Challenge Corner discussion

Among the seminal texts of the 20th century, Nineteen Eighty-Four is a rare work that grows more haunting as its futuristic purgatory becomes more real. Published in 1949, the book offers political satirist George Orwell's nightmarish vision of a totalitarian, bureaucratic world and one poor stiff's attempt to find individuality. The brilliance of the novel is Orwell's prescience of modern life—the ubiquity of television, the distortion of the language—and his ability to construct such a thorough version of hell. Required reading for students since it was published, it ranks among the most terrifying novels ever written.

25% (view spoiler)[
I like this book because Winston was already starting to be a bit rebellious against Big Brother at the beginning of the book. A lot of books use the introduction of another character to "open the eyes" of the MC into seeing what is wrong. Winston already was unhappy with how Oceania was run. (hide spoiler)]

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RESTARTING OCTOBER 3RD, 2019

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50% (view spoiler)[
I am not a huge fan of Julia, but I think she is good for Winston. Her somewhat aloof, live-in-the-moment, attitude isn't what Oceania needs. This totalitarian state needs people who look at the big picture and not just one's own desires. That is the only way things might improve for Oceania's citizens. Perhaps Julia doesn't believe that anyone can actually change anything, and that is why she is only looking at how she can enjoy life. (hide spoiler)]

75% (view spoiler)[
Goldstein's book was probably the most boring part of the book. It was hard to me to get through all those pages. I couldn't actually believe how long it was. It was essentially another book in this book. I don't like Julia all that much, but I understood her falling asleep while Winston was reading.

Also, I couldn't believe that the whole time Mr. Charrington was actually part of the Thought Police and was able to catch Julia and Winston. Although, considering the type of society the Party runs, I really shouldn't have been surprised. (hide spoiler)]

100% (view spoiler)[
The ending always gets me. I find it so sad. They take this character who is so unhappy with London that he is willing to do anything to try and change things. He starts with minor rebellions, such as writing in a diary. Then he moves to having an affair with Julia and later joining the Brotherhood. All of that comes to an end when the Thought Police catch him, and then turn him into a mindless, shell of a man. I just find it really depressing, but it also really makes an impact. 3.5/5 stars. (hide spoiler)]

Well I will say the audio I'm listening to sounds like narration from a silent movie. It's very dry and is not helping at all lol.
Chapters 1-5(view spoiler)[WAR IS PEACE. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. --> That's so scary sounding and disheartening especially given how strongly the people seem to be going along with it. Then again I guess with the threat of disappearing one night and having your existence wiped clean would motivate people to be their best selves. This thought police is horrifying and just wrong. Talk about invasive, but then again is it so different from today's society. Hell there's so much mention of the government listening in through our devices one has to see that us living in some dystopian novel is already part reality. (hide spoiler)]
I am feeling like the writing is a bit choppy, going off on tangents that it's not the easiest for me to follow or stay engaged.

27% (view spoiler)["The great mass of people never had enough food to ear from birth to death. Half of them hadn't even boots on their feet. They worked twelve hours a day, they left school at nine, they slept ten in a room. And at the same time there were very few people, only a few thousands-the capitalists, they were called-who were rich and powerful. They owned everything that there was to own." Sounds scarily familiar! (hide spoiler)]

51% (view spoiler)[Well one has to respect his honesty telling her days ago he wanted to rape and kill her and now wouldn't you know he loves her. Their world is a mess and when she mentioned they weren't actually at war and it was the government dropping the bombs even Winston didn't fully believe her. He sees how bad it is but won't admit how bad it is. (hide spoiler)]

76% (view spoiler)[I guess the only surprising thing about how this is ending is O’Brien being in on it. Guess that’s why the boring length of literature he read from the resistance was just a bullshitted extension on the truths the citizens already knew. (hide spoiler)]

Finished (view spoiler)[ This was really a struggle to get through. Particularly when Winston was reading from the book it was very hard to keep from getting distracted. I don’t think I was necessarily expecting a happy ending but I think I will have preferred if Winston had been killed. I think he would’ve been better off. Because now he’s been re-created reformed into this new person is he even really Winston anymore? (hide spoiler)]

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RESTARTING JULY 1ST, 2020
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Part 1 (view spoiler)[Winston seems me to be an unreliable narrator.

