The Book Vipers discussion

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Things to consider:
1. Did you like the book?
2. Did you like or dislike the main characters?
3. Do the characters develop?
4. What did you think of the plot and the ending of the story?
5. Do you have any particular favourite quotes or scenes?
6. Would you read anything else by this author?

Felix is a total scoundrel! I'm really liking Roger because he is such a gentleman. Lady Carbury- get a life. I'm going to read more tonight.

Almost finished.

I'm a third in and I like it much more than I expected (not sure why I didn't). Whilst I think the language is not quite a brilliant as Dickens and some of the characters and place settings could be described better, it is brutally honest and more "realistic" than Dickens. People's good and bad sides are shown equally and their struggles are really well described. At the moment, I have no idea how it is going to end, although I see an ENRON developing. This is what I like best about it, the topic and people with their motives could just as well be in a 21st Century novel. Clearly we have not learned much. Would be interesting to see what others think.

It is an astounding book to my mind. I am sure I wrote a review when I read it but i can't find it. Anyway, in there somewhere I also said about how it translates into present day. Uncanny in its relevance. Human nature doesn't change!

Halfway through now, and enjoying it so much. The great elopement of Sir Felix and Marie Melmotte has just failed to happen, and Melmotte himself is becoming ever more unbearable and arrogant. Yes, it is fascinating how relevant it still is today, both in the study of character and of politics/business/the press etc. And all the social/class distinctions are so well observed too.

I'm also in the middle now and am a qualified but great fan of Mrs Hurtle- my kind a girl. I loved it how she told Montague what a whimp he was. I really hope she and Ruby find their independence; maybe that is too much to ask of a Victorian Novel, but this book is so much more "real" than any of that period I have read. Really becoming a Trollope fan. Will read more. I wished I had more time to read faster.

Gisela wrote: "I'm also in the middle now and am a qualified but great fan of Mrs Hurtle- my kind a girl. I loved it how she told Montague what a whimp he was. I really hope she and Ruby find their independence..."

I'm with you Gisela - much as I love Dickens, he often creates wishy-washy female characters that have me tearing my hair out - Trollope has some interesting and spirited women (allowing for the period, as you say)

Rooting for Marie Malmotte at the moment - another blucky Victorian female in the making. Just read what happened at the party. Whilst Mr Malmotte is clearly awful, again I can't help preferring him to all those upper class snobs.

I have a lot of sympathy for Marie and for Hetta Carbury too, both stuck between awful parents trying to use them for marriage bargains and feckless or weak men. I was hoping they might get together and go off into the sunset with Marie's money like Thelma & Louisa, but I've only got 5 chapters to go now and sadly it doesn't like that's going to happen.

Cathy wrote: "I have a lot of sympathy for Marie and for Hetta Carbury too, both stuck between awful parents trying to use them for marriage bargains and feckless or weak men. I was hoping they might get togethe..."

That's what I was thinking too. Had hoped that Marie was just going to take the money her dad had put away into her name (again, just like now, wives or other family members of big business guys owning all their private assets) and make a life of her own. Wonder if this money really exists, I guess we will soon see. Just read yesterday Hetta accepting Paul Montague - noooooo. Whilst I don't want her to do the good Victorian girl thing of marrying her cousing, really she can do much better than Paul Montague, who in my eyes is as wet a blacket as they come. Hoping that Mrs Hurdle rails him in after all, as she will know how to make the best use of him and clearly lost all illusions about him. Why she might still want him is a bit beyond me, but at least she is a women rather than a girl.

Finished! Thoroughly enjoyed this. As everyone has commented, the parallels with today are really striking. I think Trollope is brilliant at developing his characters so that even though you think a particular person is awful, in the end they often turn out to have some redeeming feature. Lady Carbury in particular turned out to be much nicer once she was relieved of her dreadful son.

I'm not sure about the resolution of the Hetta/Paul/Mrs Hurtle situation at the end. As you say Gisela, Paul Montague is a bit of a wet blanket and I think it's a case of Victorian romantic ideals winning out here, which is a shame in a way since Trollope is so good at writing strong female characters who don't let the men tell them what to do. Surely if he'd been writing a bit later Hetta might have had more options open to her than just finding a half-decent husband? One of my favourite characters was Marie Melmotte who was completely her own woman by the end of the novel, even though at the beginning she seems like a silly love-struck girl who has been both neglected and spoilt. As for Mrs Hurtle, I felt she was strong enough to survive no matter what, and I don't think that she was really in love with Paul, he was simply a good prospect for her.

I also loved the observation of all the social niceties and snobbery such as which were the best addresses to live in, whether one's footmen wore powder and how people made their money. Trollope certainly doesn't gloss over the double standards of society or the open anti-semitism of the time.

I will definitely read more Trollope after this one!

Cathy wrote: "Finished! Thoroughly enjoyed this. As everyone has commented, the parallels with today are really striking. I think Trollope is brilliant at developing his characters so that even though you think ..."

Finished too. Totally agree with your excellent review. My favourite characters are definately Marie Melmotte (who has grown-up and developed from a girl into a real woman and whom I would love to hear more off) and Mrs Hurtle (who against her very understandable first instincts behaved more than decent to all around). I also was pleasantly surprised by Lady Carbury who, even if you consider how awful and hard-hearted she was sometimes, had an awful life, but who learned her lesson, which is not easy at her age and situation). I had hopes for Dolly as well as Lord Nidderdale, but not sure if anything like a "man" will ever be made out of them. And what had my birth nation done to deserve this English prat of Lord Felix Carbury to have feisted upon them!

Brilliant novel. Also will definately read more Trollope soon, just wonder which one would be best.

Just finished this too. I liked Marie Melmotte (who developed into a really strong character) and Roger Carbury, and found the Ruby Ruggles/John Crump sub plot an amusing diversion. Although I agree Mrs Hurtle showed a lot of decency in the end, I found her continued devotion to Paul Montague ( my least favourite character) quite irritating.

The plot was engrossing, I liked the way Trollope depicted society, the greed and the flaws that made Melmotte's deceit flourish, but I felt the resolution of Melmotte's situation was a bit contrived and out of character. The depiction of the upper classes was fascinating, Trollope really brought out the social distinctions, the plight of women in the marriage market, and the blatant anti-Semitism. Really enjoyed this.