Fans of Angelfall discussion

Ails wrote: "I agree that Gabriel isn't dead. Remember when the warriors splashed water onto the wounded angels and they were, like, resurrected? Some of them were shot up with bullets. I believe Gabriel is ali..."

totally agree

i just can't think why uriel would keep him alive though, what could he possibly gain from keeping him hostage?

i want gabriel to be alive would be so cool.

Katie wrote: "If Raffe walked outside and saw them what do you think he would do??"

i have no idea, he would probably drag penryn away from beliel lol

I also wonder what Raffe named his sword. Dee-Dum once mentioned that he used to know a guy who owned a sword and he called it the Sword of Light. I know it sounds far-fetched, but could he be referring to Raffe? They're spymasters and everything's possible with them.

Haha can you imagine how furious he would be? What if Beliel shows Penryn do you think if Raffe walked outside she would look at him differently or do you think she would look at him with fear in her eyes?

maybe lightbringer lol god been playing to much wow.

i couldnt imagine raffe being happy about beliel touching his sword :P

if its as bad as beliel claims it to be, aww poor raffe if pernyn does look that way at him will break his heart again.

Polly, maybe Uriel is blackmailing Gabriel with something (?)

Katie, Raffe's going to be SO furious. Remember when he told her "Anybody who ties you to a chair at gunpoint is a bad guy. Do I really need to explain this?" So he'd probably say something like "A demon is a bad guy, Penryn. Do I really need to explain this?" Haha!

I can't even fathom what will be going down on the excerpt. What if he walks out sees what is happening, pushes Penryn away from Raffe and starts yelling at Beliel and try's to explain to Penryn. I mean you would would think Penryn wouldn't listen to Beliel after how he treated Paige but like Pen said in the excerpt she was curious.

yeah, Uriel could be blackmailing Gabriel but with what? Hmm. I can't wait to see Raffes reaction. Do you think Beliel will take Raffes sword from Penryn? I don't know if that is possible but you never know. Hmm.. What if Raffe walks out with his white wings and he grabs his sword and he Is livid and Pen says, " my sword!" And Raffe looks at her and says, "You mean MY sword." And then turns to Beliel and points his sword at Beliel and threatens him. That would be crazy!!

Could Beliel and Raffe are brothers? I mean their hatred for eacother goes deep. Maybe Beliel was good then he fell in love with a daughter of man (or something) then turned into a demon (how ever that works) and Raffe had to "take care of" Beliels daughter of man. And that's why they hate each other so much. Beliel is seeking revenge for what Raffe did to him.

i think the excerpt is at the beginning of the book, just after escaping the new aerie, so i don't think raffe has got his wings back, they are searching for a doctor so they will probably be finding the human doc from wa, the doc prob got off the boat and obi's men were there so im guessing he may be with them?

i hope gabriel is alive, i wonder what michael is doing? uriel mentions hes on one his endless military campaigns across the world, i hope we see michael too.

That will be so sad... :( I can only imagine Raffe sensing this.. :(

Katie wrote: "What if Beliel shows Penryn do you think if Raffe walked outside she would look at him differently or do you think she would look at him with fear in h..."

I've been thinking about this since I read the excerpt. I think she'd fear for her heart, not Raffe. For sure Susan put that scene to cause tension. If Beliel's not just tricking her and really shows her, I think she's going to start guarding her feelings. Maybe even distance herself from Raffe.

Katie wrote: "Could Beliel and Raffe are brothers? I mean their hatred for eacother goes deep. Maybe Beliel was good then he fell in love with a daughter of man (or something) then turned into a demon (how ever ..."

I think it's unlikely that they're brothers but I agree that maybe Beliel was once a good angel. In AF he told Uriel "You’ve turned him (Raffe) into a pariah. Everything he ever believed in, everything he ever said will be the ravings of a demon-winged, fallen angel. I get it more than you’ll ever understand. I’ve lived through it, remember?"

