SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I’m done. I think it’s going to take me awhile to gather my thoughts.

(view spoiler)[The ending was brilliant.

But I really wish he had chopped out all that unnecessary stuff with the parade and the diplomacy. I went from being on kind of a “reading high” if you will, with the battle and the rebellion, and then for 80 pages I have to watch the romances fall apart. I skim read half of it and I was still annoyed.

What I would have liked to see:

Battle/Rebellion > The one relevant chapter where Savine finds out she’s a bastard > Stour Nightfall’s coup > King Jezal dies

The ballroom dance and the parade just really blew my patience out the window.

Ultimately I have very mixed feelings about this. The characters did grow on me in the end, especially Rikke and Orso I think.. but the plot was all over the place and the pacing didn’t flow well. (hide spoiler)]

Well, now that you know that Savine
(view spoiler)[was Jezal's daughter, did it shock you?

I gotta tell ya, since I read the previous books, her first scene with Orso really freaked me out, and that continued throughout the book. I was internally screaming (and digitally too, I guess, in my other GR group) OMG THEY HAD THE SAME FATHER OMG HOW COULD GLOKTA LET IT HAPPEN OMG DID NOT HE KNOW (hide spoiler)]

Silvana wrote: "Well, now that you know that Savine"

Haha- I’m actually a little jealous now! (view spoiler)[It did shock me quite a bit I guess- I didn’t see it coming. But I didn’t realize this was something revealed in past books! I wish I had known from the beginning, i think it would have made the reading much more interesting... lol.

On the surface, to me, it just seemed like another romance thrown in. I really need to go back and read the other books. I think I’d have been a lot more forgiving with this one. (hide spoiler)]

I am curious for those that finished:

(view spoiler)[Do we think Bayaz and the Magi are setting Savine up to take the crown from Orso?

What’s strange about it is I’m not sure Orso would even care? If Stour decides to turn on Leo, they will probably need someone strong then Orso to lead, which could be Savine. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "Silvana wrote: "Well, now that you know that Savine"
"

Yes, please, do try First Law trilogy! Though I prefer the standalone(ish) books but the first three books have lots of good stuff as well. Super minor spoiler since it's in the book description

(view spoiler)[Glokta's one of the POVs! And he was delightful. (hide spoiler)]

Silvana wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Silvana wrote: "Well, now that you know that Savine"
"

Yes, please, do try First Law trilogy! Though I prefer the standalone(ish) books but the first three books have lots of good st..."

I’m trying to guess who else might have been in it:

(view spoiler)[Glokta...Shivers?... Scale?...Bayaz?...Dogman? The Dan Brock family (the Old Lion lol?) Vick as a child? Isern I-phails father?

Clover I’m guessing makes an appearance, since everyone calls him a traitor but I have no idea who he was betraying... and then Logan Ninefingers and The Bloody Nine (which I at first thought was a name of a group, but it seems it’s a man whose name begins with The? And who I think I already knew were in it from reading The First Law blurbs... (hide spoiler)]

The First Law trilogy has the following POVs (that you met/heard here):
(view spoiler)[
Glokta
Jezal
Logen Ninefingers AKA The Bloody Nine
Dogman
Ardee
and two others you have not met. Of course with some appearances from some of whom you mentioned. (hide spoiler)]

In the standalones, some of whom you mentioned do have POVs, including (view spoiler)[Shivers, Finree dan Brock .....but we also have Calder, Gorst, Tunny and a few others. (hide spoiler)]

Silvana wrote: "The First Law trilogy has the following POVs (that you met/heard here):

Ahh so (view spoiler)[Ninefingers is the Bloody Nine.. didn’t put that together for some reason.

Who is Ardee? Isn’t that the name Vick or Savine or someone gives during the rebellion? I can’t remember which part I heard it at. (hide spoiler)]

She was (view spoiler)[Savine's mom. (hide spoiler)]

Silvana wrote: "She was [spoilers removed]"

Got it. I do think that is the name (view spoiler)[Savine gave to Broad or some one during the rebellion. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "I am curious for those that finished:..."