Up until now, the plot line is quite unique and interesting. The idea of B.B. is frankly terrifying and I don't know if I could ever life in such an environment. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2, chapter 8 (view spoiler)[I'm really happy for Winston! He is finding love, like-minded people and a new hope for life. This book doesn't seem all too dark all of a sudden hahaha (hide spoiler)]

Part 3, chapter 2 (view spoiler)[ I'm kind of confused: Winston is being manipulated into becoming brainless but I cannot figure out if O'Brien is really a true believer of the Party and B.B. (hide spoiler)]

Finished (view spoiler)[And the Party wins again, stripping poor Winston of any personality he might have had left.
I really do feel like it was quite impossible for him to escape the Part, other than death. (hide spoiler)]

Part 1 - Chapter 4
(view spoiler)[This book so far is impressing me in so many ways! So Winston doesn't even know when he was born he has a vague assumption when he was born and what age is he right now... All this slogans around Londres is so damn creepy they don't have at all free will and they're been control by this Big Brother and brainwashed too.

Their history is so mixed up with the past they no longer know what is true anymore so just keep believing what medias published even when these are being controlled and change.

This is amazing. (hide spoiler)]

@Massiel It's scary to think how easily they did it as well!

Isabel wrote: "@Massiel It's scary to think how easily they did it as well!"

IKR??? I was shocked when (view spoiler)[Winston said he changes everything on the newspaper. So nothing is true at all! (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 1
(view spoiler)[This is getting way more creepy and better the more I read. Winston was married but everything about it felt more like an obligation than actually love like marriage is an honor and duty just to make happy Big Brother... What the heck? And having children too? Now I realize in the whole book there are almost none description of older people almost everyone is young so is like they swept the ones who knew the past and all those missing persons... Just wow.

I love the fact that nothing is "illegal" in the whole book but if you do it they can punish you because of it also the way Winston is rebelling is so unnerving, he is no longer going to watch the executions but writing in his diary is just another level. I wanna know what he would do. (hide spoiler)]

Isabel wrote: "Part 1 [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Me neither! But I don't know the more I read this book the more I remember the world we are living in. (hide spoiler)]

Isabel wrote: "Part 2, chapter 8 [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[But it was really creepy how he went all "I was thinking to raped and killing you" to Julia and everything about her seems fishy I think she is a spy. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 9
(view spoiler)[So now everything makes more sense I'm so glad we know how truly this new world began is still messed up Big Brother can controls everything and I think Julia isn't truly rebelling when Winston started to explain how everything was changed Julia didn't bother at all is like she doesn't have an opinion at all but only doesn't like where she lives. Everything seems fishy with Julia I'm still a little stunned they are in love so quickly.

O'Brien's ideals remind me of war, they want to overthrown Big Brother but I want to know how they are going to do it and if really Winston and Julia are all in for it.

I also liked Winston told more about his past, is a nice contrast about how was everything in the beginning. (hide spoiler)]

— Massiel wrote: "Part 2 - Chapter 1
This is getting way more creepy and better the more I read. Winston was married but everything about it felt more like an obligation than actually love like marriage is an honor ..."

(view spoiler)[i never thought of the elderly but now that you bring it up, i feel almost stupid for not noticing it!
I'm also beyond shocked when it comes to the matrimonial obligations of Winston (hide spoiler)]

— Massiel wrote: "Part 2 - Chapter 9
So now everything makes more sense I'm so glad we know how truly this new world began is still messed up Big Brother can controls everything and I think Julia isn't truly rebelli..."

yeah, it did feel like puppy love to me as well, so disillusioned

@Isabel: (view spoiler)[I was really shocked when I read everything Winston did through his marriage and all those obligations... it felt so outrageous.

Winston and Julia... I don't know I didn't like how that happen it didn't make sense and Julia doesn't seem to play like part in the whole book just there with Winston. (hide spoiler)]

Isabel wrote: "Part 3, chapter 2 [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Same!! I'm so confused right now! (hide spoiler)]

Part 3 - Chapter 3
(view spoiler)[I knew Julia was useless! She just like thinking about rebelling but betrayed Winston at once. I'm so surprised O'Brien is behind all this but I don't know if he is a true believer of the Party or Big Brother and also the way he is manipulating Winston... Wow.

I can't actually believe O'Brien is brainwashing Winston... Winston is the only one who was truly rebelling and having doubts about everything, he will just be another brainwash civilian of this new world. This is sad. (hide spoiler)]

Isabel wrote: "Finished [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[This was so sad... God. (hide spoiler)]

Finished
(view spoiler)[I can't believe Winston was so brainwashed and hurt he become another civilian being controlled by Big Brother or O'Brien in this case... This is too sad. I don't have at all words to describe anything about these last chapters but this book is truly amazing. (hide spoiler)]

— Massiel wrote: "Part 3 - Chapter 3
I knew Julia was useless! She just like thinking about rebelling but betrayed Winston at once. I'm so surprised O'Brien is behind all this but I don't know if he is a true believ..."