So Beliel is a demon-winged, fallen angel. I wonder if there's more to the "I've lived through it" statement, like, was he an angel who had demon wings sewn onto his back like Raffe? It's really possible he's one of the angels who had broken the rule of not fraternizing with Daughters of Men but maybe instead of being condemned into the pit, Uriel purposely turned him into a demon and use him for angel politics. That, or the demon wings grew naturally onto his back.

Maybe Raffe was his leader (or friend) and he made a promise to him that he wasn't able to keep. It's probably why Beliel called him a liar and betrayer in the excerpt.

I agree with you. That makes a lot of sense.

I cant wait to find out Raffes past. What if Raffes fate is the same as Beliels? Or what if Raffe becomes bad.

I cant wait to find out Raffes past. What if Raffes fate is the same as Beliels? Or what if Raffe becomes bad.

Why wonder what Penryns mom's roll will be.. Lol probably fighting with we rod-poker haha.

I wonder what Penryn's mom's roll will be in End of Days. Hmm probably poke people with her cattle rod. Haha

Katie wrote: "I wonder what Penryn's mom's roll will be in End of Days. Hmm probably poke people with her cattle rod. Haha"

She'd love that! HAHA. She's still a mystery to me. Susan's said a lot of times that Penryn is of human race, but I can't help thinking that maybe her mom's one of the wives (or a descendant). It's possible that she had an angel husband before Penryn's dad.

That's what I was thinking last night. Just because she remembers her dad doesn't mean that was her real dad. Lol

remember the arcticles penyn sees her mum leave out for her,

'killer mom says the devil made me do it'

'mother throws toddlers into bay and watches them drown'

there was others like penryns mum, who must being controlled/influenced by something.

why is something after penryn and paige and those other children they're all connected.

Yes, but I think Penryn's real dad isn't/wasn't the angel one since Susan said she's 100% human. So maybe her mom is just being protective of Penryn and Paige because it doesn't matter to the hellions if they're her kids with the angel or not. She's still one of the wives so they're after her family.

I also have a theory that Paige could be the nephilim and not Penryn. Even before the angel attack, she was a very special kid and she connected to the animals at the zoo at a very young age. But I'm dismissing that theory if Raffe really saw that nephilims were monsters.

Ails wrote: "HurrikanKathrina, I think so too! Beliel also told Paige "No matter how much we love them or how much we do for them. We’re never good enough. We’re the rejects, you and I. The abandoned." Sounds l..."

Yes! I forgot about this!

Okay, so here's my theory about Beliel and Raffe.

Based on what we have so far, I think Beliel once fell in love with a daughter of man, but she was in love with Raffe or at least 'loyal' to him instead. It fits in with what Beliel said in WA "No matter how much we love them or how much we do for them. We’re never good enough..."

He maybe loved her a lot but she wasn't interested, because he 'wasn't good enough'? (this also fits with how Beliel stresses the fact that Raffe is an archangel in the excerpt - 'special enough to win an archangel's love- in a kind of hateful way) instead being interested in Raffe.
Now, in Angelfall, Raffe mentions that 'this kind of ending' (referring to the violent death of the soldiers) happens too often to his companions. She was probably killed by Nephilim/helllions and Beliel hated Raffe for it. Because the girl he loved didn't care for him and spent all her effort on Raffe, just to be killed for it. And Raffe, not being in love with her, didn't take it as hard as Beliel. Therefore, Beliel sees him as "heartless".

The only thing I don't have a theory about is where the "Liar and Betrayer" comes from. I don't know what Beliel means by that.

Woah! Wow that was awesome and I totally agree! Maybe Raffe promised to keep Beliels girl safe and he didn't. Hence the liar and the betrayal could come from Beliels girl falling for Raffe when Raffe said he wouldn't love her. Maybe Beliel thought he did love her because she died.

Am I the only one who thought Obi as an older man in his 40's??

HurrikanKathrina wrote: "Okay, so here's my theory about Beliel and Raffe. Based on what we have so far, I think Beliel once fell in love with a daughter of man, but she n..."

