread links only go up to Chapter 17. My Kindle and Audio go to Chapter 27. How many chapters do your books have? Also, the link for the one that goes through 17 didn't work for me.

Sue wrote: "I just noticed that the thread links only go up to Chapter 17. My Kindle and Audio go to Chapter 27. How many chapters do your books have? Also, the link for the one that goes through 17 didn't wor..."

I also have 27 chapters. I'm going to try the link.

Sue wrote: "I just noticed that the thread links only go up to Chapter 17. My Kindle and Audio go to Chapter 27. How many chapters do your books have? Also, the link for the one that goes through 17 didn't wor..."

My link only goes to chapter seven.

Loretta wrote: "Sue wrote: "I just noticed that the thread links only go up to Chapter 17. My Kindle and Audio go to Chapter 27. How many chapters do your books have? Also, the link for the one that goes through 1..."

Maybe Susan can set up more later. I don't know how to do folders here. I guess I need to learn : \

Sue wrote: "Loretta wrote: "Sue wrote: "I just noticed that the thread links only go up to Chapter 17. My Kindle and Audio go to Chapter 27. How many chapters do your books have? Also, the link for the one tha..."

Neither do I unfortunately and I've been here longer! :(

Just finished the book! So good!! :)

Here are the other links. Just haven't used them yet.

8-12
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

13-17
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

18-22
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

23-27
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Final thoughts
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Sue, which audio version are you using? I'm curious how the LibriVox ones are, especially with the Yorkshire accent. I remember the narrator of the tape version I had did a great job, but like I said before, that was abridged.

This is the version I have. If you get the free Kindle Book First, Its real cheap. I think I got it for 99 cents.

http://www.audible.com/pd/Classics/Th...

Ooooh! Just found that abridged version on Hoopla. It's narratby Halena Bonham Carter, who I associate with Downton Abbey. :)

That would be cool Ellen. unfortunately, I can't stand to have anything abridged. I hate to wonder what I'm missing.

Yeah. I do prefer the unabridged version, but the other one has nice sentimental value. ;)

Thanks, Sue. I found it through Overdrive (though it's out at the moment.) I have Audible but don't like to splurge my credits. :)

This is our Revisit the Shelf read for February 2021.