(view spoiler)[O'Brien is infect your best rat possible, he plays his role of the member of the 'Brotherhood' so darn convincingly, doesn't he? (hide spoiler)]

did you like the novel in its whole though? I loved it!

Isabel wrote: "did you like the novel in its whole though? I loved it!"

I loved it! Is my first 5 stars in a long time I was getting tired of reading so many bad books but it was so sad the last chapters I couldn't bring myself to enjoy but totally loved it.

Isabel wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I didn't expected it to be honest I was shocked. (hide spoiler)]

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RESTARTING NOVEMBER 8TH, 2020

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Part 1 - Chapter 1 (view spoiler)[ It's frightening just to imagine living on a place like that, being constantly watched and controlled. I'm curious to know what Winston will do and what is going to happen in this story. (hide spoiler)]

Part 1 - Chapter 4 (view spoiler)[ This chapter was set only on Winton's work, but it showed and explained so much. To think they have a whole "office" to manipulate books, newspapers, even movies and songs is so creepy. But I honestly can make so many parallels with real life nowadays. They even make it seem like someone they killed never existed. They also manipulate the poorest people by making their own "enterteinment" set of things. This book may be old, but all the criticism in it is timeless. (hide spoiler)]

Part 1 - Chapter 8 (view spoiler)[ Winston is heading towards a dangerous direction in this world he lives in, but I hope he'll be able to bring at least some change. It's so hard to tell in a story like this, though, because you can't predict what's going to happen. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[ Winston has some weird thoughts sometimes, like when he admited to Julia he thought about raping and then killing her. These people live on edge all the time, because they live in such a suppressed society that they don't have any moment to vent. (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 - Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[ I wasn't expecting Charrington to be one of them, it really caught off guard, but I guess they are one step ahead every time. Julia is kind of a weird character, because at the same she is rebellious and likes doing things dangerously, she doesn't really want this regime to end. It's like she knows how shitty things are, but she's satisfied with only breaking some rules - that aren't really rules, but could get you killed anyway. I'm curious to know how this is going to end now that they got caught. (hide spoiler)]

Finished (view spoiler)[ I think there's two possibilities for the ending, one being that they brainwashed him and let him go (which I highly doubt, because they're goal was to make him believe in the Party and then kill him), and the second one (which is the one I believe) is that they brainwashed him, all that scenes on the last chapter where he was at the café, then meeting Julia and all, just happened in his head and they actually killed him the way he thought he would. But either way, definetely died in the end. This book was so impactful to me, not so much for the characters, but the world aroung them, everything that happened and the government, they're all part of a dystopian world, but so many things have a lot of similarities with stuff we go through in real life to this day. The ending is sad and hopeless, but I understand why the author chose it. Winston was just one man, he wasn't capable of bringing a whole Party - full of dangerous and powerful people - down by himself. This is a very important book! Yes, there are some boring parts - like the book one - and other parts are hard to get through, but overall this is a book that everyone should read least once. (hide spoiler)]

Oh, you guys enticed me into rereading this one for the 57th time, probably :)

(view spoiler)[The funny thing is this book was not thought up as a manual. Yet it is being implemented.

Social networks, sites, even Alexa watch us. The perversion of mass media worldwide that we see is, well, precisely the stuff the Ministry of Truth would've loved to do.
(hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Q: You don't grasp the beauty of the destruction of words. Do you know that Newspeak is the only language in the world whose vocabulary gets smaller every year? ... Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. ... (c) Yeah, you can't think of a crime so you can't plan for it? Interesting. What else would one be unable to think of? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Isn't it funny that basically it's China, Europe and the US that are intermittently warring in here? Why isn't the USSR in here? Did Orwell know smth? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[They must have lots of sex problems in here, what with the 'Junior Anti-Sex League' and 'Pornosec' where only unmarried gals are fit to work at. Lots of fun.
A good thing Winston and Julia at least had a go at it before getting 'Miniluved' out of their sweet brains. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Frankly, I don't get the protest here. Basically, what did they do? Have some sex, stroll about the city for a bit, read some books, write some diaries, talk some talk? They never walked the walk or anything, so.... (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Rats... horrible stuff.
Well, too bad that W. and J. did not follow up on their everything. Wouldn't it have been a hoot if they got out and decided to do a repeat performance? Even with J.'s extra weight and all the trauma they both got?
Or maybe if they actually did smth useful, like actually doing smth anti-regime? Too bad nothing like this happened. (hide spoiler)]