That is a REALLY good theory! Now, maybe Beliel called him a liar and betrayer because he accidentally saw them kissing? Haha! Maybe that human girl kissed Raffe without warning and Beliel misinterpreted the scene. WHAT IF THAT'S THE MEMORY HE'S GOING TO SHOW PEN? Omg!

Just going back to the point of what Pen would do if Raffe's past was truly as bad as Beliel says...I don't think Pen would be afraid of him. She's gotten to know Raffe during their trek in Angelfall, so I believe that she might be disappointed, but I don't think she would be like "Oh my God Raffe! You're scaring me!" about it. Penryn could be described as adaptable. She can adapt to so many situations, even though it might her hurt her a lot, but I do think she won't be too dramatic about it if Raffe's past is, well, really bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that she might shrug it off and change the topic, but she might think about it and try and find a way around it, even if it disappoints her. To me, that's the kind of character she is.

And HurricanKathrina, that theory is amazing! It sounds so good and, you never know, it might even be true, or along those lines in End of Days :)

Katie wrote: "Am I the only one who thought Obi as an older man in his 40's??"

I do! A lot of AF readers imagine him as Obi-Wan from Star Wars bahaha.

How do you guys imagine Beliel?

That was my first thought when we first meet Obi.

Do you guys think Raffe really knows what the real Nephilim looks like? It says in the book that he's been following rumors of the Nephilim and killing hellions for centuries. Did he actually catch and kill some of them? He once said "They (Uriel's abomination) don't look anything like Nephilim." and in a vision PB showed Penryn, an innocent baby Neph was killed by hellions. Did Raffe said it because the baby Neph looked normal?

What if the Nephilims were being killed at an early age so noone could know they're not dangerous at all? What if it's a hoax? What if it's safe for an angel and a human to be together? Maybe some higher rank angels like Uriel wanted Raffe's watchers to be punished for fraternizing with Daughters of Men so they fabricated false information about their children. Come to think of it, it's also a good excuse to send Raffe away while they act on their political machinations.

Woah... I think it's possible. Why was Raffes wings cut off then? What roll does that play??

Angel Fall

Before Raffe and Penryn get captured by Obi's men Raffe tells Penryn he hears two people whispering and later Obi tells Penryn that they were waiting for her, that she was on the look out. Do you think that the two people whispering before Raffe and Pens capture were Dee and Dum??

Ails wrote: "Do you guys think Raffe really knows what the real Nephilim looks like? It says in the book that he's been following rumors of the Nephilim and killing hellions for centuries. Did he actually catch..."

Hmm, interesting thought. I always assumed that he knew "real" Nephilim, because in Angelfall he talks about it like he's seen it personally ("They were abominations... they roamed the earth...") but you are right, in WA the baby Nephilim still appears to be a normal baby. I think that all Nephilim were killed before reaching adulthood, so no one knows if the killing and roaming was just a 'phase' they could outgrow. It's definitely possible and a rather probable solution for the Raffryn problem.

Only thing is, I don't actually think Uriel has any commanding power over Raffe. Gabriel is the only one, I think, and he is, as far as I understood, also the one making all the rules. So, either Gabriel had some plans, or God actually made those rules. We don't know anything about that yet. I hope we'll find out!

Ails wrote: "Katie wrote: "Am I the only one who thought Obi as an older man in his 40's??"

I do! A lot of AF readers imagine him as Obi-Wan from Star Wars bahaha.

How do you guys imagine Beliel?"

For some reason, I thought he was black for a long time, haha :D His skin is actually pale as an egg. I kind of imagine him bulky and massive, but have to remind myself that he's beautiful just like the other angels. Does anyone has an actor suggestion for Beliel? He's a character I have trouble imagining!

Katie wrote: ˝Before Raffe and Penryn get captured by Obi's men Raffe tells Penryn he hears two people whispering...˝

No, I think he was referring to Penryn and himself cause they were whispering and Pen was annoying him.
That's his sense of humor. :)

Oh haha okay, I thought I would ask. That's funny.!

