SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I don't know if my subject line is accurate or even if these books really belong together, but in reviews each was compared to at least one of the others, so I'd love to see ppl's reactions, y'know, a compare and contrast kind of conversation. Also, what else belongs with them?

Tunnel in the Sky by Robert A. Heinlein
Outland by Dennis E. Taylor
Wildside by Steven Gould
Mastodonia by Clifford D. Simak
Project Mastodon by Clifford D. Simak

Btw, the only ones I've read are the last two, and though they are indeed by the same author the novel is not an expansion of the novelette.

Wildside looks especially interesting to me atm, so I'm esp. curious about that one.

The one I haven’t read is Outland, which looks intriguing. (Is 1300 pages not a typo? Yikes!)

Of the others, I would definitely group them together. They are very much “Man v. Nature” stories with the internecine bickering found among any group of people. I typically don’t find these to be appreciably different from planet colonization or post-apocalypse rebuilding tales, apart from the method of getting to the blank slate planet.

There are also numerous similar books (and TV shows) that do “portal to an Earth populated by non-humans” stories. The Destroyermen books, for instance, where people from our world end up on an Earth populated by intelligent dinosaurs waging a war against civilized giant lemurs. Or the series Sliders, where they hop from one parallel Earth to another.

Trike wrote: "... I typically don’t find these to be appreciably different from planet colonization or post-apocalypse rebuilding tales, apart from the method of getting to the blank slate planet.
..."

Good point. Maybe the ones that take place on an alternate Earth are special because we can explore our own home from an outsider perspective? And we don't have to wonder if there are alien adversaries or whether the natives are sentient?

I mean, I'm a fan of books like Semiosis and The Word for World is Forest but these that take place on Earth just feel different and interesting to me.

Are you looking specifically for an alternate Earth, or will an unpopulated parallel universe do as well?

I’m thinking of Raft by Stephen Baxter, where a human starship has ended up in a universe where gravity is thousands (or maybe millions) of times more powerful. I don’t recall the details, other than that their environment is crashing.

Trike wrote: "The one I haven’t read is Outland, which looks intriguing. (Is 1300 pages not a typo? Yikes!)..."

I read it as an ebook not long ago, so I don't know, but believe it was more like a 300 page book.

Tunnel in the Sky was pretty short, one of RAH's juveniles & either the first or one of the first books of its kind to have a hero who wasn't a WASP. It's hard to tell, but RAH had to slide it by the censors. Starman Jones, another of his juveniles, also deals with an alternate universe, although it's done through a bad transition on a space ship.

I've only read the first of the Destroyermen series. It was pretty good, although I thought it suffered due to all the setup it had to accomplish. I'm hoping the second one will be better. What did you think?

I think the "1, " is a typo

Cheryl wrote: "Good point. Maybe the ones that take place on an alternate Earth are special because we can explore our own home from an outsider perspective? And we don't have to wonder if there are alien adversaries or whether the natives are sentient?
..."

The moral problem of sentient natives is an element of Andre Norton's Star Gate (unrelated to the movie/TV show).

It explores the idea of alternate worlds with alternate histories as a main plot point, including the possibility of finding one in which intelligence never developed, and there are no moral problems in outsiders moving in.

It was published as a juvenile in 1958, and a number of close-to-home implications are not spelled out, although probably evident to any bright teenager (or adult) who opened it: e.g., the taboo on the offspring of inter-species (read inter-racial) marriages in one time-line.

There is a good, but spoiler-laden, entry on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Ga...

My own summary is more thematic, and can be safely skipped, although I've said as little as I could about the details.

(view spoiler)[It opens after the long-lived Star Lords, "benevolent" colonizers from Earth, have decided that in raising to an approximately feudal level the inhabitants of Gorth, the planet they had discovered centuries before, they had meddled too much. Most decide to leave in their starships and look for another new planet to call home, one without intelligent natives. This sets off upheavals in Gorthian society, and so is another form of well-intended meddling.

Another faction tries to build a gate to alternate worlds, hoping to find a Gorth where they will be the only sentient species, and this is the story that is followed. What the self-exiled Star Lords (and some half-Gorthian followers) find on their first attempt is instead their worst nightmare. (hide spoiler)]

Norton left the way open for a sequel, but apparently decided against it.

The Goodreads link will direct you to the Amazon page for the book: back in 2003 (!) I wrote one of the now fourteen reviews. Most are enthusiastic, but there is one which I think missed the point of what was going on, while looking for flashier technology than Norton usually provided. Most of the reviews contain spoilers to one degree or another, including some revelations meant to take the new reader by surprise (although they are probably self-evident to anyone who has read enough other alternate-world stories).

Ty Trike and Ian, those look interesting, but for this topic I'm definitely looking for something at least very Earthlike, *without* sentient natives or ancient ruins. The idea being explored would most likely be "what if humans had not altered our beautiful blue marble" and there wouldn't be a whole lot of colonization or survival adventure.

In this thread I'm looking for those books that are *not* about exo-planet colonization or about post-apocalyptic rebuilding, though there might be some points of intersection as the misplaced humans struggle to make new lives in all three.

Thank you all!

Jim wrote: "I've only read the first of the Destroyermen series. It was pretty good, although I thought it suffered due to all the setup it had to accomplish. I'm hoping the second one will be better. What did you think?"

I did think they got better, but then started sailing in circles.

Cheryl, I did turn up a YA novel called Portal Through the Pond, which might be a contender. It’s the first of the Empty World Series.

Juuuuuuust gonna steal all these titles for my tbr list, thanks guys!

Cheryl wrote: "for this topic I'm definitely looking for something at least very Earthlike, *without* sentient natives or ancient ruins. The idea being explored would most likely be "what if humans had not altered our beautiful blue marble" and there wouldn't be a whole lot of colonization or survival adventure."

Aside from the fact that a “portal” isn’t involved, The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter sounds similar to what you’re talking about here. Humanity discovers the ability to step into parallel earths, most of which appear to be pristine and uninhabited wildernesses. There is some colonization, so it isn’t a perfect fit to what you’re describing, but there are seemingly infinite earths so there are still a lot that remain uncolonized.

I don’t know that I would actually recommend the book to somebody, though. I thought it was a cool premise that was surprisingly boring because it wasn’t executed well.

YouKneeK wrote: ".I don’t know that I would actually recommend the book to somebody, though. I thought it was a cool premise that was surprisingly boring because it wasn’t executed well..."

Yeah, I recall having the same problem with The Long Earth myself. But it belongs on this list anyway, so ty!

Trike wrote: "Cheryl, I did turn up a YA novel called Portal Through the Pond, which might be a contender. It’s the first of the Empty World Series."

Great title, at least... I'll def. look into it!