(view spoiler)[maybe. Would be a bit hard though. First, Savine might be older but she was born out of wedlock and Orso had the better claim politically and strategically due to his mother. Savine won't be able to claim Orso's mother's city state. Even if Orso died, he still had a sister. And there is another reason I won't spoil.

I agree I also think Orso won't mind at all.... that
is why he wanted Savine to be by his side too, he knew she could do a better job in ruling than him. (hide spoiler)]

I feel like a heel for starting a BR and not finishing the book, but it's almost two weeks in and I'm making no headway with this one. I'm glad Sarah and John and Silvana have had some good discussion about ALH!

I haven't given up on Abercrombie. I own all three of his standalone novels, and maybe one of those might be a better sell at some point. :)

Beth were you not enjoying it? How far did you get? Can I ask what you didn’t like about it?

Sarah wrote: "I am curious for those that finished:..."

(view spoiler)[
Totally possible. At the very least, Bayez can be counted on to keep his options open. Jezal himself (do I need a spoiler within a spoiler?) was a bastard, so it's not like there isn't precedent here. Could Orso's unpopularity at home be a problem?
(hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "Beth were you not enjoying it? How far did you get? Can I ask what you didn’t like about it?"

I think it's because too many characters are introduced at once. There's not enough depth for me to pin sympathy or interest onto any given character until we're jolting along to the next pov.

I fell a little behind, but did finish this afternoon.

(view spoiler)[
Overall, I liked the way that the end rounded out the novel and set up the rest of the series. The conceit has been following the next generation on all these different fronts, and the ending did a nice job of connecting the various character strands together and taking several of these youngsters out from under the wings of their elders and into leading roles for the next book (well, it's hard to say Stour was ever "under the wing" of anyone, but...).

I didn't mind the pace of the ending so much... the character interactions, for me, kept it moving well enough. Not fast by any means, but moving along.

Interesting to think where these characters go from here. Orso and Savine, they certainly can't get together, but it's also hard to see how they can reconcile more generally to form a platonic relationship.

The luster appears to be off Leo for both Rikke and Savine, and anyway Leo seems poised in more ways than one to join up with the anti-establishment lords. But then, despite the title, he's still not totally out from under his mother's wing, especially without a woman of his own generation. Then again, is he being set up for a relationship with his friend Jurand, who's been pining after him all this time? We've got hints that he might actually swing that way, without the self-awareness to realize it.

We're left hanging on the Dogman's fate, but I'd like to think that, of all that generation, he'll manage to stick around the longest. And Glokta--hard to see him going anywhere any time soon.

Stour: he's a right bastard, seems likely as not that he's going to keep his word with Leo, but he's got big ambitions and little scruples. How will Calder deal with this son who no doubt horrifies him? And how about Clover? We see exactly how many scruples he has (none), but it will be interesting to see how he rides this out.
(hide spoiler)]

I still think it is better to read the first trilogy first....

Beth wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Beth were you not enjoying it? How far did you get? Can I ask what you didn’t like about it?"

I think it's because too many characters are introduced at once. There's not enough dept..."

I actually agree. I think that’s why I struggled so much in the beginning. I am going to try and join for The BladeItself next month.

Silvana wrote: "I still think it is better to read the first trilogy first...."

Several of the reviews on the first page say the same thing, but the cover and the first chapters online were so appealing I decided to rebel. Sometimes rebellion works, sometimes it doesn't! ;)

I'm of two minds about joining the group read for the first one. It largely depends on if I finish my current book so as not to be too far behind the curve when it starts on the 15th.

Definitely the politics happening in the parade and diplomacy scenes combined with innuendos and reciprocity of events throughout make this novel both a delight and a trip down memory lane. For someone to read it without the first five books digested would make it appear a bit flat for sure. Reading it without that history is a bit like old friends meeting and talking about old times while their new spouses smile and laugh at all the right places, but don't yet have the context of their partners past.

The audible version by Steven Pacey just made the series come alive for me. His voice acting was incredible. There are few series I feel so enthralled by, and I can't wait for the next one.