How do you guys think Paige will react to Raffe?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. :)
Well, she already saw him, and she saw that he was fighting side by side with Penryn, not against her so she knows he's a good guy.
I want Paige's POV

I was going to say maybe she thought he was human but remembered he has wings in WA.

I love all the theories about Beliel and his relationship with Raffe. What if Beliel had been one of Raffe's Warriors through Penryn's vision from Pookey - we see a legion of Angels following Raffe into Battle. What if Beliel had been one of those Angels? I bet he fell because he went with a Daughter of Man and perhaps Raffe helped this woman but turned his back on Beliel because he was fallen? There is a passage in WA that says that when his Angels were taken they pleaded with Raffe to save their wives and children? What if Beliel had had a child and that was the neph child that Raffe sacrificed? That would be an ultimate betrayal...... what and this is a big twist - Beliel was the angel husband of Penryn's mum's ancestors? As Susan said Penryn is 100% human but that may account for why she can hold and Angel Sword and possibly why Paige is "special" even if the Girl's father was human so technically they are not Nephili, their mother could have been descended from Nephilim - I don't think anyone has asked Susan if Penryn's mum is 100 percent Human!

Someone should ask Susan this ASAP lol.

Hi hi!
Super late to the party, and definitely off topic.

So I came across this quote:
“Bow down to me Pooky Bear, who has only two other equals in all the worlds.”

Two other equals.
I'm going to take a guess and say that Pooky Bear will have to fight ONE of those in the last book. Possibly the third equal (Gabriel??) will act as a deus ex machina.

Buuuut I still cant think of a decent theory as to WHY Pen is so special and can hold the sword. Well, theories that dont involve her not being human and a descendant of one of the women that had a realtionship with and angel/Nephilim .

Happy Valentine's everyone!

With the two other equals I thought Raffe meant him and now Penryn. But I'm sure now that I think of it he was talking about someone else but who??

I thought that Pooky Bear let Penryn hold the her because she knew she had good intentions to help Raffe when his wings were first cut off. Since then, Pooky Bear trusts her because she knows that she's helping Raffe and is not against him, therefore forming a bond of a friendship of sorts between the two. I don't know, that's how I understood it.
But if that's not it, then I have no idea how Penryn can pick up an angel sword! Dayum, so many questions!

Peeta wrote: "Hi hi! Super late to the party, and definitely off topic. So I came across this quote: “Bow down to me Pooky Bear, who has only two other equals in all the worlds.” Two other equals..."

I think the two other equals are two other archangel's swords. I agree it's possibly Gabriel who has the other one. Or Michael.

As to why Penryn can hold the sword, I've overanalyzed this a lot before but like what Nikita said, maybe it's really just because PB read her intentions and took it as permission asked and given.

Happy Valentine's all!!! :D

COUNTDOWN: ONLY 86 DAYS TO GO UNTIL THE RELEASE OF 'END OF DAYS.'

Woot!

I thought the two other equals were on about two other archangels swords, Uriel is not a warrior and i doubt he has a sword it must be Gabriel and Michael

Polly wrote: "I thought the two other equals were on about two other archangels swords, Uriel is not a warrior and i doubt he has a sword it must be Gabriel and Michael"

Yes it must be Gabriel and Michael. I think it's no coincidence that Penryn mentioned their names in AF:

“Michael, Gabriel, come see this,” I call out behind me as though there are more of us. Michael and Gabriel are the only two angel names I can think of.”

Like a foreshadowing or something.

Agree, I think it's Michael's and Gabriel's swords.

And to the "Why can Pen pick up a sword." What explanation do you guys want? we got one in Angelfall. Raffe is not surprised at all that she can do that. He just says that she must've read Pen's intentions and gave Permission because of that.
There is literally a conversation about why she can hold his sword in AF. I doubt we will get more explanations, as it was already explained.

Polly,

I agree with the foreshadowing. Interestingly, we have heard about Michael and Gabriel, but they have yet to appear in the books.
I have a feeling they will in the last one.